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735 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312106 26-May-2015 15:44
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So as bright as you want? Mount on your handle bars and flick the switch.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312115 26-May-2015 15:52
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Cycles are allowed to have one or two front facing lights.  If only one, it can be flashing or solid.  If two are present, only one can be flashing. 3.3(2) and 3.3(3) Lighting Rule 2004 - http://nzta.thomsonreuters.co.nz/DLEG-NZL-LTSA-T.LTR-32005.pdf 

EDIT - in response to Xile.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1312122 26-May-2015 16:01
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mudguard:
Talkiet:
mudguard: I'd say they're not legal. But then I'm not sure how often or legal a lot of vehicle foglights are either and I see them used plenty.Either way I think it's safer for the cyclist to be seen and occasionally dazzle. People forget about high beam in cars too.


You're wrong. "occasionally dazzle" a driver in charge of a 1-2tonne death hunk of metal? What a totally stupid thing to suggest. The lights being talked about here are usually brighter (and more focussed) than car highbeams.

There's no question here, they are dangerous for on-road

Cheers - N



I'd say no more likely to dazzle than someone leaving their lights on high beam. Same with high powered fog lamps.
Go on a night ride once. You'll learn very quickly to control where your headlamp points. Easy to spot new riders lighting up fellow riders faces when stopped for a chat.

I can't find anything that suggests you can't use as bright lights as you want. Provided you're not using them in a manner that is a hazard. IE mounting them facing oncoming traffic.


I'm a driver and I don't want any cyclist pointing a dangerously powerful light into my eyes at night. It's MUCH worse than highbeams from other cars.

And "using them in a manner that is a hazard"? You mean, like looking into the cabin of an oncoming car with your 5000 Lumen mini-sun?

And it is wrong/illegal to use undipped headlights into oncoming traffic (and in built up areas I think)... Why would anyone think it's acceptable to point dangerously powerful lights straight into the eyes of a driver at night?

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1312128 26-May-2015 16:11
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mudguard:
Talkiet:
mudguard: I'd say they're not legal. But then I'm not sure how often or legal a lot of vehicle foglights are either and I see them used plenty.Either way I think it's safer for the cyclist to be seen and occasionally dazzle. People forget about high beam in cars too.


You're wrong. "occasionally dazzle" a driver in charge of a 1-2tonne death hunk of metal? What a totally stupid thing to suggest. The lights being talked about here are usually brighter (and more focussed) than car highbeams.

There's no question here, they are dangerous for on-road

Cheers - N



I'd say no more likely to dazzle than someone leaving their lights on high beam. Same with high powered fog lamps.
Go on a night ride once. You'll learn very quickly to control where your headlamp points. Easy to spot new riders lighting up fellow riders faces when stopped for a chat.

I can't find anything that suggests you can't use as bright lights as you want. Provided you're not using them in a manner that is a hazard. IE mounting them facing oncoming traffic.


I would say a lot more likley to dazzle having a very focused cree LED in your eyes. Brilliant on tracks, and fine if you mount in in such a way on your bike so it's not line of sight to peoples eyes I would think, but not mounted on your head on the road. 

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1312151 26-May-2015 16:52
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forgive me, what is MTB - some kind of motorbike I assume ?

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  Reply # 1312152 26-May-2015 16:53
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Mountain Bike. 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312154 26-May-2015 16:53
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Talkiet:I'm a driver and I don't want any cyclist pointing a dangerously powerful light into my eyes at night. It's MUCH worse than highbeams from other cars.

And "using them in a manner that is a hazard"? You mean, like looking into the cabin of an oncoming car with your 5000 Lumen mini-sun?

And it is wrong/illegal to use undipped headlights into oncoming traffic (and in built up areas I think)... Why would anyone think it's acceptable to point dangerously powerful lights straight into the eyes of a driver at night?

Cheers - N



I'm a driver too. I drive 60,000k a year. I also mountainbike and have lights though I can't remember using them on the road. I can safely say I've never been dazzled by a cyclist's lights. I am certainly aware of the powerful lights available now.
However I experience very bright car lights much more often than cyclists. Powerful enough to have to fold side mirrors in (from behind) and sometimes bright enough from the front so I can only see the outside painted line. I certainly don't think it's acceptable to point anything at anyone else's eyes. I'm suggesting that cyclists who do direct their headlamps at drivers are only doing so accidently.

NO. I've no idea how many lumens a vehicle puts out.

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  Reply # 1312157 26-May-2015 16:57
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mudguard: [snip]I certainly don't think it's acceptable to point anything at anyone else's eyes. I'm suggesting that cyclists who do direct their headlamps at drivers are only doing so accidently. [snip]


Doesn't make it less dangerous for the motorist. Headlamps that are insane bright are dangerous. Great for trails, great for annoying drivers on the roads. If you think cyclists don't regularly look at cars while on the road then ... well, I don't even understand how smoeone could possibly think that!

Cyclists SHOULD be looking at cars, surely that's part of basic safety / self preservation! Add a stupid bright light on your head that points where you look and. Well, I give up, if you can't see the issue with it then I'm afraid to be on the road with you.

Cheers - N


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312176 26-May-2015 17:22
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Talkiet:
mudguard: [snip]I certainly don't think it's acceptable to point anything at anyone else's eyes. I'm suggesting that cyclists who do direct their headlamps at drivers are only doing so accidently. [snip]


Doesn't make it less dangerous for the motorist. Headlamps that are insane bright are dangerous. Great for trails, great for annoying drivers on the roads. If you think cyclists don't regularly look at cars while on the road then ... well, I don't even understand how smoeone could possibly think that!

Cyclists SHOULD be looking at cars, surely that's part of basic safety / self preservation! Add a stupid bright light on your head that points where you look and. Well, I give up, if you can't see the issue with it then I'm afraid to be on the road with you.

Cheers - N


They look using their eyes? You don't move your whole head. I think there are more important things to legislate than lumen output of bike lights.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312216 26-May-2015 18:42
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surfisup1000:
jfanning: I've had this discussion before, this is from the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Lighting (2004)

Bikes as classed a Class AA, which is in Group A, which must comply with section 3.3

3.3(1) A dipped-beam headlamp on a motor vehicle (other than an unclassified motor vehicle, or a vehicle having a gross vehicle mass exceeding 12,000 kg) must be positioned at a height not exceeding 1.2 m from the ground.



It depends on the definition of vehicle and headlamp.  From what I can tell, the headlamp is on the helmet, not the vehicle (bike).  

Technicalities like this are bread and butter for lawyers. 




If it's on the cyclists helmet then it's definitely a "Head Lamp" :-)

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1312351 26-May-2015 22:42
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From http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/cyclist-code/about-equipment/cycle-equipment.html

Cycle lights
There are many cycle lights on the market – some are designed to help cyclists be seen by other road users during times of low light, and some lights are designed to help cyclists see where they are going, like a headlight. When considering lights it is important to be mindful that:

 

  • Headlights should be attached to handlebars and pointing down.
  • Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1312381 26-May-2015 23:58
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cyberhub: 30 Seconds, that must of been a very bright light.  Perhaps you can get in touch with NZTA and ask them to put a sign up at the end of the track asking riders to turn off or turn down their super bright head lamps.


Yeah some are 5+ Watt Cree LED's, my 3W security torch came with a warning not to shine it in someones eye for an excessive period of time as will cause retinal damage within 20 seconds that's how bright it is and that's just a 3W Cree 
  

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  Reply # 1312423 27-May-2015 05:40
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LEDs also have a high blue content like HID lights, that is more damaging to your night vision than incandesents spectrum from a couple of things I have read.

If its ok for bikes to have a body mounted light thats not covered by regs then I guess that makes it ok for someone in a car to have a 70W HID spotlamp handheld then? no? Of course thats absurd and so is sticking a light to your head pointed at other traffic with no beam cutoff or anything remotely approching somehting acceptable for you to go towards other people with it turned on? A dipped beam or one with a cutoff is still going to make them visible.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1312660 27-May-2015 12:40
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This is synonymous with large SUV's that have their headlights mounted at roughly eye level of someone driving a sedan. Totally legal, but still unpleasant.

What about the awful ones that flash at ~30Hz? This is illegal on a motorcycle, why is it ok on a bicycle?





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  Reply # 1312662 27-May-2015 12:44
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stevenz: What about the awful ones that flash at ~30Hz?



Well PWM is apparantly fine for tail and park lights so I expect that cyclists would get away with annoying flicker too. Ive not seen 30Hz ones - just 8-10ish flashing and a couple of 100Hz flicker.




Richard rich.ms

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