Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
735 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 174


  Reply # 1312875 27-May-2015 16:32
One person supports this post
Send private message

Registration for pushbikes is possibly not the best suggestion. I have 6 mountainbikes, a plate for each of them? Your daughter's pink Huffy?

As I've mentioned before, the law is a bit grey. However I don't think it's a big enough problem for anything to be done. I almost never see riders with offroad headlamps using them on the road. The cyclists I see tend to be more commuters or roadies with numerous low level illumination. Generally if you're riding at night, it is either in urban areas so you don't need the light to see where you're going, rather to let other road users know you're there.
Or, riding in the bush on a mountainbike, where you need the high illumination (it's great fun by the way, feels like you're riding twice as fast). Having said that, those who may be returning from a night ride (as the OP mentioned) should be diligent enough to know that any high powered lights should be pointed down.
Again, riders very quickly learn not to point a headlamp where they shouldn't.

1244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 530


  Reply # 1312899 27-May-2015 16:33
Send private message

Arguable, a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp. The legislation - Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 - states:

11.12 Lighting and reflector requirements for cyclists
   (1)A person must not ride a cycle on a road during the hours of darkness without using a headlamp, reflector, and rearward-facing position lamp.

and had previously defined a headlamp as:
1.6 headlamp,-
   (b)for a cycle, means a lamp that is-
      (i)forward-facing; and
      (ii)sufficiently brilliant to be visible in normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of at least 100m when it is switched on

It would be interesting to test in court, but I would argue that a helmet-mounted light does not constitute a headlamp, as it not (always) forward facing - if the cyclist turns his head to look to the left, the light turns with him. Also the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Lighting 2004 states:

3.2 Safety requirements for headlamps
   (4) The horizontal orientation of a headlamp on a vehicle must, when the vehicle's front wheels are pointing in the straightahead position, ensure that the centre-line of the beam of light emitted from the lamp is projected either parallel to, or to the left of, the longitudinal centre-line of the vehicle.

If a helmet-mounted light was classified as a headlamp, a cyclist who turns his head to the right is automatically in breach of the law, unless he's turning right, as the wheels would not be "pointing in the straightahead position".

So if a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp, what is it? There are 13 types of lamp defined in the Vehicle Lighting 2004 rule, and (without going into every type) there are only two it could be:

 

  • cornering lamp (designed to emit light at the front of the vehicle to supplement a vehicle's headlamps by illuminating the road ahead in the direction of the turn)
    work lamp (a high intensity lamp which is not necessary for the operation of the vehicle but is designed to illuminate a work area or scene).
In both cases, the only requirement relevant to Class AA vehicles (pedal cycles) is: "The light emitted ... must be substantially white or amber." 

 
 
 
 


Hmm, what to write...
1010 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 522

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1312901 27-May-2015 16:35
Send private message

richms:
mdooher:
I looked this up, if the lights are below the level of the headlights and the source of light can be seen they are fog lights and must only be used when it is foggy.


What was the source for that? Its quite common to have them in the lower bumper of the car and seems to make it thru WOFs ok there as DRLs not fogs. Since they dont ask to turn them on and see them go off with the parks coming on.


It used to be in the Road transport (vehicle) rule. It seems to have been redacted and replaced with 'Daylight running lights must turn off when headlights or fog lights turn on'. Makes sense really.

So my understanding now is like yours "If they are on at the same time as the headlights and it is not foggy you are breaking the law" as they are either incorrectly fitted daylight running lights (WOF fail) or you are using your fog lights illegally




Matthew


Hmm, what to write...
1010 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 522

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1312905 27-May-2015 16:42
Send private message

andrew027: Arguable, a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp. The legislation - Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 - states:

11.12 Lighting and reflector requirements for cyclists
   (1)A person must not ride a cycle on a road during the hours of darkness without using a headlamp, reflector, and rearward-facing position lamp.

and had previously defined a headlamp as:
1.6 headlamp,-
   (b)for a cycle, means a lamp that is-
      (i)forward-facing; and
      (ii)sufficiently brilliant to be visible in normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of at least 100m when it is switched on

It would be interesting to test in court, but I would argue that a helmet-mounted light does not constitute a headlamp, as it not (always) forward facing - if the cyclist turns his head to look to the left, the light turns with him. Also the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Lighting 2004 states:

3.2 Safety requirements for headlamps
   (4) The horizontal orientation of a headlamp on a vehicle must, when the vehicle's front wheels are pointing in the straightahead position, ensure that the centre-line of the beam of light emitted from the lamp is projected either parallel to, or to the left of, the longitudinal centre-line of the vehicle.

If a helmet-mounted light was classified as a headlamp, a cyclist who turns his head to the right is automatically in breach of the law, unless he's turning right, as the wheels would not be "pointing in the straightahead position".

So if a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp, what is it? There are 13 types of lamp defined in the Vehicle Lighting 2004 rule, and (without going into every type) there are only two it could be:

 

  • cornering lamp (designed to emit light at the front of the vehicle to supplement a vehicle's headlamps by illuminating the road ahead in the direction of the turn)
    work lamp (a high intensity lamp which is not necessary for the operation of the vehicle but is designed to illuminate a work area or scene).
In both cases, the only requirement relevant to Class AA vehicles (pedal cycles) is: "The light emitted ... must be substantially white or amber." 


but what about this:

 

(2) A person may use a work lamp only—

 

 

     

  •  

    (a) when the vehicle to which it is fitted is stationary or travelling slowly; and

     

 

     

  •  

    (b) to illuminate a work area or scene.

     

So if it is a work lamp it is also being used illegally




Matthew


21987 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4647

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1312909 27-May-2015 16:46
Send private message

Wonder what would cover these lights on a handlebar then? https://learn.adafruit.com/led-bicycle-handlebars/overview




Richard rich.ms

Hmm, what to write...
1010 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 522

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1312912 27-May-2015 16:51
Send private message

richms: Wonder what would cover these lights on a handlebar then? https://learn.adafruit.com/led-bicycle-handlebars/overview


she seems to have a white light visible from the rear...Just because she wants to look like a twat at night as well is no excuse.




Matthew


1710 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 169

Trusted

  Reply # 1312916 27-May-2015 16:55
Send private message

andrew027: Arguable, a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp. The legislation - Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 - states:

11.12 Lighting and reflector requirements for cyclists
   (1)A person must not ride a cycle on a road during the hours of darkness without using a headlamp, reflector, and rearward-facing position lamp.

and had previously defined a headlamp as:
1.6 headlamp,-
   (b)for a cycle, means a lamp that is-
      (i)forward-facing; and
      (ii)sufficiently brilliant to be visible in normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of at least 100m when it is switched on

It would be interesting to test in court, but I would argue that a helmet-mounted light does not constitute a headlamp, as it not (always) forward facing - if the cyclist turns his head to look to the left, the light turns with him. Also the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Lighting 2004 states:

3.2 Safety requirements for headlamps
   (4) The horizontal orientation of a headlamp on a vehicle must, when the vehicle's front wheels are pointing in the straightahead position, ensure that the centre-line of the beam of light emitted from the lamp is projected either parallel to, or to the left of, the longitudinal centre-line of the vehicle.

If a helmet-mounted light was classified as a headlamp, a cyclist who turns his head to the right is automatically in breach of the law, unless he's turning right, as the wheels would not be "pointing in the straightahead position".

So if a helmet-mounted light is not a headlamp, what is it? There are 13 types of lamp defined in the Vehicle Lighting 2004 rule, and (without going into every type) there are only two it could be:

 

  • cornering lamp (designed to emit light at the front of the vehicle to supplement a vehicle's headlamps by illuminating the road ahead in the direction of the turn)
    work lamp (a high intensity lamp which is not necessary for the operation of the vehicle but is designed to illuminate a work area or scene).
In both cases, the only requirement relevant to Class AA vehicles (pedal cycles) is: "The light emitted ... must be substantially white or amber." 



I suspect that the term headlamp is used by NZTA rather than headlight - so I would not take headlamp to mean a lamp on ones head.

353 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 54


  Reply # 1312965 27-May-2015 17:38
Send private message

richms: Thats for a headlight on a bike. Does it forbid person attached lights while riding a bike? I couldnt see anything about that.


Look at the vehicle lighting rules, this lists the heights for lights by vehicle type

1923 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 139


  Reply # 1312971 27-May-2015 17:45
Send private message

I don't understand the fuss about 'bright' fog lights.
In fog you want downward pointing lights, or if they're broad beamed you don't want them over bright. Simply because in fog much of the light is reflected back making your own vision worse.
I suspect many folk use (or have fitted) driving lights, and use them during the day.....or think they're fog lamps.

And back to bikes.
In some countries they do charge registration, it would be good way here to fund better (dedicated) cycleways and enforce proper use.

With bike lights I too detest helmet mounted cree based strobes. But I think the biggest risk to many cyclists at night is actually their poor rear lighting, which is often barely visible (or non existent).

502 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 243


  Reply # 1313165 27-May-2015 22:25
Send private message

oxnsox: I don't understand the fuss about 'bright' fog lights.


Please don't.

Fog lamp means a high intensity lamp designed to aid the driver or other road users in conditions of severely reduced visibility, including fog or snow but not including clear atmospheric conditions under the hours of darkness, and that is:


They fit under different rules than dip beam lamps, and are designed to give off a short, wide beam of light from a low mounted position. I guess they are allowed to point higher than dip beam headlights too.

They are illegal to use in clear weather, and some are really dazzling. Plus if you have the rear ones, it looks like you are breaking all the time.


In terms of bike lights with cheap LED units it's got to a point where flashing high powered lights is a bit risky. I have a handlebar mounted 1000lumen lamp, and I never strobe it at night. I also have a duct tape sheild so it doesn't spill excessive amounts of light high, as it has a round touch pattern of light rather than a car headlight style where the light is spread wide and flat, with a harsh cut off at the top of the beam.

124 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 49


  Reply # 1313166 27-May-2015 22:28
3 people support this post
Send private message

I use one of these bright flashing lights. They are awesome. The reflective stuff on signs and things like road cones all light up brilliantly. It makes the streets look something like Vegas. The thing is, for a motorist to kill a cyclist it is a slap on the wrist offence. Many motorist simply don't care about cyclists. I will prefer to pay a fine for my light than be killed.

502 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 243


  Reply # 1313170 27-May-2015 22:39
One person supports this post
Send private message

I'm a bit concerned about a principal called "Target Fixation" if I use a 1000 Lumen strobe.

It's the thing where a (often drunk) driver crashes into a patrol car that has pulled someone over, as there eyes are drawn to the flashing lights and they steer where they look

In some cases more viable does not equal safer.

 

Target fixation is an attentional phenomenon observed in humans in which an individual becomes so focused on an observed object that their awareness of hazards or obstacles diminishes. The phenomenon is most commonly associated with scenarios in which the observer is in control of a high-speed vehicle or other mode of transportation. In such cases, the observer may fixate so intently on the target that they will not take necessary action to avoid it, thus colliding with it.

 

The phenomenon is common amongst racing drivers,[1] fighter pilots, motorcyclists, mountain bikers, and surfers, amongst others. When individuals target fixate, they are prone to steer in the direction of their gaze, which is often the ultimate cause of a collision.[1] 

 







Hmm, what to write...
1010 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 522

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1313262 28-May-2015 09:15
4 people support this post
Send private message

debo: I use one of these bright flashing lights. They are awesome. The reflective stuff on signs and things like road cones all light up brilliantly. It makes the streets look something like Vegas. The thing is, for a motorist to kill a cyclist it is a slap on the wrist offence. Many motorist simply don't care about cyclists. I will prefer to pay a fine for my light than be killed.


Well I certainly don't care about cyclists that flout the law like you do. You seem to be ignorant of the fact (or don't care) you are causing distractions and confusion to other road users.

If you get run over because of it at least it will get you off the road. If someone else gets run over because of you, I hope... (well, Ill let you guess what I hope)





Matthew


4013 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2709

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 1313271 28-May-2015 09:26
6 people support this post
Send private message

debo: I use one of these bright flashing lights. They are awesome. The reflective stuff on signs and things like road cones all light up brilliantly. It makes the streets look something like Vegas. The thing is, for a motorist to kill a cyclist it is a slap on the wrist offence. Many motorist simply don't care about cyclists. I will prefer to pay a fine for my light than be killed.


What a stupid post. It makes you look like an entitled idiot.

N


353 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 54


  Reply # 1313279 28-May-2015 09:47
One person supports this post
Send private message

oxnsox:
And back to bikes.
In some countries they do charge registration, it would be good way here to fund better (dedicated) cycleways and enforce proper use.

With bike lights I too detest helmet mounted cree based strobes. But I think the biggest risk to many cyclists at night is actually their poor rear lighting, which is often barely visible (or non existent).


What countries charge bicycle registration, and what do they actually use this for?

At the moment my rates fund the roads, as a rate payer why should I pay for a road to be built, and footpaths to be built, and then expected to pay a separate fee for a cycleway?  Also, how would you see this fee being collected?  By the local government?  Central government?   If central, will they just keep it?  It local, what happens when I ride my bike from one town to another?  Will I have to get a day permit to ride in that town?  What if I only ride my bike off road, will I still have to register it?

Also enforcing proper use?  Aren't the police meant to enforce proper use?  Aren't I already paying for them from my taxes?  Shall we also place a burglary levy on all appliances in case you get robbed?

I am really struggling to see how registration of bikes is going to be practical in any measure.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Orcon announces new always-on internet service for Small Business
Posted 18-Apr-2019 10:19


Spark Sport prices for Rugby World Cup 2019 announced
Posted 16-Apr-2019 07:58


2degrees launches new unlimited mobile plan
Posted 15-Apr-2019 09:35


Redgate brings together major industry speakers for SQL in the City Summits
Posted 13-Apr-2019 12:35


Exported honey authenticated on Blockchain
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:19


HPE and Nutanix partner to deliver hybrid cloud as a service
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:12


Southern Cross and ASN sign contract for Southern Cross NEXT
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:09


Data security top New Zealand consumer priority when choosing a bank
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:07


Samsung announces first 8K screens to hit New Zealand
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:03


New cyber-protection and insurance product for businesses launched in APAC
Posted 10-Apr-2019 20:59


Kiwis ensure streaming is never interrupted by opting for uncapped broadband plans
Posted 7-Apr-2019 09:05


DHL Express introduces new MyDHL+ online portal to make shipping easier
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:51


RackWare hybrid cloud platform removes barriers to enterprise cloud adoption
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:50


Top partner named at MYOB High Achievers Awards
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:48


Great ideas start in Gisborne with hackathon event back for another round
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:42



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.