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  # 1323789 13-Jun-2015 07:16
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DonGould:

2.  The "New Zealand Government" administers the whole process.  We have a thing called the "Internet" that can be used to link stuff together.  It's now time that the NZG used the Internet to link their stuff with me in a way that no longer required bits of paper stuck to my car.



They don't have the numberplate recognition vans down your way? Drive past them without up to date little bits of paper and you will get a nice ticket in the mail

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  # 1324790 15-Jun-2015 10:21
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Wade:
DonGould:

2.  The "New Zealand Government" administers the whole process.  We have a thing called the "Internet" that can be used to link stuff together.  It's now time that the NZG used the Internet to link their stuff with me in a way that no longer required bits of paper stuck to my car.



They don't have the numberplate recognition vans down your way? Drive past them without up to date little bits of paper and you will get a nice ticket in the mail


Exactly.  The vehicle doesn't need to have these bits of paper on them, it's already got two large number plates on it which provide more than enough information.






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  # 1324795 15-Jun-2015 10:23
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Sideface:
DonGould: ... With respect to mechanical safety ... I get stuff fixed when it breaks like most normal people.


Too many "normal people" don't.

That's why a WOF is mandatory.


"Normal people" don't here in New Zealand because we have the WOF system, so they just manage their lives based on doing stuff before or when they next have to.

In Australia they don't do WOF, but if your car isn't up to standard the it can get pulled off the road and it costs you a heap to get it back on the road so people do the preventative stuff.

Their country hasn't broken out in civil war as a result.








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  # 1324798 15-Jun-2015 10:25
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Kyanar:
DonGould: 
I should be able to request a simple email be sent if there is a charging problem.  This really is stupidly simple stuff which can be done with FREE software, so there is just no excuse for an organization with the sort of resources that this one has.


You're way oversimplifying it.  It really, really, can't be done with any free software that exists right now (though, build one and see if the NZTA uses it.  I'm actually betting they'd oppose it for no reason other than "but it's not expensive").

However, the label is pretty pointless.  At least two Australian states no longer require registration labels (South Australia and Queensland I know of) except for special permit vehicles, and the world hasn't ended (though if your authority is useless at mailing stuff, you're gonna have a bad time!)


Actually it needs simplification.  It's nothing more than paper pushing to give a small bunch of people a job.  It's needless and needs to be ended.

We need those people working on quality housing out comes in New Zealand, not on stupid unrequired bits of paper on my windscreen.






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  # 1324810 15-Jun-2015 10:40
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So your argument is that pieces of paper are too complicated and we should replace it with a technology heavy solution? Which do you think would cost more? What is the fail state when/if the technology doesn't work? 

You can apply for a new rego online now - it takes 15 minutes and they post it to you. This is something you have to spend 15 minutes doing ONCE A YEAR. This is not onerous.

If you want people working on quality housing - how about they do that rather than messing with a system that works perfectly fine? Adding options for automatic reccurring billing and automatic issuance of new regos is an option sure but all that stuff costs money. It would have to integrate with what I can only assume are a plethora of legacy systems in the backend.

You are vastly oversimplifying what would be involved. Government and vehicle licensing are not small businesses and have very different requirements.




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  # 1324832 15-Jun-2015 10:50
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wasabi2k: So your argument is that pieces of paper are too complicated and we should replace it with a technology heavy solution? 



No.  I'm requesting that they just drop out the unrequired paper.  The rest already exists.



wasabi2k: Which do you think would cost more? What is the fail state when/if the technology doesn't work? 


The computer systems already exist.  Costs would be saved by not having to print paper.


wasabi2k: You can apply for a new rego online now - it takes 15 minutes and they post it to you. This is something you have to spend 15 minutes doing ONCE A YEAR. This is not onerous.


Fully agree. 

The whole process can be done on line, all that needs adding currently for me is an email to remind me it's time to pay my account.



wasabi2k:
If you want people working on quality housing - how about they do that rather than messing with a system that works perfectly fine? Adding options for automatic reccurring billing and automatic issuance of new regos is an option sure but all that stuff costs money. It would have to integrate with what I can only assume are a plethora of legacy systems in the backend.

You are vastly oversimplifying what would be involved. Government and vehicle licensing are not small businesses and have very different requirements.





I agree that all that is needed is an option for automatic reoccurring billing.  That is not an overly complex task.

I can't comment on the back end systems that this would need to be integrated with as I haven't seen them, have you?  Or are you just speculating that it's really complex?







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  # 1324835 15-Jun-2015 10:57
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OK,  I better understand your argument now.

I think those little bits of paper still offer value from a compliance PoV - make doing checkpoints really easy - enabling anyone to check warrant and rego without needing tech. Police clearly have a solution in place for checking that stuff (if they don't have internet connectivity I believe they just call/radio a station to get the info - that's what they do on Motorway Patrol etc).

I think the cost savings for removing them wouldn't be all that amazing - I would also hate to think what an PITA it would be getting legislation changes made for not having to display them anymore. As for the automated billing stuff - probably just a cost-benefit thing.

As far as those backend systems - as I said I was making assumptions.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1324837 15-Jun-2015 11:04
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wasabi2k: I think those little bits of paper still offer value from a compliance PoV - make doing checkpoints really easy - enabling anyone to check warrant and rego without needing tech. Police clearly have a solution in place for checking that stuff (if they don't have internet connectivity I believe they just call/radio a station to get the info - that's what they do on Motorway Patrol etc).


Why do we need check points?

Why do we need to check if my car is registered at a check point?

This is stuff that can just be built into existing CCTV systems to catch compliance.  The technology already exists in the system.

What's more, with technology today you can just pay your registration while you're in the check point queue, and people do.

I don't know about you, but I don't like the police state kind of thinking that exists around this stuff and would like to see it change.

I would sooner have that extra police man that is checking stickers on cars doing something more useful like building better homes.

wasabi2k: I think the cost savings for removing them wouldn't be all that amazing - I would also hate to think what an PITA it would be getting legislation changes made for not having to display them anymore. As for the automated billing stuff - probably just a cost-benefit thing.


I don't know what the savings would be.  I shouldn't imagine it would be hard to calculate if you had access to the right information.


wasabi2k: As far as those backend systems - as I said I was making assumptions.


Have you ever worked with these so called 'complex back end systems' in a government department?  I have, it's really not that complex for people who know what they're doing.  It's the 'people and policy' issues that are generally way more complex and hard to deal with.






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  # 1324882 15-Jun-2015 11:57
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Don't those pointless pieces of paper also have to do with revenue gathering enforcement? I think even lowly parking wardens are empowered to slap you with fines if the pieces of paper on your windscreen are not up to date. This adds a huge network of compliance monitors that the police on their own could never match, regardless of how many checkpoints they set up.





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  # 1324930 15-Jun-2015 12:35
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DonGould:
wasabi2k: I think those little bits of paper still offer value from a compliance PoV - make doing checkpoints really easy - enabling anyone to check warrant and rego without needing tech. Police clearly have a solution in place for checking that stuff (if they don't have internet connectivity I believe they just call/radio a station to get the info - that's what they do on Motorway Patrol etc).


Why do we need check points?


To catch people driving unregistered and un-woffed vehicles, which shouldn't be on the road, at all.


Why do we need to check if my car is registered at a check point?


Same as above. If someone just grabs a car and starts driving it - at what point does it enter the registration system?


This is stuff that can just be built into existing CCTV systems to catch compliance.  The technology already exists in the system.


While AKL has a ton of that, we are a way off nation wide cctv coverage of our road networks, so a point solution sure, but not widespread.


What's more, with technology today you can just pay your registration while you're in the check point queue, and people do.


Clever idea - don't know how many people would be staring at a cellphone tapping away while approaching a police checkpoint, but who knows.


I don't know about you, but I don't like the police state kind of thinking that exists around this stuff and would like to see it change.

I would sooner have that extra police man that is checking stickers on cars doing something more useful like building better homes.


I would rather people are encouraged/compelled to drive cars that are road worthy. While the "traffic cops are wasting time" argument comes up regularly, I would love to see the state of the roads if they just stopped. I think they fulfill an unpopular but necessary role.

As for Police state thinking - I don't follow your reasoning. There are laws, people need to follow them. This means stuff like this gets checked.

wasabi2k: I think the cost savings for removing them wouldn't be all that amazing - I would also hate to think what an PITA it would be getting legislation changes made for not having to display them anymore. As for the automated billing stuff - probably just a cost-benefit thing.


I don't know what the savings would be.  I shouldn't imagine it would be hard to calculate if you had access to the right information.

wasabi2k: As far as those backend systems - as I said I was making assumptions.

Have you ever worked with these so called 'complex back end systems' in a government department?  I have, it's really not that complex for people who know what they're doing.  It's the 'people and policy' issues that are generally way more complex and hard to deal with.


In government no, but plenty at scale in a number of corporates. Have also heard horror stories from colleagues. If you have direct experience with the car licensing systems then happy to go with your superior knowledge on the topic.

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  # 1325024 15-Jun-2015 14:41
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wasabi2k:
DonGould: Why do we need check points?


To catch people driving unregistered and un-woffed vehicles, which shouldn't be on the road, at all.



I find that totally unacceptable in New Zealand.

Next we'll be stopping people and asking for papers to ensure that they're entitled to be here.

To me, the only valid reason for a check point is to catch drunk driving as we, sadly, have a proven history of just breaking that law and it does consistently lead to harm.



wasabi2k: In government no, but plenty at scale in a number of corporates. Have also heard horror stories from colleagues. If you have direct experience with the car licensing systems then happy to go with your superior knowledge on the topic.


Like you, I don't have specific experience with the licensing system in New Zealand.  But I do have enough experience with database systems in government to know that it's not that complex to sort these things out.  Sure it's not as easy as just whacking up a wordpress web site with woo commerce and a paypal gateway, but that doesn't mean we should just write it off as to hard and not even attempt it.

We went to school to learn computer skills.  Now we have them we should use the in our adult lives to do useful stuff.

To me, it would be useful to be able to have my credit card automatically billed for my car rego.






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  # 1325109 15-Jun-2015 15:34
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I find that totally unacceptable in New Zealand.


I believe this is where our opinions diverge. Comparing this to a police state and citizenship papers is disingenuous in my opinion.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you want to drive, follow the required laws and be prepared to be checked.

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  # 1325112 15-Jun-2015 15:40
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I find that totally unacceptable in New Zealand.

I find it completely acceptable.  In any country.

Next we'll be stopping people and asking for papers to ensure that they're entitled to be here.

 New Zealanders are not required to carry evidence of Citizenship, but they are required to carry driving licenses if they are driving.  Unlicenced drivers commonly have no registration or WOF.

To me, the only valid reason for a check point is to catch drunk driving as we, sadly, have a proven history of just breaking that law and it does consistently lead to harm.
     
I agree that drunk drivers are a menace to themselves and everyone else. And they are often unlicensed / disqualified drivers.

EDIT   formatting problems




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  # 1325137 15-Jun-2015 16:08
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wasabi2k: Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you want to drive, follow the required laws and be prepared to be checked.


I will agree to disagree with you :)

Driving is a right, not a privilege, but it is a right that you only attain if you get the required training and certification and then follow the rules.  Everyone has the right to give it a go, there are just about no exceptions (ie if you have a disability such had mental or physical impairment like blindness)

As for being randomly stopped, I find that just unacceptable.

I fully support making checks if there is a valid reason to stop you, for example if someone has laid a complaint about the quality of your driving then I have no issue with you being stopped.

As far as I'm concerned we should be judged as innocent until proven guilty.

Randomly stopping someone and then doing a series of checks is 'guilty until proven innocent' and that is just unacceptable to me.




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  # 1325145 15-Jun-2015 16:17
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I'm talking about the cops setting up a checkpoint at an on-ramp and checking warrants and regos, same as a booze stop.

Is that what we are talking about?

I agree that police should not be abusing their position to harrass people, but they require the right to stop people for valid reasons. We have an independent complaints tribunal for dealing with those that do abuse the system.

Following your logic should we not have booze stops at all? As long as you are driving OK you should be left alone?

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