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  # 1343391 14-Jul-2015 22:06
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If money was no object, the Passat R-Line with 500Nm of torque would be an awesome machine ... $67k though!

VW Passat Specs

176kW from a 2L diesel is pretty amazing even though they use two turbos to do it!





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  # 1343395 14-Jul-2015 22:22
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alasta:
grant_k:
Inphinity: ...
That said, to go VW Diesel, the OP would have to stump up a $20k premium over the Mazda 6 petrol, given the Passat Diesel range starts at about $67k, while the Mazda 6 GSX is $46k. The Skoda octavia is about the only euro diesel that doesn't command at least a $15k premium over a Japanese or Korean comparable vehicle - there's only a $2k jump in the Mazda 6 to go to Diesel, though, for example. That said, if you're like me, by the time you factor in a couple thousand extra up front, a couple hundred extra per year, and the extra hassle of remembering something else (RUC) to do, it's a tough sell ;)

Looking at the specs for the Mazda 6 Atenza Diesel Wagon: 2.2L SKYACTIV D 16 valve DOHC Intercooled Turbo Diesel (129 kW at 4,500rpm, 420 Nm at 2,000rpm)

Those are pretty impressive figures and at $46k, is well worth a look.


I just checked Mazda's web site and its $47k for the GSX petrol vs $49k for the diesel, but that's still reasonable value. It's a shame there is a $9k premium for the limited because the extra features would be nice but the mechanicals are all the same. My budget is low $50s.

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


yes, on paper vs test drive vs actual ownership can be totally different experiences! good luck! man i wish i had 60k to burn! the Passat is what i would buy lol




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1343414 14-Jul-2015 23:09
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alasta: 
I just checked Mazda's web site and its $47k for the GSX petrol vs $49k for the diesel, but that's still reasonable value. It's a shame there is a $9k premium for the limited because the extra features would be nice but the mechanicals are all the same. My budget is low $50s.

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


I'm one of those biased Mazda 6 owners that would say it's a fantastic car, and certainly worth a test drive to see what you think. I've got a 2013 Limited, and didn't seriously consider the GLX or GSX because of the features then only available on the Limited. The revamped GSX, though, gets a few of those features so offers better value for money than it did.

I've got the diesel, and it's a brilliant engine. Check out its torque at well over 400nm; it's also decently fast, at about 8 seconds to 100km. As I've posted before, it's better suited for open-road driving, thanks to the damn particulate burn-off routine it does - so this would suit you well, given you say you don't intend to use it much in the city.

If you're only interested in the Limited, you can get this at a good price if you're willing to not buy brand new (and I seriously don't get why people elect to buy brand new cars these days). Given Mazdas now come with 5 years warranty and road-side assistance as well as three years free servicing, one can buy a s/h car at a great discount. I bought my 6 for $42,500 when it was just under a year old, so with over two years of servicing and warranty coverage (at that point it was three years for all of these). 

The other thing is it's always worth haggling with the dealers. At the time I also looked at buying new - I had a number of dealers offering me a 6 Limited with delivery kms on it for under $50k, when the list price was over $60k. This potentially makes a new 6 Limited well within your budget. (I've heard 6 sales are being eaten away by purchases of CX5s and similar 'SUVs').

Finally - I'd certainly recommend getting the face-lifted model, as the stereo/GPS is poor on the initial model (bad bluetooth and USB connection issues, and poor-quality/slow GPS that's the same as my 5-year-old Tomtom unit.

Edit: I've heard the new Camry is a better drive than the previous model, and it'll need to be as the hybrid I drove before purchasing my 6 was a total wallow-er in the corners. And if you're buying it for open-road driving, I'm sure you'll want something fun to drive - the Camry (hybrid or standard) probably won't meet such standards.

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  # 1343451 15-Jul-2015 08:20
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alasta:
grant_k:
Inphinity: ...
That said, to go VW Diesel, the OP would have to stump up a $20k premium over the Mazda 6 petrol, given the Passat Diesel range starts at about $67k, while the Mazda 6 GSX is $46k. The Skoda octavia is about the only euro diesel that doesn't command at least a $15k premium over a Japanese or Korean comparable vehicle - there's only a $2k jump in the Mazda 6 to go to Diesel, though, for example. That said, if you're like me, by the time you factor in a couple thousand extra up front, a couple hundred extra per year, and the extra hassle of remembering something else (RUC) to do, it's a tough sell ;)

Looking at the specs for the Mazda 6 Atenza Diesel Wagon: 2.2L SKYACTIV D 16 valve DOHC Intercooled Turbo Diesel (129 kW at 4,500rpm, 420 Nm at 2,000rpm)

Those are pretty impressive figures and at $46k, is well worth a look.


I just checked Mazda's web site and its $47k for the GSX petrol vs $49k for the diesel, but that's still reasonable value. It's a shame there is a $9k premium for the limited because the extra features would be nice but the mechanicals are all the same. My budget is low $50s.

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


Another vote for a Euro Diesel.

Ive got the previous gen Skoda Octavia RS. Its absolutely brilliant. As mentioned already is part of the Volkswagen Audi Group. 






 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1344494 15-Jul-2015 10:32
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jonathan18: Edit: I've heard the new Camry is a better drive than the previous model, and it'll need to be as the hybrid I drove before purchasing my 6 was a total wallow-er in the corners. And if you're buying it for open-road driving, I'm sure you'll want something fun to drive - the Camry (hybrid or standard) probably won't meet such standards.


This and the new facelift would be about the only things I'd say about the new model over the previous. It felt a lot nicer on the road and has a nice new modern look. Other than that, it's a very familiar feel. I found the touchscreen interface a little bit laggy as well, but that's a small niggle. 

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  # 1346991 18-Jul-2015 22:11
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You are really spoilt for choice in this class at the moment. Quite a few new models have just come out.

Fuel efficient mid to large (non-luxury) sedans 

 

  • Camery hybrid (petrol), 5.2L/100km, 0-100km/h in 8.1sec, 151kW, 421L boot, $44k to $52k
  • Volkswagen Passat (sedan) (petrol), 5.8L/100km, 0-100 in 7.9sec, 132kw/250Nm 586L boot, $46k to $55k
  • Ford Mondeo hatch (diesel), 5.1L/100km, unspecified acceleration, 132kw/400Nm, 557L boot (loaded to roof), $50k
  • Holden Malabu (diesel), 6.5L/100km, unspecified acceleration, 117kw/350Nm, 545L Boot, $45k to $49k
  • Mazda 6 sedan (diesel), 5.4L/100km, unspecified acceleration, 129kW/420Nm, 474L Boot, $58k
  • Subaru Legacy Sedan (petrol), 7.3L/100km, unspecified acceleration, 129kw/235Nm, Unknown Boot, $40k
  • Skoda Supurb Sedan (diesel), 6.3L/100km, 0-100km/h in 10.1 to 8.6sec, 103 to 125kw / 320 to 350 Nm, 565L Boot, $46k to $54k
  • Skoda Octavia Liftback (diesel), 5.7L/100km, 0-100km/h in 8.1sec, 135kw/380Nm, 568L Boot???, $50k

In terms of running costs:

Most economical petrol (camery hybrid) = $11.44/100km fuel cost (@ $2.20L petrol)
Passat = $12.76/100km fuel cost
Most economical diesel (Ford Mondeo) = $12.73/100km Fuel + RUC cost @ $1.28/L diesel

Rego:

Diesel = $151.13 ($1.88/100km, based on 8000km/year)
Petrol = $68.46 ($0.88/100km based on 8000km/year)

Essentially the petrol cars will be the cheapest to run.


In terms of emissions the Toyota will be cleanest by far, then the Passat (burns petrol via diesel style direct injection under high compression, leads to more partial emissions), with the diesel's being the worst (diesel fumes are a known carcinogen)


In terms of suitability as a touring car, In my eyes the most important factors are:

 

  • Low cabin noise at open road speed on course chip seal (makes significant difference to fatigue, and ease of conversation)
  • Comfortable seat's/seating potion (especially front seats)
  • Boot capacity - if going away overnight (only really an issue with more than 2 people) - Note the Toyota Camry's hybrid has a smaller boot than the non-hybrid cars)

Unfortunately the first two factor's aren't available on a spec sheet.


If I was in the market I would probably test drive: The Camery hybrid, VW passat (especially if you haven't driven a DSG car before - really nice on the road, not very nice for parking), Ford Mondeo and one of the Skoda's


Of course with only 8000km per year your fuel costs are going going to be pretty small. Unless you care greatly about minimising fuel usage or emissions, your might be better to go for something more thirsty. For example the Holden Malibu with the petrol engine (8.0L/100km) is currently on run out (2014MY stock) for $34k - $37k. The Malabu is basically the same size as a commodore (bigger boot), but with FWD and a 4 cylinder engine (I drove the Chevy badged on in the USA, quite nice - comfortable, smooth, quiet etc)


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  # 1346997 18-Jul-2015 22:29
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alasta: .

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


You can get very healthy discounts off the RRP, espeically if you are paying cash and you keep it simple. Also you may get a better deal on the pre facelift model, although it misses out on the new integrated mazda system. I would check out what different dealers are selling for on trademe, and then play one dealer off against another to get the best price. 

 
 
 
 


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  # 1347069 19-Jul-2015 07:58
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As GZ is a tech site I am wondering if anybody else who has looked at the Mazda 6, and for that matter the 3 as well, and finds the positioning of the main display screen strange? To me it looks like it has been added as an afterthought. Almost as if the designers have gone "oh crap, we forgot to in include the 7" touchscreen all our competitors have, I know, get some bluetack and we'll put it here".

Edit: I know it will have been a considered decision and no doubt was debated at length in the design meetings. There will be valid reasons, such as driver eyeline, etc, but that doesn't change the first impression of it being an afterthought.




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  # 1347087 19-Jul-2015 09:42
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Dingbatt: As GZ is a tech site I am wondering if anybody else who has looked at the Mazda 6, and for that matter the 3 as well, and finds the positioning of the main display screen strange? To me it looks like it has been added as an afterthought. Almost as if the designers have gone "oh crap, we forgot to in include the 7" touchscreen all our competitors have, I know, get some bluetack and we'll put it here".

Edit: I know it will have been a considered decision and no doubt was debated at length in the design meetings. There will be valid reasons, such as driver eyeline, etc, but that doesn't change the first impression of it being an afterthought.


Yes, I agree, although I don't think Mazda are the only manufacturer doing it like this. It's one of a few little niggles that put me off Mazda, because the fact that it looks like an aftermarket accessory is likely to be attractive to (admittedly dumb) thieves.

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  # 1347105 19-Jul-2015 10:47
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mattwnz:
alasta: .

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


You can get very healthy discounts off the RRP, espeically if you are paying cash and you keep it simple. Also you may get a better deal on the pre facelift model, although it misses out on the new integrated mazda system. I would check out what different dealers are selling for on trademe, and then play one dealer off against another to get the best price. 


anyone know what sort of margin off RRP could be expected to be negotiated on a Mazda?

I want to buy my mum a CX-3 as a present.  List price RRP 31995, what sort of deal could I expect for cash?

30?

I'm in no hurry and happy to wait till someone is desperate to move one.  I'm guessing CX-3 will be a popular car though

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  # 1347106 19-Jul-2015 10:52
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Depends. On how many they need to sell to meet their quota obligation to Mazda, how many people are buying, NZD Yen/USD when the stock was agreed on etc

Usually 10-15% if they are not doing well.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1347110 19-Jul-2015 10:57
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And every dealer is in a different pickle. So worth trying other places.

Based on recent NZD strength I'd say you have to be lucky to get old stock before the slump - i expect car prices to go up next year if out stays like this and based on farmers problems it's only going to get worse.

But if they really need to clear then you can get 20-30% (normal fleet price discount) but that is unlikely as they need to pay Mazda to buy the cars. Ford falcon usually falls into this category. Haven't seen other models do that.

You could try a big businessman and try to get fleet prices.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1347398 19-Jul-2015 21:59
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alasta: .

I know that the Mazda 6 is highly regarded by owners and critics, but for me personally it doesn't scream "buy me". Maybe I will feel different when I have looked at these vehicles properly in the flesh.


To me the Mazda it seems a bit dated, compared to the recently released competition, and it's list price is quite high compared to the compaction.


Recently updated models: VW Passat, Ford Mondeo, Toyota Camry (incl Hybrid), Subaru Legacy.

All have list prices (for comparable models) well below that of the Diesel Mazda 6. (I have used the petrol Passat for comparison, it has diesel like fuel consumption, the diesel is AWD and the performance hero of the range. no diesel available on Subary Legacy)

Personally (although I have driven non of (the new generation) of them) I find the Passat, and Mondeo more desirable than the Mazda 6. And the Camery Hybrid is the most efficient of the lot, I would also back it's reliability / cost of maintenance over that of Modern (high pressure fuel pumps + Particulate filters etc) diesels. Probability has the most residual too given how popular they are in taxi fleets (It's my favourite taxi to ride in the back seat of).

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  # 1347612 20-Jul-2015 11:15
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Scott3: 

In terms of emissions the Toyota will be cleanest by far, then the Passat (burns petrol via diesel style direct injection under high compression, leads to more partial emissions), with the diesel's being the worst (diesel fumes are a known carcinogen)



Diesels aren't the worst these days, with DPF being mandatory.  TUV discovered the issue with FSI (fuel stratified injection) engines, IIRC the level of small particulates in the exhaust can be 4x the level of modern diesel with DPF and 1000x (!) the level of port injected petrol engines.  It would be pretty safe to assume that these fine particulates are carcinogenic, they get deep into the lungs and are small enough to pass directly into the bloodstream, and contain aromatic/alicyclic HCs adsorbed on the carbon particle.  Because it's not visible (like dirty old diesels) doesn't mean it's safe. Prior to TUV discovering this, there was a bit of concern about particulates forming from engine oil in the cylinder in overrun conditions - a different issue.
It's likely that particulate filters will become mandatory for FSI petrol engines in future, but OTOH they're hard to measure, and the level at which these particles are formed is going to depend a lot on engine management systems, duty cycles etc.

Mechanical compression ratio of typical VAG engines is typically normal/low, (~10:1) but they use forced induction to get the cylinder pressures where stratified injection yields efficiency gains (eliminating pre-ignition by precise fuel injection at the top of the compression stroke allowing lean burn at high pressures).  Ford ecoboost etc similar.
Mazda SkyActiv typically have high mechanical compression ratio (14:1) without forced induction.  The same thing's happening in the cylinder so they're probably also churning out these particulates.
Mazda proposed "SkyActiv" V2 takes it a step further, with stratified petrol injection in engines with 18:1 compression ratio and compression ignition - so the next generation petrol engines from Mazda actually may be "petrol-fueled diesels".

Toyota hybrids use so-called modified atkinson cycle.  Mechanical compression ration is high (>12:1), but cylinder pressure at TDC is kept low by valve timing, so they don't need stratified injection to prevent pre-ignition, but get efficiency gains by making more out of post-ignition expansion of gases (having in effect a longer power stroke than compression stroke). It's efficient, but not in power:weight.

So interesting (IMO) things going on here, VAG etc give you the choice of very small capacity efficient forced induction engines that perform as well as normally aspirated engines 50% larger (or get one with a larger engine that goes like lightening), Mazda - more normal capacity engines with high fuel efficiency, or there's the petrol hybrid route.

Based on the KISS principle - I don't trust any of them, with the possible exception of the Toyota Hybrid even though it's still far too complex for my liking and a compromise.  I wouldn't touch a hybrid from any third-tier maker with a long history of making lemons. These new cars rely on incredibly critical components and complex engine management systems to keep going, then incredibly complex electro-mechanical systems for things like stop-start, cylinder deactivation, multiple ratio conventional gearbox with lock-up torque converters on all forward gears (Mazda) and incredibly complex servo actuated dual-cluch transmissions (VAG's Borg-Warner DSGs, Ford's Getrag dual clutch transmissions).  So long as they keep going, brilliant, but out of warranty you're sitting on a massive liability. 

The next new car I'd like is probably a Tesla 3.  If the range is ever a problem, I'd just hire a car for that trip (or fly).

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  # 1347635 20-Jul-2015 11:23
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nathan:
anyone know what sort of margin off RRP could be expected to be negotiated on a Mazda?

I want to buy my mum a CX-3 as a present.  List price RRP 31995, what sort of deal could I expect for cash?

30?

I'm in no hurry and happy to wait till someone is desperate to move one.  I'm guessing CX-3 will be a popular car though


Another 'discount' that is not too uncommon is to get an ex-demo, and often you can get the next-model-up for the entry level price - e.g. a GSX demonstrator with 2 - 3000km on it for the GLX price if not slightly below. Usually only available when they are about to refresh their demo lineup, which when this is depends on the individual dealer.

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