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  Reply # 1379806 4-Sep-2015 14:57
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jfanning: Yes I do, I own a car, I am employed, I purchase petrol for my car, therefore I pay ACC.

But, if as a cyclist I am hit by a car, surely the car ACC levy should cover that?


If you own more than one vehicle you pay an ACC levy on each, regardless of the fact you can only drive/ride one at a time.

Alternative here is to source ACC levies in a different way, so each person pays once and are covered for any vehicle, but that has it's own logistical challenges.




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  Reply # 1379808 4-Sep-2015 14:57
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jfanning:
Talkiet:
Well, you're not paying any ACC levy for road use for a start :-)

Cheers - N



Yes I do, I own a car, I am employed, I purchase petrol for my car, therefore I pay ACC.

But, if as a cyclist I am hit by a car, surely the car ACC levy should cover that?


Fair enough... You are... But are all cyclists? and there are many other reasons it's a good idea (and I am sure many reasons it's a bad idea)

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1379811 4-Sep-2015 15:05
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What would be handy if every car in the future had "human radar" type detector on a dashboard (light + voice) if pedestrian, cyclist or motorbyke are in proximity.
Safety tags detectable by those "human radars" should be considered mandatory inserts in the frame and helmet and could also be sold to pedestrians in a shape of keyrings.
And surely geeks will do free apps which should work for both drivers and pedestrians who pay more attention to their tablets rather than to what is happening outside their "networld" - e.g. Red + Voice alert through Facebook page - "you have motorbyke from behind!"




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  Reply # 1379813 4-Sep-2015 15:05
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mdooher:
qyiet:
MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.


Wording on this would be very important.  For instance if I was stopped at a red light, and a bike sneaks up the side of the traffic queue to the front of the queue within 1m of me am I now breaking the law?


or better yet, I'm slowing down or in crawling traffic, does the bike that passes me on the left get a ticket for clearly breaking the law? No, because the road rules only apply to cars

do I get a ticket for hitting him when I turn left? I shouldn't because legally he shouldn't have been passing me
if a cyclist can pass you on the left then you haven't obeyed the keep left rule. I make sure once I pass a cyclist that I then travel as far left as possible. You can by law only pass on the left if the traffic is stationary, if not pass on the right. As a motocylist I have looked in to the rules for under taking, can't see it being different to a cyclist

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  Reply # 1379857 4-Sep-2015 15:54
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IMHO: I am pretty much the universal commuter - sometimes I drive a car, sometimes I ride a bike, sometimes I take a train, sometimes I take a bus, and sometimes I walk (but only a couple of times a year - it is nearly 18km each way). I mention this only in an attempt to show that I can see this from both sides

I like to think I'm a pretty good driver and a pretty good cyclist, however research suggests that none of us are as good as we think we are when we're in charge of a vehicle (F1, WRC, etc. and Tour de France competitors possibly excepted). Whether I'm driving, riding or walking I always try to follow the rules. But every day I see motorists break rules [*see note] so either they don't know the rules, or they think they have the right to choose which ones they obey. Setting a 1.5m buffer zone for cyclists won't make any difference because a motorist who will run a red light, not stop at a stop sign, not indicate, not wear seatbelts, drive after a few too many beers, or drive over the limit, is not going to bother estimating the distance between themselves and a cyclist. The thought process will be: Can I get past without hitting him? Yes? Good enough.  And the motorists who know and obey all the rules all the time are probably leaving plenty of room for cyclists already. 

Me, I just try to be mindful and considerate of every other road user, regardless of what mode of transport I am using, they are using, and whether theirs is bigger or smaller than mine. But when I'm cycling I'm acutely aware that in a car vs. bike accident, I am going to come off worse every time so I'm extra cautious.

[Note: Yes, I do see cyclists and pedestrians break the law every day too, but this thread is about the buffer zone motorists have to leave between their vehicles and bicycles so I'm just referencing motorists' behaviour there.]

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  Reply # 1379882 4-Sep-2015 16:28
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plod:
mdooher:
qyiet:
MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.


Wording on this would be very important.  For instance if I was stopped at a red light, and a bike sneaks up the side of the traffic queue to the front of the queue within 1m of me am I now breaking the law?


or better yet, I'm slowing down or in crawling traffic, does the bike that passes me on the left get a ticket for clearly breaking the law? No, because the road rules only apply to cars

do I get a ticket for hitting him when I turn left? I shouldn't because legally he shouldn't have been passing me
if a cyclist can pass you on the left then you haven't obeyed the keep left rule. I make sure once I pass a cyclist that I then travel as far left as possible. You can by law only pass on the left if the traffic is stationary, if not pass on the right. As a motocylist I have looked in to the rules for under taking, can't see it being different to a cyclist


I saw a cyclist last weekend try to overtake on the left someone who was turning left. The cyclist was most indignant..  Also you tried to keep left these days with all the council built road obstruction on the left like trees,  pot plants random pieces of concrete??




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1379883 4-Sep-2015 16:37
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old3eyes:
plod:
mdooher:
qyiet:
MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.


Wording on this would be very important.  For instance if I was stopped at a red light, and a bike sneaks up the side of the traffic queue to the front of the queue within 1m of me am I now breaking the law?


or better yet, I'm slowing down or in crawling traffic, does the bike that passes me on the left get a ticket for clearly breaking the law? No, because the road rules only apply to cars

do I get a ticket for hitting him when I turn left? I shouldn't because legally he shouldn't have been passing me
if a cyclist can pass you on the left then you haven't obeyed the keep left rule. I make sure once I pass a cyclist that I then travel as far left as possible. You can by law only pass on the left if the traffic is stationary, if not pass on the right. As a motocylist I have looked in to the rules for under taking, can't see it being different to a cyclist


I saw a cyclist last weekend try to overtake on the left someone who was turning left. The cyclist was most indignant..  Also you tried to keep left these days with all the council built road obstruction on the left like trees,  pot plants random pieces of concrete??
only when a cyclist is going to undertake, this in car. On bike I don't wait for traffic

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  Reply # 1379898 4-Sep-2015 17:02
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The question is, will creating a new law that few people know about actually change any gaps.  I vote not.




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  Reply # 1379908 4-Sep-2015 17:18

nakedmolerat: Maybe the cyclist should be paying Road Tax and identification plate so that we can also report every time they break the rules such as cycling through the red light!

This happen more often than you think!


I think most adult cyclists are also car drivers.

Do you think people suddenly change their road personality when they swap from one to the other?

I don't condone cyclists sneaking across red lights. I don't do it. It makes cyclists look bad because there is almost always an audience of car drivers waiting.

But, every time I drive, I see car drivers running amber/red lights when they should have stopped.

Personally, I think that is more dangerous. Much more mass, speed involved.

New Zealand road users aren't good at lights.

I think Police should be focusing more on intersections and less on catching people a couple of km/h over speed the limit.

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  Reply # 1379911 4-Sep-2015 17:24
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old3eyes: I saw a cyclist last weekend try to overtake on the left someone who was turning left. The cyclist was most indignant..  Also you tried to keep left these days with all the council built road obstruction on the left like trees,  pot plants random pieces of concrete??

I imagine this stems from the fact that cyclists going straight have the right of way over turning traffic. I could be wrong, this might not be a rule or this might only apply when there are cycle lanes, but it's easy to imagine this kind of rule being bastardised and suddenly being applied everywhere (in someone's mind).

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  Reply # 1379930 4-Sep-2015 18:22
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Talkiet:
jfanning:
Talkiet:
Well, you're not paying any ACC levy for road use for a start :-)

Cheers - N


4
Yes I do, I own a car, I am employed, I purchase petrol for my car, therefore I pay ACC.

But, if as a cyclist I am hit by a car, surely the car ACC levy should cover that?


Fair enough... You are... But are all cyclists? and there are many other reasons it's a good idea (and I am sure many reasons it's a bad idea)

Cheers - N



When I run to work I don't pay ACC.  Why should I pay when I cycle?

How much does ACC pay out in cyclist costs compared to drivers?

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  Reply # 1379939 4-Sep-2015 18:42
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I'm somewhat curious why it is that everyone says this "won't happen" or why it's "completely impossible" on New Zealand roads. New Zealand roads are all built to AustRoads standards, and yet all Australian states and territories have the 1.0/1.5 metre clearance law, and somehow Australians manage to drive on the roads without a single cyclist causing the entire state to grind to a screeching halt. I think some people are perhaps overstating the impact of this issue.

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  Reply # 1379940 4-Sep-2015 18:43
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bazzer:
old3eyes: I saw a cyclist last weekend try to overtake on the left someone who was turning left. The cyclist was most indignant..  Also you tried to keep left these days with all the council built road obstruction on the left like trees,  pot plants random pieces of concrete??

I imagine this stems from the fact that cyclists going straight have the right of way over turning traffic. I could be wrong, this might not be a rule or this might only apply when there are cycle lanes, but it's easy to imagine this kind of rule being bastardised and suddenly being applied everywhere (in someone's mind).


The law also says you are not allowed to pass on the left.  You can see why it says this.  Hard to comply all the time when you are a cyclist though.  You would be swapping sides of the lane all the time.




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  Reply # 1379941 4-Sep-2015 18:43
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blackjack17:
Talkiet:
jfanning:
Talkiet:
Well, you're not paying any ACC levy for road use for a start :-)

Cheers - N


4
Yes I do, I own a car, I am employed, I purchase petrol for my car, therefore I pay ACC.

But, if as a cyclist I am hit by a car, surely the car ACC levy should cover that?


Fair enough... You are... But are all cyclists? and there are many other reasons it's a good idea (and I am sure many reasons it's a bad idea)

Cheers - N



When I run to work I don't pay ACC.  Why should I pay when I cycle?

How much does ACC pay out in cyclist costs compared to drivers?


You're being disingenuous. Why is it that many people seem to want to pick and choose the components of being a legitimate road user? Want to use the roads, wan to have specific protections in law from other users, are required to obey road rules etc... But nah, not interested in any of the costs. (See excellent point above about cars paying registration per vehicle. I have more than one car... I'm only ever using one at a time on the road... Why should I pay registration for each one?)

No taxation or aggregate funding model (registration, levies) is perfect, and I'm not even really suggesting that cyclists should pay anything/much, certainly nothing like what the registration for a car costs! It's the anonymity of cyclists that annoys me most. If I see an idiot cyclist, there is literally nothing I can do to identify them unless I chase after them and get a photo of their face or ask for ID.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1379955 4-Sep-2015 19:29
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So the proposed rule would be pretty damn hard to enforce. Could still be useful as a trick up the Police's sleeve for dealing with bad eggs, when they are driving in a generally dangerous or inconsiderate way. Similar to liquor ban areas, or the no cruising zone in Christchurch. Applied with a very generous dose of discretion, but only to people that are being dicks. 

An example would be the small number of idiots who like to purposefully scare cyclists - once when I was biking in a marked cycle lane, a guy went past me at north of 50kmh with one wheel in the cyclelane - inches away from me when there was no need to (4 lane road with minimal traffic). This situation would be easy to deal with under the new law, as the marked cycle lane is a fixed point of reference

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