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1480 posts

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# 180620 15-Sep-2015 14:31
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Just read an article on the Herald about how awesome those wire barriers are :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11513290

but also remembered an article in the Herald from ages ago about how evil they can be to motorcycles :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320

Now hitting anything on the bike is never going to be a comfortable, and I hate riding along side the wire barriers (all those little steel posts to get wrapped up in never mind the thought of being sawn by the wire), but for cars they do work quite well.

Whats peoples thoughts ... is it worth maiming a few riders to save a few dollars over installing solid barriers ?

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  # 1387895 15-Sep-2015 14:33
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Yep.

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Uber Geek


  # 1387900 15-Sep-2015 14:44
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So the last time a motorcyclist died on these wire barriers was 2007? How frequently does it occur?

How much extra do solid barriers cost over wired?

How many km of road have these 'wire' barriers? 

How much more effective would a solid barrier be over a wire barrier for motorcyclists? Seems to me that usually an accident at the legal limit would often result in motorcyclists death anyway. 

What is the price of a life? 


I think it is rubbish that we don't have a dual carriageway for the entire length of SH1. That would save more lives , so we should do that too. 

 
 
 
 


Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1387902 15-Sep-2015 14:52
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Wait till some cyclist gets caught in one and loses a finger... there will be an "outcry" and LTSA will be "slammed" for allowing dangerous road furniture. Stuff will run an article about how "outraged" the cycling community is and the Police will state "speed was a factor" After a 2 week consolation with a public relations company Labour will add removal of the cheese cutter wire to its election manifesto.




Matthew


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  # 1387903 15-Sep-2015 14:55
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In the location (Pukerua Bay) a fixed barrier isn't possible due to the road width.



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  # 1387905 15-Sep-2015 14:56
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A motorcyclist has a better survival rate when the wire barriers are there.
How? Simply by not getting hit by an out of control car crossing the centreline.

 

Looking at the number of strikes on the centennial highway barrier, it 100% makes sense to have them there.

 

 

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Uber Geek


  # 1387907 15-Sep-2015 15:01
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I only agree with median barriers on two-lane roads if they are accompanied by ruthless fining of people who drive unreasonably slowly

Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1387909 15-Sep-2015 15:05
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sbiddle: In the location (Pukerua Bay) a fixed barrier isn't possible due to the road width.




Since the minimum deflection allowed to be used in the design of the barrier is 1.25m  that means to stop a vehicle entering the oncoming lane (on both sides) you would need that space on each side of the barrier ie 2.5m total

plenty of space for a solid barrier.

However in New Zealand we slap them up and ignore the 1.25m deflection.... why...because its cheap




Matthew


 
 
 
 


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  # 1387910 15-Sep-2015 15:06
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A barrier is way better than no barrier and I guess the solid ones are better, however cars have gone over the concrete barrier on the Wellington urban motorway. They are currently removing the best barrier(sand filled steel) on the motorway to make room for new lanes. Given how narrow the new lanes will be the replacement barrier will get a lot of work.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

The is no planet B

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 1387911 15-Sep-2015 15:08
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It was my understanding that they were never designed to be used as a median barrier due to the amount of deflection they allow.  Particularly if you manage to take one out from the outside of a curve.
They are more designed for use along the edge of culverts and the like to prevent vehicles disappearing over the edge.
This may be incorrect understanding as it's from a few years back when they were first installing them everywhere.




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  # 1387912 15-Sep-2015 15:12
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I feel they are dangerous.  Here our new Tauranga Eastern Link have them virtually the whole 22km.  Making a whole new road like this the extra cost of concrete barrier would have been negligible.   I know its not often for crashes with motorcycles but the extra cost worth it if it saves just 1 motorcyclist from being virtually cut in half by wire rope




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Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1387913 15-Sep-2015 15:13
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Gilco2: I feel they are dangerous.  Here our new Tauranga Eastern Link have them virtually the whole 22km.  Making a whole new road like this the extra cost of concrete barrier would have been negligible.   I know its not often for crashes with motorcycles but the extra cost worth it if it saves just 1 motorcyclist from being virtually cut in half by wire rope
Over the lifetime of the barrier concrete is significantly cheaper... but since maintenance is a different budget...




Matthew


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Uber Geek


  # 1387914 15-Sep-2015 15:17
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Gilco2: I feel they are dangerous.  Here our new Tauranga Eastern Link have them virtually the whole 22km.  Making a whole new road like this the extra cost of concrete barrier would have been negligible.   I know its not often for crashes with motorcycles but the extra cost worth it if it saves just 1 motorcyclist from being virtually cut in half by wire rope


Negligible? 

 

How much? 

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1387919 15-Sep-2015 15:23
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In the particular case of SH1 north of Wellington between Pukerua Bay and McKay's Crossing, ask anyone from the emergency services (mostly Volunteer Fire Brigade units) in the area - they will tell you that the wire median barriers are worth a million dollars a metre for the carnage they have removed from that piece of road. Owing to the "highway" being pinched between the sea and the rail line, there was no room for any 'solid' barrier.
I don't think any new stretch of road should have a wire median strip barrier, that's just penny-pinching.

Oh yes, and BRING ON TRANSMISSION GULLY!

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Uber Geek


  # 1387920 15-Sep-2015 15:26
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They're cheap, they're nasty. But they don't obscure sight distances as severely as higher test level barriers, and they are very effective at preventing overtaking, e.g. centennial highway.
But I still hate them. And people who drive slowly on centennial highway.

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Uber Geek


  # 1387933 15-Sep-2015 15:42
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mdooher: Wait till some cyclist gets caught in one and loses a finger... there will be an "outcry" and LTSA will be "slammed" for allowing dangerous road furniture. Stuff will run an article about how "outraged" the cycling community is and the Police will state "speed was a factor" After a 2 week consolation with a public relations company Labour will add removal of the cheese cutter wire to its election manifesto.


This probably happens nearly every week, without the outcry you mention..

My brother has steel plates and screws all through his hand from exactly this.

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