VW - busted!

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Reply # 1400707 6-Oct-2015 08:58

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shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

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Fred99

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Reply # 1400708 6-Oct-2015 08:59

MikeB4: The only "dirty" diesels I seem to encounter are Nissan, Isuzu, Mitsubishi and the entire Wellington region diesel bus stock.

Old VW, Mercedes diesels were just as bad, new Japanese diesels are just as good.
That for the stuff you can see (black smoke).
The invisible stuff being spewed out matters too.

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grant_k

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Reply # 1400719 6-Oct-2015 09:07

pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Exactly! I have a 2011 VW Golf with 2.0 TDI engine that looks like it will be affected by this.

I have no intention of taking it in for a software tweak and will continue getting it serviced by an independent mechanic whom I know and trust. VW are not getting their grubby hands on my ECU

MikeB4

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Reply # 1400722 6-Oct-2015 09:20

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Fred99:
MikeB4: The only "dirty" diesels I seem to encounter are Nissan, Isuzu, Mitsubishi and the entire Wellington region diesel bus stock.

Old VW, Mercedes diesels were just as bad, new Japanese diesels are just as good.
That for the stuff you can see (black smoke).
The invisible stuff being spewed out matters too.

Yep aware of that, I have owned numerous diesel 4WD's.

I should add the majority on NZ roads its not the manufacturers fault but woeful maintenance by owners

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Reply # 1400754 6-Oct-2015 09:54

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grant_k:
pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Exactly! I have a 2011 VW Golf with 2.0 TDI engine that looks like it will be affected by this.

I have no intention of taking it in for a software tweak and will continue getting it serviced by an independent mechanic whom I know and trust. VW are not getting their grubby hands on my ECU

Speak with the guys at Unitronic. They can crank even more power out of your lovely clean diesel. Some of the figures for the 2.0TDI passats and tiguans are quite amazing.

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Fred99

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Reply # 1400771 6-Oct-2015 10:27

TimA:
pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Speak with the guys at Unitronic. They can crank even more power out of your lovely clean diesel. Some of the figures for the 2.0TDI passats and tiguans are quite amazing.

I don't fancy the chance of that business being viable long-term. It's already technically illegal, probably safe to assume that what VAG did may draw attention to it, and that serious efforts might be made to overcome practical difficulties enforcing the regulations.

This already applies to cars imported new post 2007:

If a vehicle’s exhaust emissions equipment is modified or repaired, it will be a requirement that the repair enables the vehicle to continue to comply with the standard to which it was built. If there is doubt over whether the modification is appropriate, a vehicle may be required to undergo an emissions test to demonstrate compliance. This provision applies only to vehicles that are required to comply with a specific standard when they enter the New Zealand fleet, it does not apply to vehicles that are already part of the in-service fleet.

Not sure how the "cheat" VW/Audi/Skodas already sold in NZ might be treated. The recall/fix might be made compulsory.

grant_k

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Reply # 1400787 6-Oct-2015 10:43

Fred99:
TimA:
pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Speak with the guys at Unitronic. They can crank even more power out of your lovely clean diesel. Some of the figures for the 2.0TDI passats and tiguans are quite amazing.

I don't fancy the chance of that business being viable long-term. It's already technically illegal, probably safe to assume that what VAG did may draw attention to it, and that serious efforts might be made to overcome practical difficulties enforcing the regulations.

This already applies to cars imported new post 2007:
If a vehicle’s exhaust emissions equipment is modified or repaired, it will be a requirement that the repair enables the vehicle to continue to comply with the standard to which it was built. If there is doubt over whether the modification is appropriate, a vehicle may be required to undergo an emissions test to demonstrate compliance. This provision applies only to vehicles that are required to comply with a specific standard when they enter the New Zealand fleet, it does not apply to vehicles that are already part of the in-service fleet.

Not sure how the "cheat" VW/Audi/Skodas already sold in NZ might be treated. The recall/fix might be made compulsory.

VW could only make it compulsory for vehicles which are still under warranty, which mine isn't. I can't see the Guvmint passing any laws to make it compulsory for vehicle owners to take their vehicles in under the recall. Given the pretty small number of vehicles involved, it will remain an optional service available for those owners who wish to take it up.

I still have a recall notice sitting on my desk about a wiring issue affecting my Hilux ute. Given the very small mileage we do, it's unlikely to ever be a problem, so I haven't bothered. The letter from VW will be put into a similar file and passed on to the next owner when we eventually sell the vehicle. Recalls are fairly commonplace these days and the level of non-compliance must be huge.

Now before anyone says that our vehicle could be failed at the next WOF, I sincerely doubt that the Guvmint would put in place any such checking, given the large number of old bangers out there emitting massive volumes of pollution compared to our relatively clean diesel. Even if they did, there are plenty of mechanics offering WOFs in out-of-the-way places around the country who wouldn't have the equipment or knowledge to test emissions from a 2011 vehicle.

Technofreak

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Reply # 1400810 6-Oct-2015 10:51

pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Me neither.

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Fred99

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Reply # 1400836 6-Oct-2015 11:04

grant_k:
Fred99:
TimA:
pdath:
shk292: Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

I wouldn't want the fix. I'd want the performance.

Speak with the guys at Unitronic. They can crank even more power out of your lovely clean diesel. Some of the figures for the 2.0TDI passats and tiguans are quite amazing.

I don't fancy the chance of that business being viable long-term. It's already technically illegal, probably safe to assume that what VAG did may draw attention to it, and that serious efforts might be made to overcome practical difficulties enforcing the regulations.

This already applies to cars imported new post 2007:
If a vehicle’s exhaust emissions equipment is modified or repaired, it will be a requirement that the repair enables the vehicle to continue to comply with the standard to which it was built. If there is doubt over whether the modification is appropriate, a vehicle may be required to undergo an emissions test to demonstrate compliance. This provision applies only to vehicles that are required to comply with a specific standard when they enter the New Zealand fleet, it does not apply to vehicles that are already part of the in-service fleet.

Not sure how the "cheat" VW/Audi/Skodas already sold in NZ might be treated. The recall/fix might be made compulsory.

VW could only make it compulsory for vehicles which are still under warranty, which mine isn't. I can't see the Guvmint passing any laws to make it compulsory for vehicle owners to take their vehicles in under the recall. Given the pretty small number of vehicles involved, it will remain an optional service available for those owners who wish to take it up.

I still have a recall notice sitting on my desk about a wiring issue affecting my Hilux ute. Given the very small mileage we do, it's unlikely to ever be a problem, so I haven't bothered. The letter from VW will be put into a similar file and passed on to the next owner when we eventually sell the vehicle. Recalls are fairly commonplace these days and the level of non-compliance must be huge.

Now before anyone says that our vehicle could be failed at the next WOF, I sincerely doubt that the Guvmint would put in place any such checking, given the large number of old bangers out there emitting massive volumes of pollution compared to our relatively clean diesel. Even if they did, there are plenty of mechanics offering WOFs in out-of-the-way places around the country who wouldn't have the equipment or knowledge to test emissions from a 2011 vehicle.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree that government might turn a blind eye. On this, I wouldn't be too confident.
As for WOF, there are already endorsements for some vehicle models requiring additional checks. It would be very simple indeed for them to insist on proof that recall service had been carried out - no emission check needed.

You guys should lay off on the topic of "old bangers" in a motoring forum. A likely casualty of the kind of nonsense being suggested would be that all classics, vintage vehicles, etc would be banned. Gradual obsolescence and not enacting retrospective legislation does seem to work, and is fair and reasonable.

grant_k

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Reply # 1400853 6-Oct-2015 11:15

Fred99: ...
Under normal circumstances, I'd agree that government might turn a blind eye. On this, I wouldn't be too confident.
As for WOF, there are already endorsements for some vehicle models requiring additional checks. It would be very simple indeed for them to insist on proof that recall service had been carried out - no emission check needed.

Well I guess we'll have to wait and see. By the time they get around to doing anything I might not have the vehicle anyway.

dafman

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Reply # 1400922 6-Oct-2015 11:57

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Will be interesting to see how the long term reputation impact pans out. I've read stories of car dealers in the US moving their VW stock from the lot front to the rear. Will it blow over?

Fred99

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Reply # 1402876 9-Oct-2015 09:37

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“This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason,” Michael Horn, VW’s U.S. chief, told a House subcommittee hearing. “To my understanding, this was not a corporate decision. This was something individuals did.”

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Sideface

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Reply # 1402904 9-Oct-2015 10:37

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Fred99:

“This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason,” Michael Horn, VW’s U.S. chief, told a House subcommittee hearing. “To my understanding, this was not a corporate decision. This was something individuals did.”

link