Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55


Topic # 183876 2-Nov-2015 12:00
Send private message

I purchased a 2005 Ford Falcon Fairmont from a dealer 7 weeks ago, and the car suddenly (1 week ago) developed a bad misfire. I'm no mechanic, but to me its like its missing on 1 cylinder all the time, and often FEELs like its missing on 2 or 3 cylinders. The car vibrates like crazy and rev counter goes up and down 20% at constant speed as engine surges. At intersections it limps out and feels like its going to totally konk out.

I'm probably close to 500,000 kms of driving and never experienced anything like this and usually my cars are 15-20 years old, not 10. I'm very disappointed with this car.

I was told car has 3 month/5000km warranty at time of purchase, its been 7 weeks/3700km now. I contacted dealer about the issue and was told...

"It sounds like your car needs a tune.This is a maintenance issue."

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
I fix stuff!
1553 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 239

Trusted
Vocus
Subscriber

2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 465


  Reply # 1418696 2-Nov-2015 12:11
Send private message

Not sure if the 2005 still uses the stupid coil packs but the 2002 my ex had was a bit like this, the coil pack was on its way out for a while and always felt down on power.

I got a new VDO one from ebay Aussie for $50 delivered to NZ and it took around 45 min to get it out and change it. From the BA they MAY have gone to individual coils however, but that is where I'd start.

I am not sure however if a coil could be considered a consumable, one thing is for sure a modern car like this sure as heck doesn't "need a tune" push them as they are clearly trying to push you out of the 5,000km period.




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

 
 
 
 


31 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 15


  Reply # 1418698 2-Nov-2015 12:14
Send private message

Without knowing the root cause, it may well be a "tune" issue (seriously, don't know of many cars that get "tuned"). If so, it is a maintenance issue. It could be as simple as a plug. It could be something more sinister. I would go back to your dealer and either do it in writing or document your discussion. Confirm with them that they do not wish to have an initial review of the fault. Based on "No", proceed to a trusted mechanic and explain the situation. The problem needs to be fixed, the question will be whether the issue is relevant to the warranties that the dealer is responsible for.
Good examples of where it wouldn't be;
- Tyres 
- Headlight bulb blowing
Where it would;
- Radiator blows
- Electric window switch fails
If the issue was of a type to fall within a defect that the dealer must rectify, then return to the dealer (preferably before repairs are undertaken) and restart your discussion.

1203 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 132


  Reply # 1418699 2-Nov-2015 12:14
Send private message

CGA applies.  A reasonable person would expect an average 10 year old vehicle to last more than 7 weeks after purchase from a dealer.  

Note that IMHO this is regardless if it is "tune" or not (yeah, nah, this sounds like a substantial fault, especially for a relatively modern vehicle, there's not a lot to "tune" in a modern vehicle after all for general running, the ECU should take care of it all), a vehicle should in no fathomable circumstance be regarded as requiring such a serious "tune up" 7 weeks after purchase from a dealer.

Incidentally, their warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on, the CGA gives you more rights.

Sounds like a dodgy dealer I'm afraid, and if after impressing upon them that this is a CGA issue they still don't step up to the plate, you might have to do the whole disputes tribunal thing - http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/motor-vehicle-disputes-tribunal





---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...




1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55


  Reply # 1418719 2-Nov-2015 12:47
Send private message

dickytim: Not sure if the 2005 still uses the stupid coil packs but the 2002 my ex had was a bit like this, the coil pack was on its way out for a while and always felt down on power.

I got a new VDO one from ebay Aussie for $50 delivered to NZ and it took around 45 min to get it out and change it. From the BA they MAY have gone to individual coils however, but that is where I'd start.

I am not sure however if a coil could be considered a consumable, one thing is for sure a modern car like this sure as heck doesn't "need a tune" push them as they are clearly trying to push you out of the 5,000km period.


I have looked at engine pics on the net, and I believe it has coil packs on each spark plug.

I'm not a mechanic - Initially I thought - $35 for set of spark plugs, change them, if that doesn't fix it forums say remove one coil pack at a time and it will make it worse for 5 cylinders, and no change on 6th - the no change one being the faulty one. However the miss is so bad I'd be very surprised if it was only one cylinder. But who knows maybe it is... maybe having one cylinder firing at wrong time can wipe out 50% of the power by fighting the others hence why it feels like its running on 4 cylinders.

People at work have (unanimously) suggested whatever the issue is, it will show up in a plug in diagnostic check (even though engine check light is not on)?



1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55


  Reply # 1418723 2-Nov-2015 12:54
Send private message

I must add, this is my own fault. I've owned 10 Japanese cars and worst "fault/maintenance" issue was crapped out water pump - even that took 400km to totally collapse the second bearing. But every European car/Ford I have owned (6 of them) has had niggly and never ending faults. I did wonder if I was potentially buying into an expensive nightmare getting one of these.



1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55


  Reply # 1418725 2-Nov-2015 12:57
Send private message

doublek69: Without knowing the root cause, it may well be a "tune" issue (seriously, don't know of many cars that get "tuned"). If so, it is a maintenance issue. It could be as simple as a plug. It could be something more sinister. I would go back to your dealer and either do it in writing or document your discussion. Confirm with them that they do not wish to have an initial review of the fault. Based on "No", proceed to a trusted mechanic and explain the situation. The problem needs to be fixed, the question will be whether the issue is relevant to the warranties that the dealer is responsible for..


Just used your post as basis of email, and got the official no we don't care answer... "You need to take the car to workshop you usually go to and get them to look at the vehicle and diagnose what the issue is."

2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 465


  Reply # 1418732 2-Nov-2015 13:06
Send private message

Geese:
dickytim: Not sure if the 2005 still uses the stupid coil packs but the 2002 my ex had was a bit like this, the coil pack was on its way out for a while and always felt down on power.

I got a new VDO one from ebay Aussie for $50 delivered to NZ and it took around 45 min to get it out and change it. From the BA they MAY have gone to individual coils however, but that is where I'd start.

I am not sure however if a coil could be considered a consumable, one thing is for sure a modern car like this sure as heck doesn't "need a tune" push them as they are clearly trying to push you out of the 5,000km period.


I have looked at engine pics on the net, and I believe it has coil packs on each spark plug.

I'm not a mechanic - Initially I thought - $35 for set of spark plugs, change them, if that doesn't fix it forums say remove one coil pack at a time and it will make it worse for 5 cylinders, and no change on 6th - the no change one being the faulty one. However the miss is so bad I'd be very surprised if it was only one cylinder. But who knows maybe it is... maybe having one cylinder firing at wrong time can wipe out 50% of the power by fighting the others hence why it feels like its running on 4 cylinders.

People at work have (unanimously) suggested whatever the issue is, it will show up in a plug in diagnostic check (even though engine check light is not on)?


From what I was reading the faulty ones tended to be number 6! If you have had a coil on its way out for a while changing the plugs isn't a bad idea anyway.

You would be supprised with the effect of one cylinder not working, ours was one not working right, meaning it was getting a weak spark. Unfortunately sometimes these coil faults don't show up on the diagnostic, but definitely will by taking off the coils (or lead depending on the model) one at a time.




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

2471 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 910

Subscriber

  Reply # 1418735 2-Nov-2015 13:09
Send private message

Bear in mind price paid and mileage will factor in to any CGA-type claims. If you only paid $500 for it and it has 300,000km on it, it will be far harder to justify a claim than if you paid $10k and it has 50,000km on it.

If it is something like, spark plugs are due for replacement, it may be difficult to argue unless there was information provided that indicated they had been replaced recently and were not due.




Windows 7 x64 // i5-3570K // 16GB DDR3-1600 // GTX660Ti 2GB // Samsung 830 120GB SSD // OCZ Agility4 120GB SSD // Samsung U28D590D @ 3840x2160 & Asus PB278Q @ 2560x1440
Samsung Galaxy S5 SM-G900I w/Spark

1203 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 132


  Reply # 1418774 2-Nov-2015 13:21
One person supports this post
Send private message

Ok, I wouldn't usually suggest such drastic measures but, and bear with me here.. head over to the Trade Me Message Boards, Motoring section

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Threads.aspx?topic=1

Make a post in which you describe:
  Make, Model, Year, K's, price you paid, how long you've owned it, the fault, and what the dealer you purchased it from has told you
  
Contrary to most of the message boards there, the Motoring one has a number of knowledgeable and respected dealers who will be able to advise you on the best course of action.




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


173 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 1418858 2-Nov-2015 14:36
Send private message

Geese: People at work have (unanimously) suggested whatever the issue is, it will show up in a plug in diagnostic check (even though engine check light is not on)?


If you do go down this route, tip - supercheap auto can do a diagnostic for much cheaper than the factory (that's if you're happy going to supercheap). http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/vehicle-diagnostics/home.aspx 

I had a misfire issue with my Ford Mondeo, took it to Ford for a diagnostic check and ~$150 later (what a rip off!), it said I needed new spark plugs, coil pack, leads etc.  All of which i'm sure only took them 5mins to hook up and find out.

In saying that, I didn't go to supercheap auto, so I'm not sure if they would have concluded the same.  But to me, I would say the codes would be pretty standard so I'm sure it would've pick it up. 

They kindly quoted ~$700 for all the job, which I kindly declined.  Went on the net and ordered the parts for $200 delivered and did it myself.  

Kicked myself for taking the car direct to Ford after finding out how cheap Supercheap Auto could do it. 

Also, my check engine light never came on even tho the engine would misfire...

2696 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1140


  Reply # 1418881 2-Nov-2015 15:05
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geese:
doublek69: Without knowing the root cause, it may well be a "tune" issue (seriously, don't know of many cars that get "tuned"). If so, it is a maintenance issue. It could be as simple as a plug. It could be something more sinister. I would go back to your dealer and either do it in writing or document your discussion. Confirm with them that they do not wish to have an initial review of the fault. Based on "No", proceed to a trusted mechanic and explain the situation. The problem needs to be fixed, the question will be whether the issue is relevant to the warranties that the dealer is responsible for..


Just used your post as basis of email, and got the official no we don't care answer... "You need to take the car to workshop you usually go to and get them to look at the vehicle and diagnose what the issue is."


Before making a mountain out of a molehill...that's exactly what I would have suggested, and don't see that immediately as a 'dodgy' dealer as some are jumping to the conclusion of.  Take it to a mechanic (your choice) and get the fault properly diagnosed.  If it is a routine maintenance issue then they can fix it for you at your cost.  If its a defect in the vehicle get the workshop to detail the work required and estimated price and take that to the dealer.



   




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



1554 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 475

Subscriber

  Reply # 1418920 2-Nov-2015 15:44
Send private message

Geese:
doublek69: Without knowing the root cause, it may well be a "tune" issue (seriously, don't know of many cars that get "tuned"). If so, it is a maintenance issue. It could be as simple as a plug. It could be something more sinister. I would go back to your dealer and either do it in writing or document your discussion. Confirm with them that they do not wish to have an initial review of the fault. Based on "No", proceed to a trusted mechanic and explain the situation. The problem needs to be fixed, the question will be whether the issue is relevant to the warranties that the dealer is responsible for..


Just used your post as basis of email, and got the official no we don't care answer... "You need to take the car to workshop you usually go to and get them to look at the vehicle and diagnose what the issue is."


Before you do that reply to them detailing that you will take it to your mechanic however if it is a fault you will be seeking to recover your costs from the dealer, as you are entitled to under New Zealand consumer law. Advise them that you will proceed on this basis unless they tell you otherwise. A possible alternative would be the dealer doing the diagnosis which you would also accept.

Basically you are laying the groundwork for any claim under the cga, while giving the seller the first option to remedy the fault.



1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55


  Reply # 1419095 2-Nov-2015 18:59
Send private message

There seems to be a resolution, not sure if its a one off or more sinister...

After going around a few auto electricians and being told the issue won't show up on diagnostics - will require good old fashion play around, I decided to do what I said above with help of a friend, but the other way around.

We took the coil plugs off one at a time, and there was surprisingly little clear difference on or off on any cylinder, but we thought cylinder 3 had the least noticeable change. Then with the help of another guy pulled all the coils off and noticed #3 coil was wet, and there was orangy crusty stuff around the plug and on the coil. We used compressed air to blow the water out and there was some water in the coil's "lead". Removed all the plugs and they all looked great condition. Started the car, absolutely fine.

So the question now is, could coolant (orange Ford coolant) be leaking somewhere and pooling in the #3 spark plug cavity? Or is it co-incidence it looks orange - and may actually have been caused by the engine being steam cleaned 7 weeks ago? The spark plug cover is pretty well o-ringed with good gasket, and would surprise me that the water would have only got in to one spark plug cavity.

1827 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 574

Subscriber

  Reply # 1419124 2-Nov-2015 19:11
Send private message

Yes coolant could easily leak into just 1 spark plug cavity.





 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Symantec protects data everywhere with Information Centric Security
Posted 21-Sep-2017 15:33


FUJIFILM introduces X-E3 mirrorless camera with wireless connectivity
Posted 18-Sep-2017 13:53


Vodafone announces new plans with bigger data bundles
Posted 15-Sep-2017 10:51


Skinny launches phone with support for te reo Maori
Posted 14-Sep-2017 08:39


If Vodafone dropping mail worries you, you’re doing online wrong
Posted 11-Sep-2017 13:54


Vodafone New Zealand deploy live 400 gigabit system
Posted 11-Sep-2017 11:07


OPPO camera phones now available at PB Tech
Posted 11-Sep-2017 09:56


Norton Wi-Fi Privacy — Easy, flawed VPN
Posted 11-Sep-2017 09:48


Lenovo reveals new ThinkPad A Series
Posted 8-Sep-2017 14:37


Huawei passes Apple for the first time to capture the second spot globally
Posted 8-Sep-2017 10:45


Vodafone initiative enhances te reo Maori pronunciation on Google Maps
Posted 8-Sep-2017 10:40


Voyager Internet expand local internet phone services company with Conversant acquisition
Posted 6-Sep-2017 18:27


NOW Expands in to Tauranga
Posted 5-Sep-2017 18:16


Windows 10 Fall Creators Update coming Oct. 17
Posted 4-Sep-2017 14:10


Garmin introduce Garmin vivoactive 3
Posted 1-Sep-2017 18:38



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.