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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1430265 18-Nov-2015 11:24
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When I learned to drive the only choice we had was manual Lada. There were no other option but to use the hand brake. That also formed part of the DL test.

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  Reply # 1430916 19-Nov-2015 08:53
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the op said he was learning to "drive" , therefore learning in an auto is an incomplete learning experience.
I've yet to see any evidence that an auto is more efficient and there is no evidence what so ever that an auto offers more weigh transfer control, which os critical to handling of a vehicle, on the contrary it offers less.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1431043 19-Nov-2015 11:34
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turnin: the op said he was learning to "drive" , therefore learning in an auto is an incomplete learning experience.
I've yet to see any evidence that an auto is more efficient and there is no evidence what so ever that an auto offers more weigh transfer control, which os critical to handling of a vehicle, on the contrary it offers less.


Nobody has said these things.  Also they are irrelevant.  The OP is not learning to win races on a track by exhibiting stellar vehicle control under extreme conditions, he is learning to operate a vehicle within safe and reasonable limits on a public road.

There are benefits to learning to drive a manual, for example if you need to hire a van/truck or use a company car which is manual, but there's no reason you cannot pick it up later on when you have the hang of obeying the road rules, etc. as it appears the OP is doing.  It's just another thing to get your head around while learning to drive.

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  Reply # 1431063 19-Nov-2015 12:08
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In my case, the manual Polo was $2000 cheaper, and had better fuel efficiency.  The other driver in the household also wants to keep driving a manual so as to not forget how to do it. From UK where the majority of cars were manual.



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  Reply # 1431070 19-Nov-2015 12:17
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In my audi since it had huge amounts of low town torque even on idle i can just let the clutch out slowly on a really steep hill without and handbrake or accelerator and no roll back.

Usually on a steep hill i would let the clutch out till it it then shuffle across.

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  Reply # 1431072 19-Nov-2015 12:22
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jonb: The other driver in the household also wants to keep driving a manual so as to not forget how to do it.


It's like riding a bike, you don't forget.  I'd not driven manual for about 5 years, hopped in a manual truck the other day and drove it all around town for about 4 hours with no problems.

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  Reply # 1431073 19-Nov-2015 12:22
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ubergeeknz:
turnin: the op said he was learning to "drive" , therefore learning in an auto is an incomplete learning experience.
I've yet to see any evidence that an auto is more efficient and there is no evidence what so ever that an auto offers more weigh transfer control, which os critical to handling of a vehicle, on the contrary it offers less.


Nobody has said these things.  Also they are irrelevant.  The OP is not learning to win races on a track by exhibiting stellar vehicle control under extreme conditions, he is learning to operate a vehicle within safe and reasonable limits on a public road.

There are benefits to learning to drive a manual, for example if you need to hire a van/truck or use a company car which is manual, but there's no reason you cannot pick it up later on when you have the hang of obeying the road rules, etc. as it appears the OP is doing.  It's just another thing to get your head around while learning to drive.


Agreed.

In my case, I learned how to actually drive a car in an automatic Corolla first.  Once the road rules and driving were second nature, I dropped myself in a manual.

I felt this helped as I was forced to do it on my own on a busy Auckland morning.  Knowing the road rules and the the thought patterns of other drivers vastly helped with the fluster  I knew how to judge gaps properly, following distances and how to park and to park away from other people.  It helped immensely during my 5 speed learning experience.

If I were starting again, I'd probably start in a manual.  If I were teaching someone else who was brand new to driving, I'd start them in a manual.  But if I felt they were focusing too much on driving and not on other people, I'd probably switch them until they were confident with driving.





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  Reply # 1431096 19-Nov-2015 13:26
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Rental Cars in Europe (e.g. Spain) are much cheaper if they are manual (e.g. $25 vs $45). But they will be left hand side steering wheel and your handbrake and gear control will be on your right.

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  Reply # 1431304 19-Nov-2015 18:35
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ubergeeknz:
turnin: the op said he was learning to "drive" , therefore learning in an auto is an incomplete learning experience.
I've yet to see any evidence that an auto is more efficient and there is no evidence what so ever that an auto offers more weigh transfer control, which os critical to handling of a vehicle, on the contrary it offers less.


Nobody has said these things.  Also they are irrelevant.  The OP is not learning to win races on a track by exhibiting stellar vehicle control under extreme conditions, he is learning to operate a vehicle within safe and reasonable limits on a public road.

There are benefits to learning to drive a manual, for example if you need to hire a van/truck or use a company car which is manual, but there's no reason you cannot pick it up later on when you have the hang of obeying the road rules, etc. as it appears the OP is doing.  It's just another thing to get your head around while learning to drive.


For a start the OP asked how to address throttle and brakes in a manual transmission vehicle when taking off uphill, introducing an auto into the discussion was the irrelevant part.

Understanding Weight transfer and vehicle dynamics is not reserved for the domain of motorsport, nor should it be ,they are fundamentally THE most important things to learn when learning to drive.
Weight transfer is critical to understanding grip and traction, understanding how the accelerator can change weight front to rear and hence traction on the relevant footprints. The huge effects of lifting off the throttle mid corner on the line a vehicle will take and why.

Its no good "picking up these things later on", these should be the basis that all knowledge acquired later on is built upon.
having an understanding of weight transfer and vehicle dynamics does not mean you have to travel fast or be into motorsport, nobody said that either, except you. But these extreme conditions you speak off spring up rapidly in everyday situations, usually before and causative to a crash, when you have to slow down and change direction quickly, skipping on fundamentals is dangerous.
You simply don't learn those fundamentals in an auto because engine braking and weighting of the front suspension under deceleration is not only reduced but it is sporadic in the sense that there are hydraulic and electronic factors that a driver can't detect or predict




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  Reply # 1431479 20-Nov-2015 04:04
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RUKI: But they will be left hand side steering wheel and your handbrake and gear control will be on your right.


As they should be ;) Operating the gear with your dominant hand is easier (given that most people are right handed).

But I get that if you are used to driving on the left side it adds to challenge that you have to deal with the gear box "on the wrong side".

I know it didn't help for me to have to deal with the gear box being on the left, the turn signal being on another leaver (because of the car model) and everything being on the "wrong" side, when I first started driving here in NZ. It did make me decide to get an automatic, which has been helpful.

Gotten to the stage now that I wouldn't mind driving a manual here, and we rented a manual when we were in Scotland this year. Went fairly well, and I am sure a little more practise with "the wrong hand/arm" and it will feel as natural as it does using my right hand to change gears when I drive in Norway.




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  Reply # 1431513 20-Nov-2015 08:20
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jarledb: ... Operating the gear with your dominant hand is easier (given that most people are right handed). .


Most Geeks whom I know are left-handed :-)

I am curious what made the owner of that car to mod it that way:

http://geekologie.com/2013/09/bad-ideas-car-expertly-modded-to-drive-f.php






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  Reply # 1431519 20-Nov-2015 08:29
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turnin:
Understanding Weight transfer and vehicle dynamics is not reserved for the domain of motorsport, nor should it be ,they are fundamentally THE most important things to learn when learning to drive.



Rubbish

The most important thing to learn when driving is the situational awareness and observational skills so that you can anticipate events and avoid any situation where marginal handling and weight transfer are relevant

Getting learners' attention off the clutch and gear lever and onto the road and other users is a good way to achieve this

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  Reply # 1431599 20-Nov-2015 10:43
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turnin: 


If you require the minute handling benefits afforded by a manual transmission to adequately control your vehicle on a public road, I have serious questions about whether you should be allowed to drive on that road.

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  Reply # 1431672 20-Nov-2015 13:06
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shk292:
The most important thing to learn when driving is the situational awareness and observational skills so that you can anticipate events ....
Getting learners' attention off the clutch and gear lever and onto the road and other users is a good way to achieve this


Add to that common mistake of newbies looking at the road just in the front of the vehicle and not at the road far ahead...

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  Reply # 1432108 21-Nov-2015 11:10
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shk292:
turnin:
Understanding Weight transfer and vehicle dynamics is not reserved for the domain of motorsport, nor should it be ,they are fundamentally THE most important things to learn when learning to drive.



Rubbish

The most important thing to learn when driving is the situational awareness and observational skills so that you can anticipate events and avoid any situation where marginal handling and weight transfer are relevant

Getting learners' attention off the clutch and gear lever and onto the road and other users is a good way to achieve this


The fact that you think modes of weight transfer is not an important part of a drivers situational awareness and that weight transfer has marginal effects is concerning. Sorry but you are completely wrong.

People who lose control of cars and make incorrect positioning and handling decisions do so out of two things , adrenalin /fear ( and late visual awareness is part of that ) and their lack of understanding of vehicle dynamics , tyres suspension and weight giving rise to grip and traction variations. (Almost never taught in nz )

There was a driving school in ardmore that develiped and taught learners clutch control faster than any other by getting them to learn clutch control first. Then taught braking with and without abs , then weight transfer modes and the issues with diagonal. Then taught vision techniques and THEN taught road rules.
You have to understand a tool before you concentrate on the craft.

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