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Batman
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  #1460295 2-Jan-2016 18:48
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I think the elephant in the room is the Arthur's Pass crash.

There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.

The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Jase2985
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  #1460307 2-Jan-2016 19:05
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joker97:
The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


thats why there are speed advisory signs on those roads/corners

and given its was a bus it has a speed limit of 90kph not 100kph like you are implying in your post which means under the lower speed limit it shouldnt have been doing more than 94kph

 
 
 
 


Dratsab
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  #1460370 2-Jan-2016 20:57
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eracode:
joker97: He was caught because the Police BOSS was in the queue.

We drive behind these sords every day without the police making any fuss. And yes it's cliche by now but they almost always guaranteed to floor the accelerator when they see "400m to passing lane".


How do you know the Police boss was in the queue? All the article says is that the Police boss issued a reminder to motorists.

You need to read the article joker97 linked to after freitasm's post.

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  #1460375 2-Jan-2016 21:27
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Jase2985:
joker97:
The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


thats why there are speed advisory signs on those roads/corners


If speed *advisory* signs are what make it safe, why do we need speed limits?


and given its was a bus it has a speed limit of 90kph not 100kph like you are implying in your post which means under the lower speed limit it shouldnt have been doing more than 94kph


Bus speed limits are the same as cars... trucks have lower limits, but buses don't.


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  #1460379 2-Jan-2016 21:32
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joker97: I think the elephant in the room is the Arthur's Pass crash.

There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.

The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


The Police did not place a blanket rule of 100kph they don't make laws. Parliament legislated the maximum of 100kph.

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  #1460380 2-Jan-2016 21:33
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joker97:
There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.


The bus was going to the West Coast... i.e. through a series of DOWNHILL 35k slalom bends. (Assuming that the 35K bends still exist... I haven't been through the Otira Gorge since I walked it (uphill, in the pouring rain, in winter) back in the 1970s, when it still had tunnels. The huge viaduct, which I assume consists of sweeping 100K curves, wasn't built then).


scuwp
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  #1460382 2-Jan-2016 21:35
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Speed limits are the MAXIMUM speed you may travel. Drivers should drive to the conditions and travel at a slower speed when prudent. If you can't figure that out then please hand in your license.

Any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes has a reduced 90 km/h speed limit, including buses AFAIK

Yet again the media have jumped on the very first thing following the bus crash and have made it the "cause". Case closed. The police will take several weeks to look at all the evidence. Rarely is there a single contributing factor, but let's not let a good story get on the way of a proper investigation




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



 
 
 
 


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  #1460383 2-Jan-2016 21:36
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MikeB4:
joker97: I think the elephant in the room is the Arthur's Pass crash.

There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.

The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


The Police did not place a blanket rule of 100kph they don't make laws. Parliament legislated the maximum of 100kph.


Correct. Parliament putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50. 

sdav
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  #1460385 2-Jan-2016 21:40

joker97: I think the elephant in the room is the Arthur's Pass crash.

There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.

The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


Not targeting you directly, but prompts my thoughts - I hate this line of thought and the public's focus on 104. The police are not saying sit at 104km/h on a straight or as you go around a 75km/h posted corner.

They have a hard time trying to get the message across - partly their fault, but mostly because people get all butthurt and focus on stupid little points ("revenue gathering", "some roads are safe above 100km/h" etc). They can only hammer home the same things they see in all their serious crashes. At the end of the day the speed determines the outcome.

If I'm in a 100km/h area and approach a tight corner and take it too fast and crash (whether too fast is 60km/h or 104/km) it doesn't matter. Speed was a factor (my skill also) and it's my fault, and I could get charged for careless use.

I will never understand why we get so hung up on little numbers. Maybe the police will change there message again soon.

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  #1460387 2-Jan-2016 21:43
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Speed limits are the MAXIMUM speed you may travel. Drivers should drive to the conditions and travel at a slower speed when prudent. If you can't figure that out then please hand in your license.


But if it is prudent to travel at a higher speed, and you *can* figure that out, then why shouldn't you? Some arbitrary speed selected by Parliament does not make it safe.


Any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes has a reduced 90 km/h speed limit, including buses AFAIK


When I had my bus driver's licence back in the 1990s, the limit for buses was 100kph. I don't believe it has changed since.


Yet again the media have jumped on the very first thing following the bus crash and have made it the "cause". Case closed. The police will take several weeks to look at all the evidence. Rarely is there a single contributing factor, but let's not let a good story get on the way of a proper investigation


Agreed! I am a little surprised that the media hasn't decided the tourist driving the car was at fault.


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  #1460395 2-Jan-2016 21:45
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frankv:
MikeB4:
joker97: I think the elephant in the room is the Arthur's Pass crash.

There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.

The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


The Police did not place a blanket rule of 100kph they don't make laws. Parliament legislated the maximum of 100kph.


Correct. Parliament putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50. 


If a road is not suitable or conditions are such that the maximum is not appropriate the law prescribes that a lower speed be used.

MikeB4
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  #1460396 2-Jan-2016 21:48
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frankv:
Speed limits are the MAXIMUM speed you may travel. Drivers should drive to the conditions and travel at a slower speed when prudent. If you can't figure that out then please hand in your license.


But if it is prudent to travel at a higher speed, and you *can* figure that out, then why shouldn't you? Some arbitrary speed selected by Parliament does not make it safe.


Any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes has a reduced 90 km/h speed limit, including buses AFAIK


When I had my bus driver's licence back in the 1990s, the limit for buses was 100kph. I don't believe it has changed since.


Yet again the media have jumped on the very first thing following the bus crash and have made it the "cause". Case closed. The police will take several weeks to look at all the evidence. Rarely is there a single contributing factor, but let's not let a good story get on the way of a proper investigation


Agreed! I am a little surprised that the media hasn't decided the tourist driving the car was at fault.



The Law is 100kph maximum very simple, if you don't want to comply then don't drive.

Batman
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  #1460397 2-Jan-2016 21:49
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frankv:
joker97:
There is anecdotal evidence that the bus driver drove "too fast". I bet he was well under 104 through the series of uphill 35k slalom bends.


The bus was going to the West Coast... i.e. through a series of DOWNHILL 35k slalom bends. (Assuming that the 35K bends still exist... I haven't been through the Otira Gorge since I walked it (uphill, in the pouring rain, in winter) back in the 1970s, when it still had tunnels. The huge viaduct, which I assume consists of sweeping 100K curves, wasn't built then).



Some photos I looked at looked like uphill. But I took another look and it could well be downhill.
If it's downhill it could be the brakes fading or worse, boiling.
But the SCU is investigating. 




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Jase2985
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  #1460399 2-Jan-2016 21:51
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frankv:
Jase2985:
joker97:
The police putting a blanket rule of 100 is just ridiculous. Some roads you can safely go way well above 100. Some roads that have a 100 limit you can barely do 50.


thats why there are speed advisory signs on those roads/corners


If speed *advisory* signs are what make it safe, why do we need speed limits?


and given its was a bus it has a speed limit of 90kph not 100kph like you are implying in your post which means under the lower speed limit it shouldnt have been doing more than 94kph


Bus speed limits are the same as cars... trucks have lower limits, but buses don't.



@frankv got a link to the bus thing, as the road code says any vehicle over 3500kgs gross laden weight has a max speed of 90kph, so pretty much anything over a 21 seater would fall into that when empty.

Speed advisorys dont make it safe they tell to how fast to drive to make it safe. you choose weather or not you want to follow that. its better than havig the speed limit change for each corner.

frankv
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  #1460400 2-Jan-2016 21:51
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sdav: They can only hammer home the same things they see in all their serious crashes. At the end of the day the speed determines the outcome.


This is falling for the simplistic sound-bite propaganda. At the end of the day, the speed AT IMPACT (*if* there is an impact) is what determines the outcome.


I will never understand why we get so hung up on little numbers. Maybe the police will change there message again soon.


The problem is that the Police are hung up on numbers. 100kph good, 101kph bad. Safe driving is irrelevant. Actual dangerous driving (e.g. tailgating) is ignored.

It's not about the message. That's just superficial window-dressing. It's about the attitude behind the message.



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