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surfisup1000
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  #1462128 6-Jan-2016 09:11
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keewee01: It would be very interesting to know in all cases of fatalities and also in non-fatal accedients whether worrying about the 4lm/hr tolerance and if consantly watching their speed rather than the road was a factor. It's a shame that the dead won't give up that information as it could be quite interesting.


Yep, i'm always constantly watching my speedo now as the car easily drifts between 90 and 110. And on passing lanes, cops ping you for going 105kph which makes it nigh on impossible to get past as slower drivers always speed up on them --- it is a psychological effect, the wider the road the slower you think you are going . 

Jase2985
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  #1462134 6-Jan-2016 09:19
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surfisup1000:
keewee01: It would be very interesting to know in all cases of fatalities and also in non-fatal accedients whether worrying about the 4lm/hr tolerance and if consantly watching their speed rather than the road was a factor. It's a shame that the dead won't give up that information as it could be quite interesting.


Yep, i'm always constantly watching my speedo now as the car easily drifts between 90 and 110. And on passing lanes, cops ping you for going 105kph which makes it nigh on impossible to get past as slower drivers always speed up on them --- it is a psychological effect, the wider the road the slower you think you are going . 


i use cruise control so dont spend all day looking at my speedo :)

but i was noticed by a highway patrol car going about 110 on a passing lane and he used discretion and didnt come after me because he could see i was passing/just finished passing someone.

i did 2500km over summer from Auckland to ashburton, saw 20+ cops and 4 vans had zero issues. all but 1 of those cops had someone pulled over and most people were sensible about their driving on the roads.

 
 
 
 


scuwp
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  #1462136 6-Jan-2016 09:21
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Geektastic:
joker97:
ScuL: I believe I've seen in a report that the new Waikato Expressway sections are being built to 130km/h standards to make them "future proof".


I wonder what these standards are?
- one-way dual carriage
- smooth seal
- lane width
- bank radius
- bank camber
- water clearance
-?

Which from driving in Australia, their 130k roads meets none of these other than bank radius, and maybe smooth seal when it's undamaged


The odd thing is that the construction standards for countries with outstanding high speed roads such as Germany, France and the UK are all available to buy for next to nothing. We could buy the design manuals and implement them next week.

Or...we could reinvent the wheel.


The design manuals/standards are already there.  It's the way that speed limits are set according to those designs, and consistency of those decisions across the various national and regional road controlling authorities that is in the process of changing as part of the Safer Systems approach.  I am not sure if this is the latest but if you really wanted a read:
http://www.saferjourneys.govt.nz/assets/safer-speeds-programme.pdf

TLDR:

 

  • Speed limits will be set according to the nature and use of the roadway
  • Guidelines for setting speed limits will be consistent across the county 
  • Future roads and where fiscally prudent existing roads will be (re)designed with the appropriate speed limit in mind for its use (i.e. it will be obvious to the driver what the speed limit is just by the design of the road and the environment) 
  • Some speed limits may go up, others may go down (i.e. 40 km/h limits in residential areas that are not main feeder routes)
It's been a while since I have been involved in this area but I am fairly certain the basic concepts haven't changed.  





Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



ScuL
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  #1462243 6-Jan-2016 12:09
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As far as I can see KiwiRAP rating 4 means:
* Medians divided
* Good horizontal alignment
* Safe roadside
* Road lanes wider than 3.4m
* Sealed shoulders wider than 1.2m
* Good/excellent delineation

There are some further guidelines about signalisation, reflective posts / guard rails and the likes but can't quite find them at the moment

PS: I wholly support that "Safer Speeds" guide as posted above.. This is exactly what needs to happen. Move away from the blanket 50 and 100km/h zones.




Gigabit


Geektastic
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  #1465331 7-Jan-2016 19:19
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scuwp:
Geektastic:
joker97:
ScuL: I believe I've seen in a report that the new Waikato Expressway sections are being built to 130km/h standards to make them "future proof".


I wonder what these standards are?
- one-way dual carriage
- smooth seal
- lane width
- bank radius
- bank camber
- water clearance
-?

Which from driving in Australia, their 130k roads meets none of these other than bank radius, and maybe smooth seal when it's undamaged


The odd thing is that the construction standards for countries with outstanding high speed roads such as Germany, France and the UK are all available to buy for next to nothing. We could buy the design manuals and implement them next week.

Or...we could reinvent the wheel.


The design manuals/standards are already there.  It's the way that speed limits are set according to those designs, and consistency of those decisions across the various national and regional road controlling authorities that is in the process of changing as part of the Safer Systems approach.  I am not sure if this is the latest but if you really wanted a read:
http://www.saferjourneys.govt.nz/assets/safer-speeds-programme.pdf

TLDR:

 

  • Speed limits will be set according to the nature and use of the roadway
  • Guidelines for setting speed limits will be consistent across the county 
  • Future roads and where fiscally prudent existing roads will be (re)designed with the appropriate speed limit in mind for its use (i.e. it will be obvious to the driver what the speed limit is just by the design of the road and the environment) 
  • Some speed limits may go up, others may go down (i.e. 40 km/h limits in residential areas that are not main feeder routes)
It's been a while since I have been involved in this area but I am fairly certain the basic concepts haven't changed.  



I'm sure we do have them.

My point is that other countries build better roads to different standards that safely enable faster travel.

We could copy them.





gzt

gzt
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  #1465451 7-Jan-2016 21:57
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Maybe. There could be more to it like geology etc. Good question for an NZ road engineer..

Geektastic
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  #1465469 7-Jan-2016 22:46
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gzt: Maybe. There could be more to it like geology etc. Good question for an NZ road engineer..


Yeah. Sure. We are THAT unique. Japan has earthquakes AND fast trains, fast roads etc. To name but one. Italy has fast roads AND volcanoes. California has fast roads AND earthquakes. Wales has motorways AND mountains. Switzerland has motorways AND mountains AND snow AND rockfalls.

Etc.





 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #1465481 7-Jan-2016 23:27
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It's still a good question. There is probably a long history of the differences in road engineering.

But what amazes me is the speed of actual construction of some roads built overseas. It it just perception or do we take significantly longer for some reason?

Edit: I'm talking about actual construction not planning process..

Geektastic
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  #1465681 8-Jan-2016 10:10
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gzt: It's still a good question. There is probably a long history of the differences in road engineering.

But what amazes me is the speed of actual construction of some roads built overseas. It it just perception or do we take significantly longer for some reason?

Edit: I'm talking about actual construction not planning process..


I worked in civils for a while in the UK. Yes, it really DOES take longer here. A lot longer.

One reason is contract structure. I had a row with our local roading manager here when the road outside our house was taking months instead of a couple of weeks for a simple job. When I asked whether the roading company was being penalised under the contract for late delivery, he said "oh we don't use those contracts in New Zealand".

Typical UK contract would have a price for delivery within X weeks. Then penalties for X+Y weeks and bonuses for X-Y weeks. Thus providing an incentive to get the f on with it!

Another is the apparent lack of any integration. The same contract had a gap of 8 weeks between the road surface being "finished" and the road lines being repainted. Reason? The company that did one job does not do the other related job, so we had to wait for a separate contractor to fit it in to their schedule....

Another is working practices. Take for example the improvements to the Rimutaka Hill road a few years ago. In summer, we have daylight until at least 2030 hrs. Yet all workers were off site by 1700, wasting at least the equivalent of a day a week in working daylight. Also, work can continue overnight with the use of area lighting (anyone who has driven in Europe will have seen roadworks taking place at night on important roads) but here it does not. Also work can be done on Saturday and Sunday by simple employment of shift work. Rarely will you see that either, wasting another 100+ days a year.

As for using actual humans to turn Stop/Go signs for work that lasts more than an hour, don't get me started on the waste and expense of that - or the number of people habitually seen at roadworks standing around doing SFA!





Kyanar
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  #1465949 8-Jan-2016 15:12
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Geektastic:

The odd thing is that the construction standards for countries with outstanding high speed roads such as Germany, France and the UK are all available to buy for next to nothing. We could buy the design manuals and implement them next week.

Or...we could reinvent the wheel.


New Zealand utilises AustRoads standards, which permit roadways up to 130km/hr already. The decision to limit speeds is not based on the standards which NZTA subscribes to, but rather a conscious decision to either limit speeds to below the roadway's rated speeds or to construct to a lesser standard. There's absolutely no need to go spending money buying another set of standards to tell NZTA what they already know.

Curiously, I was in AKL over the new year and noticed that Ti Rakau Drive now has a stretch of road with a 60km/h limit, which is a major shift from the usual policy of 50km/h urban, 100km/h rural. Is this a sign that the councils and/or NZTA are starting to embrace more varied speed limits where practical?

MikeB4
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  #1465958 8-Jan-2016 15:32
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Geektastic:
I'm sure we do have them.

My point is that other countries build better roads to different standards that safely enable faster travel.

We could copy them.


I am sure the Government would build better roads if it had the funds to do so, NZ has a similar amount of roads as the UK however, the UK has 64million to support it
NZ has 4.5 million.
I am not sure many in NZ would be happy to pay higher taxation and RUC's in order to build far better roads more quickly. I believe the NZ government is doing a good
job with the resources it has available.

The best thing we can do is do a better job driving to the conditions we have. Also, the speed limit on many rural and urban roads needs to be reduced.

Geektastic
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  #1465964 8-Jan-2016 15:37
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
I'm sure we do have them.

My point is that other countries build better roads to different standards that safely enable faster travel.

We could copy them.


I am sure the Government would build better roads if it had the funds to do so, NZ has a similar amount of roads as the UK however, the UK has 64million to support it
NZ has 4.5 million.
I am not sure many in NZ would be happy to pay higher taxation and RUC's in order to build far better roads more quickly. I believe the NZ government is doing a good
job with the resources it has available.

The best thing we can do is do a better job driving to the conditions we have. Also, the speed limit on many rural and urban roads needs to be reduced.


I'd be happy to pay more for that - as long as I could pay less for some of the other rubbish they waste money on...!





MikeB4
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  #1465969 8-Jan-2016 15:40
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
I'm sure we do have them.

My point is that other countries build better roads to different standards that safely enable faster travel.

We could copy them.


I am sure the Government would build better roads if it had the funds to do so, NZ has a similar amount of roads as the UK however, the UK has 64million to support it
NZ has 4.5 million.
I am not sure many in NZ would be happy to pay higher taxation and RUC's in order to build far better roads more quickly. I believe the NZ government is doing a good
job with the resources it has available.

The best thing we can do is do a better job driving to the conditions we have. Also, the speed limit on many rural and urban roads needs to be reduced.


I'd be happy to pay more for that - as long as I could pay less for some of the other rubbish they waste money on...!


One mans rubbish is another's treasure. What would the government cut to increase road infrastructure spending... defence, Education, health?

Stu

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  #1466001 8-Jan-2016 16:10
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Kyanar: Curiously, I was in AKL over the new year and noticed that Ti Rakau Drive now has a stretch of road with a 60km/h limit, which is a major shift from the usual policy of 50km/h urban, 100km/h rural. Is this a sign that the councils and/or NZTA are starting to embrace more varied speed limits where practical?


There have been a number of 60km/h stretches around Auckland for a while now. Te Irirangi Drive between Manukau and Botany has 60km/h and 80km/h stretches.




Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

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paulchinnz
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  #1466176 8-Jan-2016 19:44
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Main artery between Chch airport and city centre also 60 km/h for substantial portion, although frequent roadworks since earthquakes means some segments often actually 30 km/h limit.

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