Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24

gzt

gzt
17001 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470244 13-Jan-2016 18:45
Send private message

Imho that regime is so wide open to abuse it is better to ticket the car no demerits and that's that. Tldr; the butler did it.



Rikkitic
Awrrr
18608 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470254 13-Jan-2016 18:57
Send private message

Can't help wondering what would happen in court if the driver and passenger had each been wearing a mask of the other's face and denied being the one responsible.





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Batman
Mad Scientist
29724 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1470287 13-Jan-2016 19:10
Send private message

Rikkitic: Can't help wondering what would happen in court if the driver and passenger had each been wearing a mask of the other's face and denied being the one responsible.



That would so make it all the way to Judge Judy!



  #1470306 13-Jan-2016 19:26
Send private message

Geektastic:
Jase2985:
Geektastic:
Jase2985: how do you issue points via a speed camera If you cant prove who was driving?

my son could be 10 points from being disqualified and I could say it was me driving, there is no proof of that


Easy. The points always go to the car owner unless they can prove someone else was driving.


but how can you prove that? its something that can lead to someone loosing their liscence

guilty until proven innocent, not the way it is suppose to work


It's really simple. Many countries manage to do it and I am sure NZ can do so too.

1) YOU the car owner are responsible for what happens to your car. This includes speeding.

2) The ticket arrives addressed to you. You can fill it is saying "Not me - My wife/son/daughter/neighbour" AND IF YOU LIE YOU COMMIT PERJURY

3) The person you said was driving gets the ticket. They can defend it if they choose and one defence could be "I wasn't driving - he was" in which case the court will decide which of you is a lying toe rag

4) Most modern cameras photograph the driver and passenger. This makes lying a lot harder!


and how can you prove they lied? there is no practical way to do that.

the letter you currently get requires you to sign to say it wasnt you but also requires a JP/sworn officer etc to also counter sign.

and a photo proves nothing, the people who take the photos and issue the tickets have no clue whos in the car.

demerit points will make it so some of the more dodgy people end up shuffling the points round to people who have less points so they wont end up over the 100 point limit.

adds more administrive overhead to the process, and more cost to the police force who already dont have enough money.

i dont foresee it happening in the near/mid term future

Geektastic
17935 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1470395 13-Jan-2016 21:38
Send private message

Rikkitic: Can't help wondering what would happen in court if the driver and passenger had each been wearing a mask of the other's face and denied being the one responsible.



The judge would simply fine both of them for lying to the court I suspect. Possibly even imprison them for perjury. You all seem to think that these things have never been tried! The system works very well.

Combined with the fact that speeding offences will add rapidly to your insurance bill in pretty much every country other than NZ, it becomes clearer why the death rates in NZ are higher than they should be. Bad roads, bad driver education, poor attitude, little or no consequences and so on.

Interesting that so many think that the sensible thing to do is to attempt to find ways to outsmart the law instead of just not speeding....

This is from an article in a UK paper (Note with reference to penalty points (demerit points here) you will lose your licence when you get 12 points, not 100):

"When a car is caught on a speed camera, the police will find out the address of the owner from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, and send them a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) and a request to provide driver details in the post. The NIP and the request to provide driver details are two different legal documents but the almost always appear on the same piece of paper. If you’re the owner, you’ll receive this, even if you weren’t the one driving at the time.

If that’s the case, you can fill out a part of the NIP which allows you to notify the police of the name and address of the person who was driving at the time. Be aware, however, that doing so falsely is an offence in itself, and can lead to a prison sentence for perverting the course of justice (or, at the very least, a prosecution for failing to provide driver details, which carries a minimum six-point penalty or a disqualification from driving).

If you were the driver at the time, however, and you accept that you were at fault, you send your details back, at which point the police will either send you an an offer to attend a speed awareness course, a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or a court summons, depending on how fast you were going.

If you agree that you were driving but you dispute that you were speeding then you should reply to the police admitting that you were driving. Then if the police offer a speed awareness course or a fixed penalty you should not accept. The police will send a postal requisition (used to be called a court summons) and you'll have to take your case to the magistrates.

If you are caught by an officer in person, however, he or she will either issue you with an FPN, or advise you that you will receive a court summons, depending on the severity of your offence. You don’t have to accept the FPN – indeed, you have 28 days to reject it – but if you do reject it, you will have to go to court to plead your case. "

Followed by (double the numbers to get approx NZ$ figures for the fines) 

"What’s the penalty?

An FPN for speeding will result in three points on your driving licence and a £100 fine.

However, if your speed was sufficiently high to land you in court – or if you reject the FPN – the penalties could be much worse; the maximum fine for speeding is £1,000 (or £2,500 on the motorway), and your licence could be revoked."







gzt

gzt
17001 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470419 13-Jan-2016 21:59
Send private message

What is in the "speed awareness course" option and how does that work in practice?

Bung
6399 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #1470480 13-Jan-2016 23:38
Send private message

Jase2985:
paulchinnz:
Anyone know what error is associated with speed cameras e.g. 1%? 5%?


next to nothing at all

"Accuracy better than 1 Kmh for all modes" for the Stalker DSR

https://www.fyi.org.nz/request/speed_measuring_equipment
down the bottom there are some links to manuals and publications


The Police trot out the local ESR?? certification that the Stalker is accurate to 1km/h. The manufacturer's claim is for " +1, -2 mph stationary, ±2 mph moving +2 / –3 km/h stationary, ±3 km/h moving" The difference may be explained in the specs for Stalker's photo unit where the accuracy of the radar section is quoted as 1km/h in LABORATORY conditions and 3km/h in operating conditions.

 
 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Hatch (affiliate link).
frankv
5678 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470501 14-Jan-2016 06:52
Send private message

So you could be fined if you were driving at 102kph.


Batman
Mad Scientist
29724 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1470504 14-Jan-2016 07:25
Send private message

frankv: So you could be fined if you were driving at 102kph.



You could. You could also be fined going at 70. But in both cases, they won't fine you. You have more chance of getting fined dropping a mate off at Auckland Uni.

paulchinnz
Circumspice
793 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1470525 14-Jan-2016 08:55
Send private message

Bung:
Jase2985:
paulchinnz:
Anyone know what error is associated with speed cameras e.g. 1%? 5%?


next to nothing at all

"Accuracy better than 1 Kmh for all modes" for the Stalker DSR

https://www.fyi.org.nz/request/speed_measuring_equipment
down the bottom there are some links to manuals and publications


The Police trot out the local ESR?? certification that the Stalker is accurate to 1km/h. The manufacturer's claim is for " +1, -2 mph stationary, ±2 mph moving +2 / –3 km/h stationary, ±3 km/h moving" The difference may be explained in the specs for Stalker's photo unit where the accuracy of the radar section is quoted as 1km/h in LABORATORY conditions and 3km/h in operating conditions.


Interesting thanks. I was under the impression that for most measurement systems, error is a % rather than absolute value so e.g. 2% would translate into errors of 0.2 km/h and 2 km/h at speeds 10 and 100 km/h, respectively. This makes more sense to me than e.g. absolute 3 km/h for all speeds, which would suggest pretty large error at lower speeds e.g. 30% at 10 km/h. But then I don't know much about speed measurement science.
The other factor is that car speedos aren't necessarily well calibrated to e.g. wheel diameter.

cruxis
477 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1470566 14-Jan-2016 09:43
Send private message

You dont need a Drivers license to own a Car so  dermerits to the owner would have no effect on them, fines are better. You can use a birth certificate to rego a owner of a car the people at the vinz center just glance at them and check if the name you filled in matches and are rushed at busy times to really examine it to check if its real ID.



frankv
5678 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470575 14-Jan-2016 09:58
Send private message

Also interesting is that it's not likely to be absolute. Measurement tends to be statistical... e.g. 95% of readings will be within 3kph of what the actual speed is. There will always be some outliers where some combination of speed, RF noise, reflections, interference, etc causes a spurious reading.

I wonder what percentage (or how many Std Deviations) actually lie within the +/-3kph range.

I also wonder how that varies with distance... at short range with a strong return, I'd expect to get a much more accurate reading than at a distance where the S/N ratio is marginal.


Geektastic
17935 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1470614 14-Jan-2016 10:38
Send private message

gzt: What is in the "speed awareness course" option and how does that work in practice?


You can read about that here

In essence a 4 hour course that costs you the same as the penalty (around $225 NZ equivalent) and means you do not get the penalty points.

You still have to disclose the speeding offence to your insurer and it is still likely to increase your annual premium.





Rikkitic
Awrrr
18608 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1470616 14-Jan-2016 10:44
Send private message

Geektastic: 

Interesting that so many think that the sensible thing to do is to attempt to find ways to outsmart the law instead of just not speeding....
have to take your case to the magistrates.



I think part of the problem is perception. Often, the law is an ass. Using penalties to correct driver behaviour is necessarily a blunt instrument, but it is also often incompetently applied by the authorities. A good example is the many, many instances where a 30 km/h roadworks limit is left in place long after it is needed, and sometimes when it is not needed at all. As a result, drivers stop taking these notices seriously and tragedies can and do happen on the rare occasions when the sign actually means what it says.

In other cases, drivers have their own perception of what is an appropriate speed for the conditions. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are not. But when the authorities do not live up to their responsibility to set reasonable limits and adjust them as necessary, it is hard to blame drivers for failing to respect them. The police act like the law is a one-way street, and in a sense it is, but in a larger sense they and other authorities also have a moral duty to ensure that law enforcement is seen to be fair and reasonable by those who get caught. Yes, a few will always feel hard done by but I am talking about normal people who can tell when they are in the wrong and accept it.

I would like to know what the statistics are for speed crashes within 10 km/h of the limit. I suspect, but don't know, that most serious crashes occur at much higher speeds. In that case, ticketing someone for going 4 or 10 km/h over the limit isn't going to make much difference. Oh, right. Isn't that the situation we have now?
 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


MikeB4
18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted

  #1470617 14-Jan-2016 10:44
Send private message

Geektastic:
gzt: What is in the "speed awareness course" option and how does that work in practice?


You can read about that here

In essence a 4 hour course that costs you the same as the penalty (around $225 NZ equivalent) and means you do not get the penalty points.

You still have to disclose the speeding offence to your insurer and it is still likely to increase your annual premium.


There is a very easy,  non intrusive way to avoid all this that actually saves money as well

1 | ... | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Logitech G522 Gaming Headset Review
Posted 18-Jun-2025 17:00


Māori Artists Launch Design Collection with Cricut ahead of Matariki Day
Posted 15-Jun-2025 11:19


LG Launches Upgraded webOS Hub With Advanced AI
Posted 15-Jun-2025 11:13


One NZ Satellite IoT goes live for customers
Posted 15-Jun-2025 11:10


Bolt Launches in New Zealand
Posted 11-Jun-2025 00:00


Suunto Run Review
Posted 10-Jun-2025 10:44


Freeview Satellite TV Brings HD Viewing to More New Zealanders
Posted 5-Jun-2025 11:50


HP OmniBook Ultra Flip 14-inch Review
Posted 3-Jun-2025 14:40


Flip Phones Are Back as HMD Reimagines an Iconic Style
Posted 30-May-2025 17:06


Hundreds of School Students Receive Laptops Through Spark Partnership With Quadrent's Green Lease
Posted 30-May-2025 16:57


AI Report Reveals Trust Is Key to Unlocking Its Potential in Aotearoa
Posted 30-May-2025 16:55


Galaxy Tab S10 FE Series Brings Intelligent Experiences to the Forefront with Premium, Versatile Design
Posted 30-May-2025 16:14


New OPPO Watch X2 Launches in New Zealand
Posted 29-May-2025 16:08


Synology Premiers a New Lineup of Advanced Data Management Solutions
Posted 29-May-2025 16:04


Dyson Launches Its Slimmest Vaccum Cleaner PencilVac
Posted 29-May-2025 15:50









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.