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  Reply # 1473118 17-Jan-2016 12:56
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MikeB4:
hashbrown:
Jase2985: slow and fast drivers cause accidents.

if everyone who should be driving at 100kph was driving at 100kph im sure there would a lot less stress/impatience on the roads and possibly a lot less accidents.

both sides are at fault at the the end of the day, the speeders an those that choose to drive slower.


Slow driving is not dangerous. At worst it is discourteous if a queue forms and you don't pull over. If you put peoples lives at risk because someone was discourteous towards you, "prick" doesn't begin to cover it.


Going over a rise or around a bend on a 100k road and coming on a vehicle doing around 60k is very dangerous and this
Happened twice over the holiday period.


The law requires you to be able to stop within the length of lane visible, or half that on an unmarked road. If you cannot stop because of an obstruction or slow vehicle around a bend or corner then you are travelling too fast for the conditions.




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  Reply # 1473140 17-Jan-2016 13:33
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scuwp:
MikeB4:
hashbrown:
Jase2985: slow and fast drivers cause accidents.

if everyone who should be driving at 100kph was driving at 100kph im sure there would a lot less stress/impatience on the roads and possibly a lot less accidents.

both sides are at fault at the the end of the day, the speeders an those that choose to drive slower.


Slow driving is not dangerous. At worst it is discourteous if a queue forms and you don't pull over. If you put peoples lives at risk because someone was discourteous towards you, "prick" doesn't begin to cover it.


Going over a rise or around a bend on a 100k road and coming on a vehicle doing around 60k is very dangerous and this
Happened twice over the holiday period.


The law requires you to be able to stop within the length of lane visible, or half that on an unmarked road. If you cannot stop because of an obstruction or slow vehicle around a bend or corner then you are travelling too fast for the conditions.


Correct, but the slow driver is travelling in a manner likely to endanger other road users and dangerous driving.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  Reply # 1473155 17-Jan-2016 14:07
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Appropriate speed for the conditions is required of both drivers in this scenario. The 100kph guy appears to be approaching a somewhat blind corner or blind hump in the road. The other guy ahead may have slowed mostly appropriately.

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  Reply # 1473158 17-Jan-2016 14:10
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freitasm: Guy caught driving 141km/h and then admiting, on video "I don't even know what the speed limit is in New Zealand." and "I didn't even know we were going fast, I was just cruising, just chilling, just chatting away."

Police office saying "It's going to be an expensive dinner," before explaining that he's written the ticket for 139km/h so he can keep his licence.

Why did the office let this "person" keep his license? The driver already admitted he wasn't paying attention.

Unbelievable, from both sides.



This Auckland guy obviously not a youtube star...




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  Reply # 1473162 17-Jan-2016 14:12
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gzt: Appropriate speed for the conditions is required of both drivers in this scenario. The 100kph guy appears to be approaching a somewhat blind corner or blind hump in the road. The other guy ahead may have slowed mostly appropriately.


No, I followed them for a few K's before I managed to pass and their speed ranged from below 50 to 60kmh. Interestingly one would slow dramatically for right hand bends but not so much left hand bends. The rise had no speed
recommendation and the corner I went around at the recommended speed of around 80k




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1473171 17-Jan-2016 14:18
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Regardless of any other factor, you should NEVER drive faster than your stopping distance for the road you can see ahead. That is just asking for trouble. You simply cannot know for certain what might be ahead if you cannot see it.





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


gzt

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  Reply # 1473174 17-Jan-2016 14:23
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MikeB4:
gzt: Appropriate speed for the conditions is required of both drivers in this scenario. The 100kph guy appears to be approaching a somewhat blind corner or blind hump in the road. The other guy ahead may have slowed mostly appropriately.


No, I followed them for a few K's before I managed to pass and their speed ranged from below 50 to 60kmh. Interestingly one would slow dramatically for right hand bends but not so much left hand bends. The rise had no speed
recommendation and the corner I went around at the recommended speed of around 80k

Ok, i was responding to the general scenario rather than any specific example.

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  Reply # 1473179 17-Jan-2016 14:27
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MikeB4:
scuwp:
MikeB4:
hashbrown:
Jase2985: slow and fast drivers cause accidents.

if everyone who should be driving at 100kph was driving at 100kph im sure there would a lot less stress/impatience on the roads and possibly a lot less accidents.

both sides are at fault at the the end of the day, the speeders an those that choose to drive slower.


Slow driving is not dangerous. At worst it is discourteous if a queue forms and you don't pull over. If you put peoples lives at risk because someone was discourteous towards you, "prick" doesn't begin to cover it.


Going over a rise or around a bend on a 100k road and coming on a vehicle doing around 60k is very dangerous and this
Happened twice over the holiday period.


The law requires you to be able to stop within the length of lane visible, or half that on an unmarked road. If you cannot stop because of an obstruction or slow vehicle around a bend or corner then you are travelling too fast for the conditions.


Correct, but the slow driver is travelling in a manner likely to endanger other road users and dangerous driving.


Trust me, if you slammed into the back of the slow driver it would be you having a conversation with the police. Driving slow does not equal dangerous driving, it may be inconsiderate if holding up other traffic, otherwise the 'slow' driver is entirely within their rights to travel what speed they wish under the speed limit. What about a tractor or farm machinery? Horse? Drivers have a responsability to drive at an appropriate speed. Your scenario just highlights that perhaps that was not the case.

Advisory speeds are set to indicate a safe and comfortable speed for a passenger car to negotiate the bend. They normally have nothing to do with visibility or other environmental factors. The driver must still choose an appropriate speed.

Don't get me wrong I can empathize with how annoying this is. But as the law stands the responsibility is on the approaching driver.




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  Reply # 1473189 17-Jan-2016 14:44
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Seems our police do take a dim view of some slow driving given fines have been issued for this.




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  Reply # 1473233 17-Jan-2016 15:54
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Ultimately, roads are giant machines. If everyone is going the same speed, maintaining an acceptable distance, and taking off and stopping at traffic lights appropriately, then the system works perfectly. Everyone gets where they're going on time - most of them even happily. If you are going 95, you are breaking the system. If you are going 105, you are breaking the system. If everyone sticks to the road speeds, everything just works.

 

Barring the idiots.

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  Reply # 1473274 17-Jan-2016 16:31
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paulchinnz: Seems our police do take a dim view of some slow driving given fines have been issued for this.

 

 

 

I think there really is a strange idea of what 'slow' driving means.

 

If you are in a tractor, a heavy lorry, towing a caravan or whatever and cannot do between say 85 and 100 in a 100 zone, you need to move over when it is safe to do so (and as the driver, you are the judge of when that is, not the fool behind you honking and raving). 

 

If as the driver, you make a call that a reasonable speed in the weather conditions or whatever is say 90 in 100 zone then I do  not think you need to make a special effort to stop for that idiot referred to earlier. Of course, you need to let him past when there is a passing lane etc, but you do not need to dive into every farm gate en route to let impatient cretins get to their graves earlier.

 

 

 

Of course, the Road Code is somewhat poorly written. Theoretically it implies that if you are doing 99 in a 100 zone, and there is traffic behind you, you must stop and let it past when safe to do so. Clearly that is never going to happen and a rephrasing along the lines of "significantly slower than the posted limit" or "driving slower than 10% below the limit" or some such would make more sense.

 

Particularly so since the RC also says that you must not drive in such a manner as to annoy "any person". Thus, if you are doing 100 and it annoys me, technically you have broken the RC....! Again, a rephrasing to "any reasonable person" or something would be better.





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  Reply # 1473279 17-Jan-2016 16:53
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Geektastic:
paulchinnz: Seems our police do take a dim view of some slow driving given fines have been issued for this.
  I think there really is a strange idea of what 'slow' driving means. If you are in a tractor, a heavy lorry, towing a caravan or whatever and cannot do between say 85 and 100 in a 100 zone, you need to move over when it is safe to do so (and as the driver, you are the judge of when that is, not the fool behind you honking and raving).  If as the driver, you make a call that a reasonable speed in the weather conditions or whatever is say 90 in 100 zone then I do  not think you need to make a special effort to stop for that idiot referred to earlier. Of course, you need to let him past when there is a passing lane etc, but you do not need to dive into every farm gate en route to let impatient cretins get to their graves earlier.   Of course, the Road Code is somewhat poorly written. Theoretically it implies that if you are doing 99 in a 100 zone, and there is traffic behind you, you must stop and let it past when safe to do so. Clearly that is never going to happen and a rephrasing along the lines of "significantly slower than the posted limit" or "driving slower than 10% below the limit" or some such would make more sense. Particularly so since the RC also says that you must not drive in such a manner as to annoy "any person". Thus, if you are doing 100 and it annoys me, technically you have broken the RC....! Again, a rephrasing to "any reasonable person" or something would be better.

 

All good points. Lots of determinants of whether any given speed is considered slow.

 

PS - the driver behind me honking frantically has a point if I've thoughtlessly not pulled my caravan over despite multiple safe opportunities to do so.

 

PPS - inter-city, I try to let the tailgater pass so that a) risk of them bumping me is minimised and b) they become my scout (e.g. to warn any oncoming traffic to stay on the left).




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  Reply # 1473313 17-Jan-2016 18:35
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Kyanar: Ultimately, roads are giant machines. If everyone is going the same speed, maintaining an acceptable distance, and taking off and stopping at traffic lights appropriately, then the system works perfectly. Everyone gets where they're going on time - most of them even happily. If you are going 95, you are breaking the system. If you are going 105, you are breaking the system. If everyone sticks to the road speeds, everything just works. Barring the idiots.

 

It is not possible to all travel at one speed. Thanks to the Concertina Effect. (Also called the accordion effect)

 


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  Reply # 1473335 17-Jan-2016 19:00
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joker97:
Kyanar: Ultimately, roads are giant machines. If everyone is going the same speed, maintaining an acceptable distance, and taking off and stopping at traffic lights appropriately, then the system works perfectly. Everyone gets where they're going on time - most of them even happily. If you are going 95, you are breaking the system. If you are going 105, you are breaking the system. If everyone sticks to the road speeds, everything just works. Barring the idiots.
It is not possible to all travel at one speed. Thanks to the Concertina Effect. (Also called the accordion effect)

 

That study is actually proof of what I'm saying, far from the opposite you are implying. The concertina effect is caused by people deviating from the system as a whole, not the cause of it. Basically one car goes at 105km/h, and has to brake suddenly to avoid an obstacle (most likely the car going at 95km/h that decided to slow dramatically to 60km/h unnecessarily to take an exit, because people are idiots) that they could have avoided safely if they were following at the correct distance at the correct speed. The car behind them stops. The car behind them. This continues back for hundreds of metres, and continues even after the car at front takes off again, until an hour later people are still stopping, completely unknown as to why, when the obstacle is long gone. Had the car not stopped in the first place, this would not have happened!

 

Just like in stop-start traffic. If no car ever stops, but instead continues onwards at single digit speeds, the concertina effect is actually negated until traffic returns to normal, significantly faster than it otherwise would if cars continued to start and stop (it would also use less petrol, and produce less brake wear. But who am I to say?)

 

 

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  Reply # 1473402 17-Jan-2016 22:44
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joker97:
Kyanar: Ultimately, roads are giant machines. If everyone is going the same speed, maintaining an acceptable distance, and taking off and stopping at traffic lights appropriately, then the system works perfectly. Everyone gets where they're going on time - most of them even happily. If you are going 95, you are breaking the system. If you are going 105, you are breaking the system. If everyone sticks to the road speeds, everything just works. Barring the idiots.
It is not possible to all travel at one speed. Thanks to the Concertina Effect. (Also called the accordion effect)

 

 

 

 

 

Go for a drive on the 8 lane section of the M25 in bad weather if you want to experience this first hand...!





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