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  Reply # 1485656 5-Feb-2016 09:30
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One thing to be aware of, the Honda Accord wagon (Tourer in Honda speak), runs on the more expensive 95 petrol.

 

 

 

The boxy 2003/2004 look can run on 91, but the newer looking Accord Euro Tourer is 95 only.


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  Reply # 1485665 5-Feb-2016 09:44
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martyyn:

 

networkn: 

 

Do NOT buy a Euro car with that budget. Not under ANY circumstances, unless those are free repairs for the next 3 years.

 

 

Oh, do me a favour ! This as as ridiculous a statement as anything I have read from that muppet who writes the D&L guide. I think I'm on my 13th BMW now over 20 years and I own three currently.

 

There is only one car I would consider and it's an e39 BMW 530i touring. Simply all the car you will ever need, you'll pick up a great one for well under $15k. Less than $10k if you know where to look and it leaves plenty of cash to take care of any minor niggles.

 

I just picked up an 03 X5, 3.0i petrol with 180k on the clock. It has a full service history and it is MINT. $9000. Wish I'd bought one years ago.

 

 

 

 

I'd suggest if you have owned 13 in 20 years, you probably haven't owned any long enough for serious problems to have occurred. I know lots of people who own older euro cars and they can be a nightmare to fix and are a huge black hole to pour money into. 

 

Your mileage may have varied, however, evidence is overwhelmingly in your opposition. 

 

The 530i is a hella thirsty (but reasonably nice) car. Having said that, IF it breaks down, it will make his wallet ache.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1485677 5-Feb-2016 09:59
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Handle9:
joker97:

lxsw20:


The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there. 


 


I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.


They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]


Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...



Not in this case. The D4 engine has some pretty well documented issues. It doesn't affect that many models but the Avensis is one of them. If it's been well looked after they are meant to be ok but they aren't a corolla or Camry engine.


Ah i see. The engine could give problems.

What about the rest of the car. Does the transmission fail like my friend's 3 year old Holden Captiva? Does the head gasket leak like an old Subaru? Does the ECU throw random failures like an Audi? Bits fall off like a Ford?

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  Reply # 1485682 5-Feb-2016 10:05
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lxsw20:

joker97:


lxsw20:


The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there. 


 


I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.


They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]


Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...



 


What are you basing your facts off here? The Avensis is not even made in the same country as the Corolla we get in NZ(or wasn't at the time). 


It's not exactly a forum of people taking having a guess or just assuming it's good because Toyota (Cavalier anyone?). At least 2 of the guys that commented have worked for Toyota and one of the others is an auto sparky. 



I base it on my own experience and first hand friends' experience of car trouble.

Volvo/Merc: constant expensive repairs
Audi/BMW: random computer related failures of engine, transmission, dash, windows
Subaru: if need repairs, expansive. If not, ok
Korean rebadged anything: premature transmission failure
Mitsubishi: if need repairs, it keeps needing repairs. If not, ok
Honda/Toyota: no issues
Other brands, no experience/mates with those.
Heard land rover is bad but not first hand.

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  Reply # 1485693 5-Feb-2016 10:17
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networkn:

 

 

 

I'd suggest if you have owned 13 in 20 years, you probably haven't owned any long enough for serious problems to have occurred. I know lots of people who own older euro cars and they can be a nightmare to fix and are a huge black hole to pour money into. 

 

 

Not at all, I've just owned several at the same time. Take the last five years. One I've owned for 5 years, one for 3 years and another for 3 months, that's not 18 months each is it ?

 

They've lasted as such:

 

My first was an e28 520i which I had for two years and spent nothing but servicing it myself. Bought it for GBP750 and sold two years later for 500.

 

Then it was an e32 750il. Yes the 5l V12 everyone is scared of. Replaced one of the AFM's for GBP150 and did the usual oil/fluids services in that time. Bought for GBP2150, sold for GBP1950. Petrol consumption wasn't great ;) but that V12 is a beauty to drive. Heated rear seats that fold down too. Lovely.

 

I then bought an e38 740i to bring back from the UK and had it for 4 years. Replaced the twin exhaust because the cats were dead for GBP700 whilst in the UK and took care of a leaking rocker cover gaskets with a whole load of other preventative work done (namely the PCV) with a total bill of just under $2k.

 

I've had a number of e30's but they were just for playing with. One I sold back to the original owner after a week because he regretted selling it, the others lasted anything up to a year. At the time I was young, my kids were still very young and I had disposable income. I never lost money on them so it was fun until the kids grew up.

 

I had an e30 318is for three years. Brilliant little car, again no problems other than servicing. My garage car now is an e34 535is, 25 years old, 315k kms and still pulls like a train. Owned it 5 years and only had a radiator replaced.

 

My wife has an e39 530i which we've owned for nearly 3 years. Nothing other than basic servicing, although the washer jets need replacing as the plastic is cracking and they leak.

 

And we've just bought the X5 for when we all need to go somewhere (we are a very tall family).

 

networkn:

 

Your mileage may have varied, however, evidence is overwhelmingly in your opposition. 

 

 

I disagree. I've moderated BMW forums both here and overseas for about 15 years. I know of HUNDREDS of people with older European cars many are close personal friends. Take the V12 for instance. Do a search and you will find all sorts of negative comments about them. But I personally know over a dozen people with them who, like me, have never had a problem. So do you believe what you read on the internet or your 12 friends ?

 

networkn:

 

The 530i is a hella thirsty (but reasonably nice) car. Having said that, IF it breaks down, it will make his wallet ache.

 

 

Really ? Ours has averaged 9l/100km in the three years we've owned it. Clearly your definition of thirsty is very different to mine.

 

[e] spelling :(


BTR

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  Reply # 1485718 5-Feb-2016 10:24
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I have a 05 Legacy Sedan with the 3.0 litre and am very happy with it, never had issues with reliability or pairs bills. Have only ever had to do its regular services and replace the tires.

 

 

 

I get an avg 10.8 km/l and found with legacy of this generation that having the eco mode turn on actually does the opposite. 


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  Reply # 1485728 5-Feb-2016 10:33
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Another vote for Holden Commodore or Falcon wagon (more so the Commodore lately) Very reliable, cheap to service and parts are a reasonable price and readily available, tons of room front and back and very comfortable on the open road. 

 

I've been servicing vehicles for 35 years and we don't do a lot more to them than just regular maintenance.

 

 


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  Reply # 1485736 5-Feb-2016 10:39
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joker97:
Handle9:
joker97:

 

lxsw20:

 

 

 

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

 

 

 

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

 

 

 

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

 



Not in this case. The D4 engine has some pretty well documented issues. It doesn't affect that many models but the Avensis is one of them. If it's been well looked after they are meant to be ok but they aren't a corolla or Camry engine.


Ah i see. The engine could give problems.

What about the rest of the car. Does the transmission fail like my friend's 3 year old Holden Captiva? Does the head gasket leak like an old Subaru? Does the ECU throw random failures like an Audi? Bits fall off like a Ford?

 

Apparently wikipedia says the petrol engines are the same engines they use for European Corollas and RAV4s.

 

The D4D is a diesel. I know nothing about diesels, have just stayed away.


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  Reply # 1485741 5-Feb-2016 10:41
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lxsw20:

 

joker97:

 

lxsw20:

 

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there. 

 

 

 

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

 

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

 

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

 

 

 

 

What are you basing your facts off here? The Avensis is not even made in the same country as the Corolla we get in NZ(or wasn't at the time). 

 

It's not exactly a forum of people taking having a guess or just assuming it's good because Toyota (Cavalier anyone?). At least 2 of the guys that commented have worked for Toyota and one of the others is an auto sparky. 

 

 

Wikipedia says it's exclusively made in the UK.

 

Anyway, there are high end Audis made in China, South Africa. And many most top selling Hondas are made in Thailand. 


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  Reply # 1485747 5-Feb-2016 10:46
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clevedon:

 

Another vote for Holden Commodore or Falcon wagon (more so the Commodore lately) Very reliable, cheap to service and parts are a reasonable price and readily available, tons of room front and back and very comfortable on the open road. 

 

I've been servicing vehicles for 35 years and we don't do a lot more to them than just regular maintenance.

 

 

 

 

There aren't any Falcon sold wagons since around the beginning of the century.

 

Commodore wagons aplenty. CAPACIOUS boot. No other experience. Definitely loves to drink petrol that I know. Rented many a sedans of the Ford and Holden type.


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  Reply # 1485748 5-Feb-2016 10:49
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joker97:

 

clevedon:

 

Another vote for Holden Commodore or Falcon wagon (more so the Commodore lately) Very reliable, cheap to service and parts are a reasonable price and readily available, tons of room front and back and very comfortable on the open road. 

 

I've been servicing vehicles for 35 years and we don't do a lot more to them than just regular maintenance.

 

 

 

 

There aren't any Falcon sold wagons since around the beginning of the century.

 

Commodore wagons aplenty. CAPACIOUS boot. No other experience. Definitely loves to drink petrol that I know. Rented many a sedans of the Ford and Holden type.

 

 

 

 

I used to hate Fords and love falcons, but recently my experience has been the opposite. The Fords I have rented have been outstanding. 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1485751 5-Feb-2016 10:52
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joker97:

 

clevedon:

 

Another vote for Holden Commodore or Falcon wagon (more so the Commodore lately) Very reliable, cheap to service and parts are a reasonable price and readily available, tons of room front and back and very comfortable on the open road. 

 

I've been servicing vehicles for 35 years and we don't do a lot more to them than just regular maintenance.

 

 

 

 

There aren't any Falcon sold wagons since around the beginning of the century.

 

Commodore wagons aplenty. CAPACIOUS boot. No other experience. Definitely loves to drink petrol that I know. Rented many a sedans of the Ford and Holden type.

 

 

 

 

That's why I said 'lately' :)

 

Just had a customer did a trip down to Taranaki is his VF Commodore wagon and he said he got down to 7.9lt/100km which is not bad for a large car.

 

 


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  Reply # 1485752 5-Feb-2016 10:55
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If you are after something a little more objective:

 

 

 

 

Heaps more research findings and you can dig deeper on the website.  http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/433ENG

 

 





Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  Reply # 1485754 5-Feb-2016 10:57
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joker97:

 

lxsw20:

 

joker97:

 

lxsw20:

 

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there. 

 

 

 

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

 

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

 

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

 

 

 

 

What are you basing your facts off here? The Avensis is not even made in the same country as the Corolla we get in NZ(or wasn't at the time). 

 

It's not exactly a forum of people taking having a guess or just assuming it's good because Toyota (Cavalier anyone?). At least 2 of the guys that commented have worked for Toyota and one of the others is an auto sparky. 

 

 

Wikipedia says it's exclusively made in the UK.

 

Anyway, there are high end Audis made in China, South Africa. And many most top selling Hondas are made in Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

You believe what you like,I am of the impression they are not of regular Toyota build quality. 




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  Reply # 1485795 5-Feb-2016 11:32
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Thanks for the many replies.  Cars seem to be one of those things that excite vastly different opinions and experiences.  I appreciate all the feedback and insight.

 

One more factor that I've been trying to keep in mind is the overall size of the vehicle.  My wife is not a confident driver and doesn't enjoy driving.  She's reluctant with anything larger than what we've got (which is what she learned to drive in).  That's another reason why I've shied away from the SUV-style vehicles.  There is a tradeoff of course - wagons are inherently bigger than their sedan equivalents, but some vehicles seem to have a TARDIS-like quality which gives them better space inside without being substantially bigger on the outside.  I took a Nissan Qashqai for a drive last year (just for kicks) and was bewildered at how it seemed to ride so high and loom large on the road, but getting in an out of the car didn't feel any bigger than my Altezza.  Weird but true.

 

After reading all the replies thus far (and keep them coming, it's all useful to read), I'm teetering back towards the Subaru.  It sounds like the cost/reliability issue is a variable one.  I'm not one to shirk servicing, which sounds like it might mitigate many problems, though there's always a risk of picking up a lemon.  The one that I drove that I liked most has 130,000 kms on the clock, which is about 50,000 kms higher than my Altezza when I bought it in '06.  but my distance travelled these days is a lot lower.  I average about 5-6,000kms a year, which means I would be owning the car for about 10-12 years before I hit 200,000kms overall.  If the mileage-based maintenance required over that time is minimal, then it's a viable option.  However, if the vehicle starts to fall apart (despite regular servicing) at 150,000kms then it's a different story.  I'm planning on contacting a local Subaru specialist workshop to get an idea of actual servicing and maintenance costs for the model/year/mileage, which may assuage my concerns somewhat (or reinforce my fears).

 

The comments about Avensis are interesting.  It's one of the cars I'm hoping to look at this weekend.  It's hard to picture an unreliable Toyota, but I guess every maker has their lemons.  I had an '84 Celica that seemed to be a frankenstein model and it was ludicrously expensive to maintain and repair (compared to my current Altezza).  The other car I've got in my sights is the Mazda Atenza/6 wagon.  There seem to be a few of those around, which gives me a bit of choice.  After trying those models out it might clear my thinking somewhat.


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