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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1937844 12-Jan-2018 20:29
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Yeah $65k for the enthusiast with $$ ... either that or hoping for change in appetite in the market vs 2y ago when the last new Nissan was sold here - see post #2 of this thread!


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  Reply # 1937848 12-Jan-2018 20:31
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My understanding is the non REX I3 models are a lot cheaper than that REX versions. They definitely are from new, unsure for second-hand. So not much point in spending heaps more for something that you are only going to occasionally use. And having the REX version means higher servicing costs, as the engine needs to be serviced. And you would need to use it a minimum amount, to turn over the petrol. As stale petrol is bad.

Lots of EV owners would still have access to an ICE car that they can use for long trips to areas without much charging stations available. So not having the REX is often not a problem.





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  Reply # 1937915 13-Jan-2018 06:21
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frednz:

 

However, I can understand an EV enthusiast not wanting to have any type of hybrid EV, so the 250km range of the 40kWh new model Nissan Leaf (more if you just drive around town) would appeal to me more than the 30kWh model, but I am surprised at the $65,000 price tag of the only one currently on sale!

 

 

I think $65k is a bit high for 40kWh and most likely the price will be driven down a bit over the next few months.  The reason I'm not happy to change cars for the improvement in range is that I think I'll still not be satisfied with the range and would regret not waiting for the 60kWh version.  One important thing to consider about EV range is that it is common to not get the range quoted for several different reasons.

 

If they tell you the car can get 250km range, mostly you can't drive that far on a charge.  If you charge at a public fast charger then you just won't be charging to 100% because that takes disproportionally longer than charging to 80-85%.  During your drive there may be no charger at the limit of your range, you will need to stop before that point at a location where there is a charger you can use.  Roads like the Taupo - Napier road exist, lots of hills and they will drain your battery much quicker than level road driving will.  There is also rain and headwinds and sometimes you drive faster because you are in a hurry or while overtaking.  There are so many factors that can reduce your range.  If I want a car that can do 250km then I'd buy a 60kWh EV that can do 360kWh in ideal conditions so that charging to 85% and driving over hills I would still be able to travel 250km.


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  Reply # 1937935 13-Jan-2018 09:11
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MarkH67:

 

frednz:

 

However, I can understand an EV enthusiast not wanting to have any type of hybrid EV, so the 250km range of the 40kWh new model Nissan Leaf (more if you just drive around town) would appeal to me more than the 30kWh model, but I am surprised at the $65,000 price tag of the only one currently on sale!

 

 

I think $65k is a bit high for 40kWh and most likely the price will be driven down a bit over the next few months.  The reason I'm not happy to change cars for the improvement in range is that I think I'll still not be satisfied with the range and would regret not waiting for the 60kWh version.  One important thing to consider about EV range is that it is common to not get the range quoted for several different reasons.

 

If they tell you the car can get 250km range, mostly you can't drive that far on a charge.  If you charge at a public fast charger then you just won't be charging to 100% because that takes disproportionally longer than charging to 80-85%.  During your drive there may be no charger at the limit of your range, you will need to stop before that point at a location where there is a charger you can use.  Roads like the Taupo - Napier road exist, lots of hills and they will drain your battery much quicker than level road driving will.  There is also rain and headwinds and sometimes you drive faster because you are in a hurry or while overtaking.  There are so many factors that can reduce your range.  If I want a car that can do 250km then I'd buy a 60kWh EV that can do 360kWh in ideal conditions so that charging to 85% and driving over hills I would still be able to travel 250km.

 

 

In this recent article it discusses the new 60kWh Leaf which apparently will be on sale overseas later this year:

 

According to slides obtained from PushEVs, there’s going to be a new 2019 version of the Nissan Leaf, and it’ll feature significantly updated internals. Alongside a larger 60kWh battery pack, the new Leaf will also pack in a 160kW electric motor and 11 to 22kW onboard charger, too.

 

The new Leaf’s batteries would be capable of thermal management, a technology which is able to extract the most out of cells by precisely regulating their temperature. What’s more, the Leaf will also be capable of a much faster 100kW charging rate.

 

I like the idea of thermal management which I think the BMW i3 already has. I agree there is merit in waiting for the 60kWh version, but I guess there will always be something better to wait for when the 60kWh version arrives!

 

Overall, to get started, it could be a good idea to just buy the 30kWh Leaf and then go direct to the 60kWh version in 12 months time.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1938086 13-Jan-2018 13:25
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Looks like a far more feasible vehicle for NZ terrain.

Gotta laugh at the 2019 model being released in 2018 though 😂

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  Reply # 1938087 13-Jan-2018 13:26
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PhantomNVD: Looks like a far more feasible vehicle for NZ terrain.

Gotta laugh at the 2019 model being released in 2018 though 😂

 

All cars are released that way, 2018 models were released September 2017.

 

 


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  Reply # 1938090 13-Jan-2018 13:30
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MarkH67:

 

frednz:

 

However, I can understand an EV enthusiast not wanting to have any type of hybrid EV, so the 250km range of the 40kWh new model Nissan Leaf (more if you just drive around town) would appeal to me more than the 30kWh model, but I am surprised at the $65,000 price tag of the only one currently on sale!

 

 

If they tell you the car can get 250km range, mostly you can't drive that far on a charge.  If you charge at a public fast charger then you just won't be charging to 100% because that takes disproportionally longer than charging to 80-85%.  During your drive there may be no charger at the limit of your range, you will need to stop before that point at a location where there is a charger you can use.  Roads like the Taupo - Napier road exist, lots of hills and they will drain your battery much quicker than level road driving will.  There is also rain and headwinds and sometimes you drive faster because you are in a hurry or while overtaking.  There are so many factors that can reduce your range.  If I want a car that can do 250km then I'd buy a 60kWh EV that can do 360kWh in ideal conditions so that charging to 85% and driving over hills I would still be able to travel 250km.

 

 

Hills don't change that too much since you regenerate energy on the way down at about 85% efficiency.

 

The EPA (ie. realistic) rating on the 60kw LEAF will be over 225 miles, or 360km. Nissan will claim over 400km (in ideal conditions).  

 

For me living in Wellington, 360km range is overkill.  I just can't see needing it.  

 

 


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  Reply # 1938115 13-Jan-2018 14:06
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happyfunball:

 

For me living in Wellington, 360km range is overkill.  I just can't see needing it.  

 

 

I live in Morrinsville, there isn't much here so I often go elsewhere.

 

I will be heading to Invercargill in about 2.5 weeks, but I won't be taking the Leaf. The total distance I'll cover will end up being around 2,200kms.

 

I'm heading up to Auckland (not in the city, near Auckland might be more accurate) on the 16th Feb, I might take the Leaf for that trip, can charge at Te Kauwhata and Pukekohe, it's not all that far and I will not be in a huge rush. I'm staying at a camping ground and have booked a powered tent site so I can charge the Leaf overnight, if I had 60kWh then I'd just drive there non-stop and charge up while sleeping.

 

Later in the Year I'm going to Havelock North and will be staying in Hastings for a couple of nights.  With a 60kWh car that would be an easy trip, probably with a stop in Taupo for food & a top-up charge and then on to the destination with absolutely no range anxiety at all.  If there was a problem with the charger in Taupo, I'd have no problem making the next charger on the route.

 

My work commute is no problem on my 24kWh Leaf, but with a 60kWh Leaf I could charge to 80%, drive to work & back and get home with still over 50% charge, which would be enough to head off to Hamilton to the movies or whatever.  Currently, I MUST charge when I get home or I would have dreadful range anxiety travelling to work the next day.  I do have around 35% when I get home now, but that isn't a lot of leeway for going out again.  If I got home from work and the boss called me, asking me to go back to work due to some urgent problem - I would have a big problem.  This hasn't happened yet, but if it did my 24kWh battery would be a huge pain.  Currently, my 24kWh Leaf is fine for my work commute but has limitation for other uses and on longer trips has significant drawbacks, my next car will be MUCH easier to live with.

 

360km range is nice, but 80% charge at a fast charge would only give you 360 x 0.8 = 288km, which is still fine.  Hills may not decrease the range by all that much, but even 10% loss of range can reduce 288km to 260km.  Rain or headwind could knock that back to 240km and then you have the actual range that matches the claimed range of the 40kWh Leaf.  Also, consider that three years after buying the car you would have less range due to battery degradation, this is less of a problem when you start with 360km range and can make do on less than that.


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  Reply # 1938207 13-Jan-2018 17:48
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MarkH67:... head off to Hamilton to the movies or whatever.  ...

 

It's somewhat unfortunate that access to fossil fuels have gotten us used to the luxury of cheap mobility such that we can zip all over the country (and world) with little regard to cost.

 

Eventually we will learn that the long-term sequestration of fossil fuels is exactly what allowed us to thrive as a species and ignoring that will be our downfall.


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  Reply # 1938236 13-Jan-2018 18:45
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KiwiME:

 

It's somewhat unfortunate that access to fossil fuels have gotten us used to the luxury of cheap mobility such that we can zip all over the country (and world) with little regard to cost.

 

 

Are you suggesting that people in small towns shouldn't feel free to travel 30km to see a movie?

 

Are you suggesting that no one should feel free to travel to any gathering of like-minded people?

 

Should everyone feel obliged to spend their entire lives in the place they were born and never see the rest of the country they live in?

 

Personally, I feel that the cheap mobility is one of the good things we have gotten from the modern world.  The climate change problem is one of the very bad things.  I would like to see us keep the cheap mobility and overcome the pollution - electric cars and clean electricity generation seem like a great solution for that.


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  Reply # 1938317 13-Jan-2018 19:59
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MarkH67:

happyfunball:


For me living in Wellington, 360km range is overkill.  I just can't see needing it.  



I live in Morrinsville, there isn't much here so I often go elsewhere.


.



I think the Leaf was designed for urban families, or a second car. It’s impressive that you are making it work for you.

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  Reply # 1938369 13-Jan-2018 20:28
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Aredwood: My understanding is the non REX I3 models are a lot cheaper than that REX versions. They definitely are from new, unsure for second-hand. So not much point in spending heaps more for something that you are only going to occasionally use. And having the REX version means higher servicing costs, as the engine needs to be serviced. And you would need to use it a minimum amount, to turn over the petrol. As stale petrol is bad.

Lots of EV owners would still have access to an ICE car that they can use for long trips to areas without much charging stations available. So not having the REX is often not a problem.

 

At present, there are 9 BMW i3 Gen 2 (33kWh 94Ah battery) vehicles for sale on Trade Me Motors. Eight of these have range extenders and only one is pure electric.

 

The pure electric i3 is on sale for $59,990 (14389 km) and the 8 REX models vary in price from $59,995 (8000km) upwards. So, in the second-hand i3 market you probably don’t need to pay a lot more for a REX model, that is, if you do your research.

 

If I owned a REX model, I would use the range extender once every few days so this would avoid the “stale petrol” problem. In any event, the i3 petrol tank only has a capacity of 9 litres.

 

Sure, the small i3 motor cycle engine needs servicing, but the cost of this would be more than offset by the use and peace of mind you get from having it. The REX model has been very popular with i3 buyers and has been a strong reason behind the overall success of the i3.

 

I would prefer to have a REX model as I would then feel more confident to attempt longer trips in an EV and I would therefore get a lot more use out of my i3 than I would from my ICE vehicle.

 

It's likely that BMW will stop producing a REX model when the pure electric range of future new models reaches the 300km mark.

 

Incidentally, the i3 also has a battery cooling system and this is a plus when compared with the LEAF, which doesn't yet have this feature.




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  Reply # 1938466 14-Jan-2018 09:43
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MarkH67:

 

frednz:

 

If we assume you have a spare $65,000 to spend on an electric vehicle, which would you buy, a 2017 40kWh new model Nissan Leaf or a BMW i3 94ah REx Range Extender 2017 ?

 

 

Personally: No I wouldn't. 

 

If I had $65k to spend on an electric vehicle then I would put it in the bank in an interest-bearing account and wait a year.  Then I'd be looking at what to buy out of the new cars using the LG Chem 60kWh batteries - Leaf, Ioniq, eGolf, whatever.

 

I wouldn't drop that sort of cash on a 40kWh car and I'm not buying an EV that has a petrol engine in it.  The only reason to have a range extender is that you have bought the wrong car and it doesn't have enough range, that's why I'd wait a year and buy a 60kWh car.

 



I'd put $48K into a finance plan on a Tesla Model S 75D before January 31st and get free supercharging for the life of the vehicle....and pay 'low' ($1429) monthly repayments over 5 years or until I sold the car.   The other $20k would go into investments.  





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1938888 15-Jan-2018 09:42
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I've just finished the last 50 pages of this thread over the last couple of week, thanks to for all those that contributed to the knowledge base.

 

Just sold my wife's 2005 mazda atenza wagon that was starting to get expensive on servicing.

 

My reasons for getting the leaf are knowing that it will be safe and reliable for my wife who carts our 2 littles ones around a lot and no more downtime/expense from mechanical failures. Low running costs are a bonus. My work car is a modern Euro and will be used for longer family trips. I have no opinion about C02 emissions since I can have a much bigger impact there in what I do for work.

 

Is there still sense in buying a 80% SOH Gen 1 in good condition for around $11.5k or is it worth an extra 4-5k for a Gen 2 for similar SOH? I know the newer rig is good for about an extra 20km for a full charge with it's combined technology improvements but other than that think it probably makes more sense putting the extra money aside for an upgrade in 3-4 years time since the technology is advancing so quickly for now.

 

Also can someone please recommend where in Auckland to 

 

-update the dash to English

 

-Fit a tow bar for a bike rack only?

 

 

 

Ta muchly!

 

PS Robbie @ Autolink mentioned someone has just been given the go-ahead to bring a container of batteries into the country.


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  Reply # 1938918 15-Jan-2018 10:14
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Pinging @ruki for the dash upgrade.

Personally, as range is not a significant factor for your use, I’d say save the money and go for the Gen1 (as I did) and use the time to learn more about EV driving. I’d also really encourage you to trial a ‘longer’ distance trip like Whangarei or Taupo in your leaf sometime and see how much difference the Quick charge every 100km or so is. My young family (2 boys @6&9) actually found we pretty much stop every hour or so for roughly 10-20 mins anyway for toilet and ‘play’ breaks.

The one time we wished we could ‘just drive on’ was a late leaving time and some tired/sleeping kids on the way home from Whangarei. Every other time the $14 return cost definitely made the obligatory stops worthwhile for us.

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