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226 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1958120 14-Feb-2018 16:13
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old3eyes:

 

Yes EV owners  are freeloading.  Trolley Buses were all electric and had to pay the same  weight RUC as a diesel bus so it's time for EV owners to pay RUC as well. 

 

 

These RUC myths need to be crushed.

 

Road damage goes up exponentially with the weight of the vehicle.  One heavy truck driving on a road does more damage than a single car does in months of driving on the same road.

 

The RUC on cars could be seen as a subsidy to enable trucking, and its not without purpose, trucks and trucking are integral to our economy.  The RUC was always a fuzzy cash grab, and was never a fair way of charging for the road.

 

In actuality the RUC and income tax and GST, and cigarette tax and all the other taxes are just a way of filling the coffers to pay for the goodies.  We have a new expense now, carbon emissions, and we need to share the cost of bringing it down.  Bickering over a single tiny tax is silly. We need to set goals and then enact policy to get there.

 

The government just gave a tiny rebate to EV owners on RUC because it was incredibly easy to do and gave them good 'optics'.  In reality it does next to nothing and costs next to nothing.

 

 

 

 


462 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1960201 19-Feb-2018 10:23
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I'll post this here and the Nissan Leaf forum as well.

 

News last week from Nissan NZ, that due to high global demand, the next gen Nissan Leaf won't officially be sold in NZ until at least the end of the first quarter of 2019.

 

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/kiwi-arrival-for-nissan-leaf-more-than-12-months-away?A=SearchResult&SearchID=2872433&ObjectID=7299767&ObjectType=35

 

 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1960215 19-Feb-2018 10:55
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On an only tangentially related note, I've had my Leaf for only about a month, and last week at some stage, some ... person... put a ding in it on the left front wheel arch and of course left without leaving their details. First time in years I've had a nice car as opposed to an old one where I might not even notice a 20c coin sized dent it, and some random bastard just bangs it and walks off. I cannot express how annoyed I am without using words that won't get past the decency filter.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1960269 19-Feb-2018 11:51
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

I'll post this here and the Nissan Leaf forum as well.

 

News last week from Nissan NZ, that due to high global demand, the next gen Nissan Leaf won't officially be sold in NZ until at least the end of the first quarter of 2019.

 

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/kiwi-arrival-for-nissan-leaf-more-than-12-months-away?A=SearchResult&SearchID=2872433&ObjectID=7299767&ObjectType=35

 

 

Might be nice to see them start out offering a 60KwH,

 

Global leaf production can scale reasonably quickly as they have 3 plants, (Although Symrna is pretty much US only) Oppama, Japan  and Sunderland,UK can produce both LHD and RHD variants, - but the announcement of NZ, Aust, Singapore, Malaysia, HK, Thailand as markets ( and possibly Indonesia)  are all RHD markets, so it sounds like they are wanting to expand RHD leaf production from Japan into these markets..




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  Reply # 1960434 19-Feb-2018 15:54
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SaltyNZ:

 

On an only tangentially related note, I've had my Leaf for only about a month, and last week at some stage, some ... person... put a ding in it on the left front wheel arch and of course left without leaving their details. First time in years I've had a nice car as opposed to an old one where I might not even notice a 20c coin sized dent it, and some random bastard just bangs it and walks off. I cannot express how annoyed I am without using words that won't get past the decency filter.

 



I know how you feel. A woman drove into me at Bayfair and then just drove off. It's on private property and no one was injured, so the police weren't interested. 

I put in a claim with AA, paid the excess, and got my mint condition car back. They replaced the whole rear bumper. It took about 4 days. 

I wasn't going to let a slide as the car would look like crap in no time if you don't deal with these things right away. 

I generally park far away from everyone reckoning walking is less hassle than fixing prangs. But in this case the fast charger is where it is....and the person who hit me was an idiot. I try not to be wary of Asian female drivers, but they keep giving me cause to be wary. 








____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1960435 19-Feb-2018 16:06
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Linuxluver:

 


I know how you feel. A woman drove into me at Bayfair and then just drove off. It's on private property and no one was injured, so the police weren't interested. 

 

The EV chargers at Bayfair are in a horrible position, 3 of the 4 spots are exposed to turning passing traffic, its just like an invitation to get whacked  


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Wannabe Geek
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  Reply # 1961243 20-Feb-2018 22:11
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Hi Everyone,

 

Just bought a 2013 Gen 2 X-model Leaf from GVI. 7000 km, and 88% SOH. 9 QC's & 351 L1/L2's

 

This will be mostly used to replace my wife's ICE Demio for a 30 km round-trip commute weekdays. The info I have gleaned from this thread thus far has been invaluable - once we get the vehicle next week, I'll join FlipTheFleet & contribute data there, too. I have a copy of LeafSpy Pro, a Konnwei OBD dongle, and a tame electrician who is going to install a charging point in the garage next week. Life is good .. :-)

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Greg


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1961392 21-Feb-2018 10:24
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happyfunball:

 

old3eyes:

 

Yes EV owners  are freeloading.  Trolley Buses were all electric and had to pay the same  weight RUC as a diesel bus so it's time for EV owners to pay RUC as well. 

 

 

These RUC myths need to be crushed.

 

Road damage goes up exponentially with the weight of the vehicle.  One heavy truck driving on a road does more damage than a single car does in months of driving on the same road.

 

The RUC on cars could be seen as a subsidy to enable trucking, and its not without purpose, trucks and trucking are integral to our economy.  The RUC was always a fuzzy cash grab, and was never a fair way of charging for the road.

 

In actuality the RUC and income tax and GST, and cigarette tax and all the other taxes are just a way of filling the coffers to pay for the goodies.  We have a new expense now, carbon emissions, and we need to share the cost of bringing it down.  Bickering over a single tiny tax is silly. We need to set goals and then enact policy to get there.

 

The government just gave a tiny rebate to EV owners on RUC because it was incredibly easy to do and gave them good 'optics'.  In reality it does next to nothing and costs next to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

While it's generally accepted as true (the "fourth power" rule - that doubling the axle weight causes 16 times the damage to road surfaces) there are serious flaws in your argument.

 

Cost of surfacing/resurfacing roads damaged by (ie heavy) traffic is only one part of the overall cost of providing a road network, the road surface and that and all the rest of the roading infrastructure will require maintenance anyway regardless of the makeup of traffic volume.  The temporary dispensation given to EV users isn't really "tiny", it amounts to about $1000 per year saving per average vehicle compared to road tax collected via RUC or petrol excises.

 

 

 

 


618 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 217


  Reply # 1961402 21-Feb-2018 10:35
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The current blockade on imported vehicles won't be doing the NZ Leaf supplies any good.  





Amanon

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Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 163


  Reply # 1961407 21-Feb-2018 10:44
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Dulouz:

 

The current blockade on imported vehicles won't be doing the NZ Leaf supplies any good.  

 

 

Blockade??


618 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1961413 21-Feb-2018 10:51
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@KrazyKid The Stink bug issue which has seen several ships blocked from NZ Ports.





Amanon

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  Reply # 1961418 21-Feb-2018 10:57
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Fred99:

 

The temporary dispensation given to EV users isn't really "tiny", it amounts to about $1000 per year saving per average vehicle compared to road tax collected via RUC or petrol excises.

 

 

 

 

Which means that based on current registrations, there will be a 'shortfall' of approximately $6,603,000 this year, which is maybe an extra $2 each in taxes that has to be made up. In other words, yes, it is tiny. And that doesn't take into account the potential tax savings to be made based on reduced CO2 emissions, which of course is the whole point of attempting to encourage EVs in the first place.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


677 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 426


  Reply # 1961424 21-Feb-2018 11:10
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happyfunball:

 

The RUC on cars could be seen as a subsidy to enable trucking, and its not without purpose, trucks and trucking are integral to our economy.  The RUC was always a fuzzy cash grab, and was never a fair way of charging for the road.

 

In actuality the RUC and income tax and GST, and cigarette tax and all the other taxes are just a way of filling the coffers to pay for the goodies.  We have a new expense now, carbon emissions, and we need to share the cost of bringing it down.  Bickering over a single tiny tax is silly. We need to set goals and then enact policy to get there.

 

 

Sorry, not directly Leaf related I know, however this is an Economics 101 fail and affects the viability of Leaf's and EV in the future.

 

'Bickering' over a tax that encourages waste and inefficiency and encourages CO2 production (if you're concerned about that) is worth while.

 

This argument that subsiding trucks is a good or necessary thing, is a complete fallacy. This and excise taxes are solely to bias human/corporate behaviour (don't smoke, don't drink etc). Subsidies to trucking via RUC/fuel tax on cars encourage (potentially un-necessary) trucking, and does not to support the wider economy in any way shape or form, as it supresses one branch of the economy while encouraging another.

 

I'm ultimately paying the true cost of delivering my groceries to the supermarket, weather I'm paying it all at the till or a portion via my RUC/fuel tax. By not charging the actual cost of delivering my groceries at the till it means that local production is discouraged and an incentive made to truck more stuff, more distance, generating more pollution and necessitating more/bigger roads and more/bigger taxes.


136 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  Reply # 1961458 21-Feb-2018 12:03
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Although only partially related to the LEAF with RUC charges I am undecided if after 2021 the government introduce RUCs on light electric or not but not at the current rate for Diesel cars. It would be a much fairer system of having it weight based @ 1¢ per tonne / Km which would put the current LEAFS around $150 / 10,000KM instead of the $600 Diesels pay now. 

 

 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1961472 21-Feb-2018 12:32
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SaltyNZ:

 

Fred99:

 

The temporary dispensation given to EV users isn't really "tiny", it amounts to about $1000 per year saving per average vehicle compared to road tax collected via RUC or petrol excises.

 

 

 

 

Which means that based on current registrations, there will be a 'shortfall' of approximately $6,603,000 this year, which is maybe an extra $2 each in taxes that has to be made up. In other words, yes, it is tiny. And that doesn't take into account the potential tax savings to be made based on reduced CO2 emissions, which of course is the whole point of attempting to encourage EVs in the first place.

 

 

That's a very fallacious way of deceiving yourself and others.

 

Based on "current registrations" the beneficial environmental impact of EVs is also tiny.  Yes it is.


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