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272 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1988490 5-Apr-2018 07:39
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SaltyNZ:

 

GV27:

 

A refurb programme here would really be quite handy. 

 

 

Yes. Yes it would. It's almost like there are people out there waving cash at Nissan, who refuse to accept it because reasons.

 

 

 

Potential business opportunity for someone with a decent handle on Google Translate and Alibaba hookups? 


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  Reply # 1988494 5-Apr-2018 07:53
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GV27:

 

Potential business opportunity for someone with a decent handle on Google Translate and Alibaba hookups? 

 

 

 

 

Buying high energy Lithium battery cells from random factories in China and packing 300kg of them into cars with no thermal management... What could possibly go wrong!?





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1988546 5-Apr-2018 08:52
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SaltyNZ:

 

GV27:

 

Potential business opportunity for someone with a decent handle on Google Translate and Alibaba hookups? 

 

 

Buying high energy Lithium battery cells from random factories in China and packing 300kg of them into cars with no thermal management... What could possibly go wrong!?

 

 

Risk vs reward!


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1988552 5-Apr-2018 09:05
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GV27:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

GV27:

 

Potential business opportunity for someone with a decent handle on Google Translate and Alibaba hookups? 

 

 

Buying high energy Lithium battery cells from random factories in China and packing 300kg of them into cars with no thermal management... What could possibly go wrong!?

 

 

Risk vs reward!

 

 

No EVs should be produced without a proper thermal management system. And dealers don't often tell buyers that Nissan Leaf batteries don't have thermal management.

 

Perhaps Nissan thought that nobody would be silly enough to want to drive 1000kms in a day and fast charge several times on a hot day!

 

So people who try to use a Leaf for extended trips are the ones taking the risk because it's obvious that Leafs were primarily designed for driving around town and charging up overnight at home.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1988554 5-Apr-2018 09:13
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Nissan just started a battery refurb program in Japan.  Its a big operation though, not likely to be replicated here with the small number of Leafs out there.  93K Leafs in Japan before they opened the factory.

 

I don't know whats involved with the refurb though, maybe it can be done here without Nissan helping?  The parts are all proprietary unlike Teslas which use standard size cells so it won't be easy.


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  Reply # 1988562 5-Apr-2018 09:26
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frednz:

 

So people who try to use a Leaf for extended trips are the ones taking the risk because it's obvious that Leafs were primarily designed for driving around town and charging up overnight at home.

 

 

 

 

Well, to a certain extent, caveat emptor. A car with a stated range of less than 200km (which means an actual range of even less than that) is obviously not intended to be used to drive 1000km a day on a regular basis. Even if you ignore the issues multiple fast charges cause the car, you're still going to spend half the day sitting around waiting for those fast charges to complete. If driving 1000km a day every day is important to you, then EVs are not for you, at least not at the moment.

 

I wouldn't consider an EV with a nominal range of less than 500km (i.e. a realistic range of 400km) to be the kind of car I would decide to go on a grand tour of New Zealand in. The Leaf is exactly what you suggest: primarily for driving around town and slow charging overnight at home, with occasional longer trip requiring a fast charge in the middle.





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  Reply # 1988565 5-Apr-2018 09:32
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happyfunball:

 

Nissan just started a battery refurb program in Japan.  Its a big operation though, not likely to be replicated here with the small number of Leafs out there.  93K Leafs in Japan before they opened the factory.

 

I don't know whats involved with the refurb though, maybe it can be done here without Nissan helping?  The parts are all proprietary unlike Teslas which use standard size cells so it won't be easy.

 

 

 

 

But again, this is still a case of Nissan leaving money on the table just because. There's no reason Nissan NZ can't import refurbed packs from Japan and make a profit on it on the way through. They don't even need to install them - there are plenty of places that will undertake that job. They just need to not block people from buying them.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1988645 5-Apr-2018 10:16
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SaltyNZ:

 

happyfunball:

 

Nissan just started a battery refurb program in Japan.  Its a big operation though, not likely to be replicated here with the small number of Leafs out there.  93K Leafs in Japan before they opened the factory.

 

I don't know whats involved with the refurb though, maybe it can be done here without Nissan helping?  The parts are all proprietary unlike Teslas which use standard size cells so it won't be easy.

 

 

 

 

But again, this is still a case of Nissan leaving money on the table just because. There's no reason Nissan NZ can't import refurbed packs from Japan and make a profit on it on the way through. They don't even need to install them - there are plenty of places that will undertake that job. They just need to not block people from buying them.

 

 

Agreed. My main concern is buying a Nissan Leaf and ending up with no way of disposing it when the battery goes clunk and having no way of fixing it so it works properly.




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  Reply # 1989211 6-Apr-2018 08:43
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SaltyNZ:

 

Buying high energy Lithium battery cells from random factories in China and packing 300kg of them into cars with no thermal management... What could possibly go wrong!?

 



I've heard that the main issue with transporting them. No airplane will carry them. Too heavy anyway to be economic. Few ships will carry them because of the risk of fire. 

There are arrangements being made to get battery packs, I've heard, but the shipping of them is the main stumbling block.  





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  Reply # 1989214 6-Apr-2018 08:45
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frednz:

 

No EVs should be produced without a proper thermal management system. And dealers don't often tell buyers that Nissan Leaf batteries don't have thermal management.

 

Perhaps Nissan thought that nobody would be silly enough to want to drive 1000kms in a day and fast charge several times on a hot day!

 

So people who try to use a Leaf for extended trips are the ones taking the risk because it's obvious that Leafs were primarily designed for driving around town and charging up overnight at home.

 



That could also be a back-handed way of acknowledging Nissan doesn't want its EVs competing with it's personal (non-business) petrol / diesel vehicles. They *designed* them so they were crippled on range even if the chargers were there to keep them rolling.  

They recently sold off their battery business.....and are sourcing future batteries from LG Chem. Hopefully that signals a change of approach......beyond seeking to offload potential warranty costs of previous LEAFs.  





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  Reply # 1989225 6-Apr-2018 08:58
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I just want to make it clear that I really love my LEAF.....though I'm clear-eyed about its limitations and the compromises it requires for longer (400km+) trips.  For daily use, there is no compromise and it's beyond awesome. 

The day I bought my 30kWh LEAF for $45,000 the only cars that came close were the BMW i3 for twice the price and a Tesla could only be imported used from the UK or bought new via Australia and shipped over at my cost. They weren't available for order in NZ until November '16. 

Would I buy it again? 

Absolutely. Zero carbon emissions is something I won't compromise on. 

My LEAF has been awesome. Smooth, quiet, cheap to run.....and just fun. Like a rolling video game......solving the puzzle of how to make it do what I want it to do....and being rewarded when I get it right (which isn't that hard - you just have to think a bit). I'm now also a safer driver and a more relaxed driver. I enjoy that a lot more than I used to. 

But I always understood I was an early adopter in what would hopefully be a rapidly evolving electric car scene and the value of the vehicle would likely plummet over the next 2-3 years.  

I have had a reservation in for a Tesla Model 3 since August '16....almost the same day I bought my LEAF. I fully intend to configure my Model 3 for order when the chance arises. That looks like a year from now. I'll be ready. 

But until then......wow.....my LEAF is amazing. I may yet get a 64kWh 2019 LEAF when they are available. My other half needs to drive something...and she loves our LEAF. 

 





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1989247 6-Apr-2018 09:41
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Great comments Steve I agree fully Love My Leaf despite battery concerns Worth every dollar in more ways than one.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1989248 6-Apr-2018 09:42
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Linuxluver:

 

I've heard that the main issue with transporting them. No airplane will carry them. Too heavy anyway to be economic. Few ships will carry them because of the risk of fire. 

There are arrangements being made to get battery packs, I've heard, but the shipping of them is the main stumbling block.  

 

 

Thats been taken care of, shipping is no longer a problem.

 

http://evtalk.co.nz/ev-battery-import-breakthrough/

 

 The problem is getting them in Japan, which Nissan will not release for export.  Only Japanese dealers can buy the batteries.  My understanding is Nissan NZ also does not want the batteries shipped here as it supports the import market they are not a part of, but that could be changing.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1989262 6-Apr-2018 10:00
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happyfunball:

 

Nissan just started a battery refurb program in Japan.  Its a big operation though, not likely to be replicated here with the small number of Leafs out there.  93K Leafs in Japan before they opened the factory.

 

I don't know whats involved with the refurb though, maybe it can be done here without Nissan helping?  The parts are all proprietary unlike Teslas which use standard size cells so it won't be easy.

 

 

There is no re-invention of the wheel .... There are only two working processes proved to be successful:

 

1) Go through the bulk (i.e. a lot, not just one or 3 packs) of modules, load tests them, rank them, discard failed which do not meet threshold and compile working pack from similarly performing modules. That is the process I suggest to use and is in use by those who deployed my Complex in their workshop

 

2) Use the core (that to include wiring, relays, connectors, etc) and install brand new genuine modules from the manufacturer. That is the process used by whoever is authorized to work with and have access to new genuine modules.

 

------ alternative process below prone to quick failures ----- used by some, unfortunately ----- :

 

a) Change one failed module

 

b) Up-charge weak module, re-balance unbalanced pack

 

c) Put brand new, made in China non-genuine modules

 

 

 

 





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


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  Reply # 1989363 6-Apr-2018 11:18
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I too am early adopter late 2016. We needed a second car for round town and had friends in chch who had bought one of the ex Australian leafs and loved it.

 

Yes I'm an early adopter which has financial issues but I'm OK with that.

 

Just drove my leaf 24kwh from Dunedin to Wanaka for airshow and it was a lovely quiet drive. Took an hour or so longer with charged but I arrived much more refreshed that it I had driven the ice.

 

Driving my leaf with its smooth acceleration is just a nice experience that I enjoy.

 

Next car hopefully an ev. Maybe the 60kw leaf as I find the Zoe looks too small and golf similarly. 

 

Not a fan on the Tesla dashboard which rules out the s x and 3.

 

Will be interesting to see the ipace in the real world.


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