Nissan LEAF - General

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1400 posts

Uber Geek

#2005347 30-Apr-2018 17:38

happyfunball:

........

... Nissan didn't consider battery degradation to be a problem, just cell failure. It seems this 30kwh issue and the earlier hot climate issues on Gen1 cars really took them by surprise.

Nissan still does not consider drop of SOH to be an issue. Nissan NZ recently issued an official report on a particular Leaf with allegedly dropped SOH and have not found that particular car battery to have any issues.

Would be interesting to know what is Nissan NZ' criteria/threshold to consider any claims for this combination: 24/30kWh & ODO & Manufacture Date & SOH.

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jarledb

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#2005416 30-Apr-2018 19:48

Nissan is starting to sell refurbished batteries.

Nissan Introduces $2,850 Refabricated Batteries For Older LEAF

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wellygary

8203 posts

Uber Geek

#2005431 30-Apr-2018 20:34

jarledb: Nissan is starting to sell refurbished batteries in Japan

Nissan Introduces $2,850 Refabricated Batteries For Older LEAF

Let me fix that for you,

I think the chances of them offering that here anytime soon are fairly remote, There are lots of larger markets that nissan officially sell leafs in to service first....

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2005472 30-Apr-2018 21:21

RUKI:

happyfunball:

........

... Nissan didn't consider battery degradation to be a problem, just cell failure. It seems this 30kwh issue and the earlier hot climate issues on Gen1 cars really took them by surprise.

Nissan still does not consider drop of SOH to be an issue. Nissan NZ recently issued an official report on a particular Leaf with allegedly dropped SOH and have not found that particular car battery to have any issues.

Would be interesting to know what is Nissan NZ' criteria/threshold to consider any claims for this combination: 24/30kWh & ODO & Manufacture Date & SOH.

Nissan NZ doesn't measure degradation or capacity, I had a test done on my car a few weeks ago and can verify that they didn't measure capacity or even know how to check for degradation. The tech admitted to me they didn't measure capacity at all, no measure of energy in or out of the battery. They didn't know about the LSSOH value or how to find it (the legendary SOH that various ODB2 readers expose, such as LeafSpy).

All they look for is failed cells. Degradation is covered in the Nissan warranty in other markets, so its not covered in their consult tool clearly. Its just not on their radar and it seems like they are not familiar with the technology.

I'm sure that will change with time, but honestly you can have any level of degradation and their consult tools will say the battery is just fine as long as there isn't a failed cell.

tripper1000

1602 posts

Uber Geek

#2005599 1-May-2018 08:09

wellygary:

jarledb: Nissan is starting to sell refurbished batteries in Japan

Nissan Introduces $2,850 Refabricated Batteries For Older LEAF

Let me fix that for you,

I think the chances of them offering that here anytime soon are fairly remote, There are lots of larger markets that nissan officially sell leafs in to service first....

Of course, it's a factory for Japan not the world, but it is the first logical step in a world wide program, so it is encouraging to see.

Next question, what effect will this have on the New Zealand Jap-import Leaf market? Now the batteries in Japan can easily be restored, will it improve the second hand value of Leafs in Japan and thereby raise the cost to bring them into NZ? Or will it ultimately mean there are more 11 and 12 bar leafs in the Japanese auctions for importer to bring into NZ?

RUKI

1400 posts

Uber Geek

#2006386 2-May-2018 09:04

happyfunball:

....

Nissan NZ doesn't measure degradation or capacity, I had a test done on my car a few weeks ago and can verify that they didn't measure capacity or even know how to check for degradation. The tech admitted to me they didn't measure capacity at all, no measure of energy in or out of the battery. They didn't know about the LSSOH value or how to find it (the legendary SOH that various ODB2 readers expose, such as LeafSpy).

All they look for is failed cells. .....

Iinexperienced techs work everywhere.

I found where the LBSOH was hiding in Consult3+ That I think is the measure of battery degradation. Work Support Section in Consult 3+ has feature: "clear battery degradation" - that is what I suppose is happening in Japan before selling cars here. Nissan Tech from overseas said one full charge discharge is enough for SOH to come back. But they have already wrongly claimed three things in the past. Until we can test and see for ourselves locally - it is hearsay.

To recreate and test that "clear degradation" feature and see how fast the SOH will come back we need genuine Nissan Cable. FYI -usual Pasththru does not allow to get into re-programming features of Consult3+. The valuable outcome of that experiment for potential Leaf buyers and honest dealers who want to do things right way - would be recommendation of what needs to be done (e.g. number of full charge/discharge cycles) for the SOH to come back to norm after intentional reset by dodgy sellers overseas.

Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair

EVsEnhanced

18 posts

Geek

#2006403 2-May-2018 09:37

RUKI:

I found where the LBSOH was hiding in Consult3+ That I think is the measure of battery degradation. Work Support Section in Consult 3+ has feature: "clear battery degradation" - that is what I suppose is happening in Japan before selling cars here. Nissan Tech from overseas said one full charge discharge is enough for SOH to come back. But they have already wrongly claimed three things in the past. Until we can test and see for ourselves locally - it is hearsay.

I've already conducted this test and my results were quite different than what your Nissan Tech contact said. The battery had an actual SoH around 90%. Starting at 100% with a reset and cycling close to end to end to help the BMS learn quickly, the SoH in the BMS approached the actual SoH like a decaying exponential curve. It dropped very quickly at the start and was down to 95% within two cycles. Actually on the first cycle nothing happened (stuck on 100%), but in the second discharge cycle it dropped 5% after quite a short drive. But it took many more cycles (over a week of driving) to get to about 92% and another couple of weeks after that to settle back to 90%.

Martin_NZ

130 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#2009364 7-May-2018 16:39

Does anyone know the latest on the proposed RUC due to be introduced in December 2021.

At the under 3500kg rate which is currently the lowest it's going to cost an extra $6.20 per 100km effectively tripling (and then some) the cost of running a leaf.

This will make a significant impact on the viability and lifetime cost of running an EV.

Do people think it is likely this will go ahead or be delayed further or scrapped or something else?

Thanks

wellygary

8203 posts

Uber Geek

#2009370 7-May-2018 16:46

Martin_NZ:

Does anyone know the latest on the proposed RUC due to be introduced in December 2021.

There is no proposal to introduce EV RUC in 2021,

it is just that is when the current exemption runs out, - i.e the RUC will be imposed simply by the exemption expiring, nothing else,

Now WHETHER this actually happens is still not clear, the RUC exemption might be extended (eg if EVs haven't hit 2%) or the govt sees it as a way to incentivise EVs, - or NZTA might actually get around to creating a RUC bracket for light cars ( sub 2 tonne) that is cheaper ..... there are a myriad of possibilities,

At the moment there is simply no way to tell what will happen in 3 years time,

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2009381 7-May-2018 17:02

wellygary:

At the moment there is simply no way to tell what will happen in 3 years time,

We do know, however, that the current government supports fighting against climate change. They will want to encourage EVs.

It is hard to know what they will do, but it is clear to me that they won't kill the change away from fossil fuels. Creating a new category for RUCs for smaller cars would be a sensible option and a fairer one.

EVs are generally cheaper than fossil fuel burners to make, except for the batteries. Hopefully technological advances over the next few years can drastically lower that battery cost.

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2009401 7-May-2018 17:14

Martin_NZ:

Does anyone know the latest on the proposed RUC due to be introduced in December 2021.

There is no RUC on EV's, so the exemption means they haven't even created the category yet. Even if the exemption wasn't there, the tax would still be 0$ as there is no category for it. No RUC for bicycles either.

It seems likely to me that the government would either introduce a RUC for EV's (which would be cheap or exempt if they want to encourage EV uptake) or further incentives on top of an extended RUC exemption.

It really depends on how serious the government is on climate change. I can't see them rolling back the RUC exemption anytime soon, since that was really a bare minimum measure National came up with. I would assume Labour is more climate conscious.

Martin_NZ

130 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#2009413 7-May-2018 17:35

happyfunball:

Martin_NZ:

Does anyone know the latest on the proposed RUC due to be introduced in December 2021.

There is no RUC on EV's, so the exemption means they haven't even created the category yet. Even if the exemption wasn't there, the tax would still be 0$ as there is no category for it. No RUC for bicycles either.

It seems likely to me that the government would either introduce a RUC for EV's (which would be cheap or exempt if they want to encourage EV uptake) or further incentives on top of an extended RUC exemption.

It really depends on how serious the government is on climate change. I can't see them rolling back the RUC exemption anytime soon, since that was really a bare minimum measure National came up with. I would assume Labour is more climate conscious.

Thats not correct. If the exemption is not extended (or an entirely new category created) an EV would fall into the 3500kg or less category being as it's a non-petrol powered motor vehicle. (BTW a bicycle is not a motor vehicle therefore it's irrelevant to this discussion)

RUC is not "diesel" tax it's for NON-PETROL powered vehicles. Therefore by default an EV would fall into this category. The question is would this be fair given I could dump a large diesel SUV into the same category which produces far more emissions and conceivably more damage to the road.

SaltyNZ

8105 posts

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2degrees

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#2009439 7-May-2018 18:27

And I think the answer is no, it wouldn't be fair, and they wouldn't do it.

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PhantomNVD

2619 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2009857 8-May-2018 11:52

happyfunball:

RUKI:

happyfunball:

........

... Nissan didn't consider battery degradation to be a problem, just cell failure. It seems this 30kwh issue and the earlier hot climate issues on Gen1 cars really took them by surprise.

Nissan still does not consider drop of SOH to be an issue. Nissan NZ recently issued an official report on a particular Leaf with allegedly dropped SOH and have not found that particular car battery to have any issues.

Would be interesting to know what is Nissan NZ' criteria/threshold to consider any claims for this combination: 24/30kWh & ODO & Manufacture Date & SOH.

Nissan NZ doesn't measure degradation or capacity, I had a test done on my car a few weeks ago and can verify that they didn't measure capacity or even know how to check for degradation. The tech admitted to me they didn't measure capacity at all, no measure of energy in or out of the battery. They didn't know about the LSSOH value or how to find it (the legendary SOH that various ODB2 readers expose, such as LeafSpy).

All they look for is failed cells. Degradation is covered in the Nissan warranty in other markets, so its not covered in their consult tool clearly. Its just not on their radar and it seems like they are not familiar with the technology.

I'm sure that will change with time, but honestly you can have any level of degradation and their consult tools will say the battery is just fine as long as there isn't a failed cell.

Looking at this thread " target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=73&topicid=225973&page_no=3[/url]

the Tesla PowerWall2 goes for NZ$8,500, weighs 130Kgs and comes in a neat 1150x755x155mm package [url]https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall%202_AC_Datasheet_en_northamerica.pdf[url]

Is there any reason why this couldn't viably be adapted to AC/DC charge the 2011 Leaf turning my 80%SoH (19KWh) into an 'as new' 32KWh leaf with a little less boot/back seat space?

I'd say $1000 for wiring/charge cable (run underneath?) and losing only 0.1M3 of volume, this is an extremely attractive outlook when my battery no longer covers the distance I 'need' for my commute....

Thoughts?

tripper1000

1602 posts

Uber Geek

#2009974 8-May-2018 13:56

This kind of thing has been done before if you look around on the Leaf forums. I've not seen it done with a power-wall, but with a second Leaf Battery. I think the consensuses from the guys that did that was that it made the car too heavy so they didn't recommend anyone else try it. They went DC to DC as it was far simpler than AC to DC.

AC to DC would require a standalone charger cos the built in charger can't be operated while the car is running. Also max discharge rate on that power-wall is 5Kw, so it would behave more like a range extender than traction battery.

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