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67 posts

Master Geek


  #2068280 5-Aug-2018 16:11
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Has anyone been in touch with Gazley about getting the fix applied?

1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2068329 5-Aug-2018 19:41
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leaflearner:

 

Meanwhile, Walter Larason has explained the background of the update he has installed more than sufficiently to allay any concern over its safety. Why else would multiple importers/dealers be putting their own reputations on the line by facilitating it? Why else would the owners be happy to risk their cars' future dependability? 

 

 

The latest “Flip the Fleet” report says that:

 

“In June 2018 Nissan released a service campaign for its UK and USA customers, where the firmware of the car’s LBC can be upgraded in 30 kWh cars manufactured from December 2015 to August 2017. The upgrade applies to LBC firmware versions ending in 4A, 4B, 5A and 5B.  This update purports to correct the reported State of Health (SoH) of the car and correct the underestimation of range.”

 

In a posting on this forum on 26 June 2018, “Linuxluver” said that:

 

"The patch for the 30kWh LEAFs has been downloaded here by EV Enhanced in Christchurch and they have flashed a test car. I'm told this is possible because EU law requires such patches to be made publicly available, so access to it is completely legal. Walter, at EV Enhanced has said that if Nissan locally don't step up, he'll make the patch available here (if no one else does). 

I think Nissan will step up. There are almost a thousand 30kWh LEAFs on the road here and this is where Flip the Fleet did the testing that gave substance to the perception of rapid battery decline......a report that has had global impact. If Nissan can "fix" the cars here,  then the issue will be addressed in information terms - globally - via FTF's further reporting on progress."

 

Now that Nissan has “stepped up” and is providing this software in New Zealand via its dealer network, will EVs Enhanced patch now be withdrawn from sale? After all, Walter’s patch has now served its purpose during the time when an official Nissan patch wasn’t available here.

 

Also, I wonder whether Walter’s patch produces exactly the same results as Nissan’s patch?

 

It’s interesting that Linuxluver says that he has been told that “EU law requires such patches to be made publicly available so access to it is completely legal” because most software is copyright protected and does not permit third parties to copy it or sell it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


1546 posts

Uber Geek


  #2068331 5-Aug-2018 19:51
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gzt: Ok, the cutting part does not sound good to me. Off to look at videos on how effective the tyre gunk is..

 

It's not that great an idea to be honest, my Smart comes with an electric pump and the can of gloop, I think if I were to use it the tyre dealer would probably charge/curse me for cleaning it all out to fix the tyre properly :-)

 

If I get a flat I'll just use the AA to tow me!


40 posts

Geek


  #2068340 5-Aug-2018 20:35
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frednz:

 

 

 

....Also, I wonder whether Walter’s patch produces exactly the same results as Nissan’s patch?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walter's patch has produced the result that many 30kWh owners in NZ have been awaiting for most of this year. For my car, his work has definitely done everything expected of it. Flip the Fleet has been getting all the relevant data (before and after) directly via a Vasily Levshin Black Box. Nissan's "official" patch (which legally might not be official since they are not the manufacturer of record in NZ) can therefore do no more, maybe not even as well. Furthermore, I have been given the impression in all correspondence I've had since February of this year that local Nissan dealerships do not share the interest and enthusiasm for Leafs shown by the independent importers/dealers and Walter Larason/EVs Enhanced.

 

I will certainly understand if Walter now withdraws from providing the firmware upgrade. Once ... if ... Nissan has the requisite trained and experienced staff to handle such work reliably, Walter may return to other EV projects more in keeping for a man of his talents and initiative.

 

Incidentally, as I suspect you are not a Leaf owner, may I ask why you take such an interest in the 30kWh firmware issue? When I said earlier today that your posts were prevailingly negative, I meant your posts overall to "Nissan LEAF - General", not just these latest ones.


1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2068345 5-Aug-2018 21:02
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leaflearner:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

....Also, I wonder whether Walter’s patch produces exactly the same results as Nissan’s patch?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walter's patch has produced the result that many 30kWh owners in NZ have been awaiting for most of this year. For my car, his work has definitely done everything expected of it. Flip the Fleet has been getting all the relevant data (before and after) directly via a Vasily Levshin Black Box. Nissan's "official" patch (which legally might not be official since they are not the manufacturer of record in NZ) can therefore do no more, maybe not even as well. Furthermore, I have been given the impression in all correspondence I've had since February of this year that local Nissan dealerships do not share the interest and enthusiasm for Leafs shown by the independent importers/dealers and Walter Larason/EVs Enhanced.

 

I will certainly understand if Walter now withdraws from providing the firmware upgrade. Once ... if ... Nissan has the requisite trained and experienced staff to handle such work reliably, Walter may return to other EV projects more in keeping for a man of his talents and initiative.

 

Incidentally, as I suspect you are not a Leaf owner, may I ask why you take such an interest in the 30kWh firmware issue? When I said earlier today that your posts were prevailingly negative, I meant your posts overall to "Nissan LEAF - General", not just these latest ones.

 

 

Although Walter's patch may have done "everything expected of it", I just wondered whether his patch has been reviewed by Nissan Japan to ensure that it's safe and contains no errors and produces exactly the same results as the patch produced by Nissan Japan? Come on, it really is stretching a point to say that the patch issued by Nissan for use in NZ may not be legally regarded as an "official patch"!

 

Contrary to what you say, I'm not negative about Nissan Leaf vehicles, they serve an excellent purpose for a lot of people!


18 posts

Geek


  #2068362 5-Aug-2018 22:23
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frednz:

 

Now that Nissan has “stepped up” and is providing this software in New Zealand via its dealer network, will EVs Enhanced patch now be withdrawn from sale? After all, Walter’s patch has now served its purpose during the time when an official Nissan patch wasn’t available here.

 

 

That is the plan.  We have asked all of our partners to contact customers that they had booked in for updates and recommend that take up Nissan NZ's offer if their local dealer is 'Leaf certified' and therefore offering the 30kWh LBC update.  There are a few cities around NZ that aren't covered by a Nissan dealer offering this update, so in these few cases we may still end up assisting.   For the most part we want to show support for Nissan NZ's positive move (even if it is a slow and small one) and don't see any need to compete with their dealers on a service they are happy to offer.


282 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2068421 6-Aug-2018 06:35
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EVsEnhanced:

frednz:


Now that Nissan has “stepped up” and is providing this software in New Zealand via its dealer network, will EVs Enhanced patch now be withdrawn from sale? After all, Walter’s patch has now served its purpose during the time when an official Nissan patch wasn’t available here.



That is the plan.  We have asked all of our partners to contact customers that they had booked in for updates and recommend that take up Nissan NZ's offer if their local dealer is 'Leaf certified' and therefore offering the 30kWh LBC update.  There are a few cities around NZ that aren't covered by a Nissan dealer offering this update, so in these few cases we may still end up assisting.   For the most part we want to show support for Nissan NZ's positive move (even if it is a slow and small one) and don't see any need to compete with their dealers on a service they are happy to offer.



Should those of us who patched at GVI over the past weeks also get the official patch from Nissan or ignore it?

 
 
 
 


40 posts

Geek


  #2068449 6-Aug-2018 08:54
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frednz:

 

 

 

Although Walter's patch may have done "everything expected of it", I just wondered whether his patch has been reviewed by Nissan Japan to ensure that it's safe and contains no errors and produces exactly the same results as the patch produced by Nissan Japan? Come on, it really is stretching a point to say that the patch issued by Nissan for use in NZ may not be legally regarded as an "official patch"!

 

Contrary to what you say, I'm not negative about Nissan Leaf vehicles, they serve an excellent purpose for a lot of people!

 

 

 

 

I can't imagine Nissan Japan condescending to review Walter's work to see that it's "safe and contains no errors". Moreover, would anyone be able to trust their review? As you yourself said just yesterday: "I just can’t understand how Nissan could have got the 30 kWh software so badly wrong after all their experience with the successful software installed on the 24 kWh models."

 

Re "official": I was not trying to "stretch a point". If a misadventure should occur, with a grey-market car failing in any way that led to legal action, I'm sure the lawyers would argue over the extent of Nissan's culpability. To repeat, the importer is apparently held to be the "NZ manufacturer". 


5362 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2068451 6-Aug-2018 09:01
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EVsEnhanced:

 

That is the plan.  We have asked all of our partners to contact customers that they had booked in for updates and recommend that take up Nissan NZ's offer if their local dealer is 'Leaf certified' and therefore offering the 30kWh LBC update.  There are a few cities around NZ that aren't covered by a Nissan dealer offering this update, so in these few cases we may still end up assisting.   For the most part we want to show support for Nissan NZ's positive move (even if it is a slow and small one) and don't see any need to compete with their dealers on a service they are happy to offer.

 

 

 

 

Well, with that in mind, I've booked my car in for Friday. I would like to personally say thank you for your efforts on behalf of all of us 30kWh owners, as well FtF for publicising the problem as well as validating that the patch makes an actual difference.

 

I'll report back with my results.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


40 posts

Geek


  #2068591 6-Aug-2018 12:49
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happyfunball

Should those of us who patched at GVI over the past weeks also get the official patch from Nissan or ignore it?

 

 

 

Would that not be an unnecessary expense? See EVs Enhanced's post here of 3 August (page 150). To me, this suggests the Walter Larason update is in no way inferior to anything now belatedly offered by Nissan.


282 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2068646 6-Aug-2018 13:30
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leaflearner:

 

happyfunball

Should those of us who patched at GVI over the past weeks also get the official patch from Nissan or ignore it?

 

 

 

Would that not be an unnecessary expense? See EVs Enhanced's post here of 3 August (page 150). To me, this suggests the Walter Larason update is in no way inferior to anything now belatedly offered by Nissan.

 

 

My dealer is offering it for free (paying for Nissan to do it).  I'm just wondering if there is any upside to that for me, given it will take a couple of hours out of my day.

 

 


40 posts

Geek


  #2068680 6-Aug-2018 14:39
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happyfunball:

 

leaflearner:

 

happyfunball

Should those of us who patched at GVI over the past weeks also get the official patch from Nissan or ignore it?

 

 

 

Would that not be an unnecessary expense? See EVs Enhanced's post here of 3 August (page 150). To me, this suggests the Walter Larason update is in no way inferior to anything now belatedly offered by Nissan.

 

 

My dealer is offering it for free (paying for Nissan to do it).  I'm just wondering if there is any upside to that for me, given it will take a couple of hours out of my day.

 

 

 

 

If you do go ahead, and spare those couple of hours, do make sure it is at your dealer's recommendation. Your car, being a 2016 or '17 model, must be "fit for purpose" under the Consumer Guarantees Act. It can be argued that it isn't without an upgrade to rectify its poor instrumentation.

 

You, or anyone else, can go to Nissan off your own bat and instruct them to do the update. But then who would be responsible in the unlikely (but possible) chance of something going badly wrong with your car afterwards? Nissan are not the "NZ manufacturer" of the car (ridiculous though that sounds) and would offer no warranty, other than perhaps of their upgrade workmanship. I could envisage a fine old "pass the buck" squabble between Nissan NZ and the importer/"manufacturer" with a poor owner stuck in the middle.

 

Unless something goes wrong with my car as a result of its non-Nissan upgrade, I will not be seeking an "official" patch. I have greater confidence in what Walter Larason has done than in what might be offered at a Nissan workshop where the work will almost certainly be carried out by a mechanic, well-instructed no doubt but with less experience of EVs at this stage.


1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2068727 6-Aug-2018 15:24
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happyfunball:

 

leaflearner:

 

happyfunball

Should those of us who patched at GVI over the past weeks also get the official patch from Nissan or ignore it?

 

 

 

Would that not be an unnecessary expense? See EVs Enhanced's post here of 3 August (page 150). To me, this suggests the Walter Larason update is in no way inferior to anything now belatedly offered by Nissan.

 

 

My dealer is offering it for free (paying for Nissan to do it).  I'm just wondering if there is any upside to that for me, given it will take a couple of hours out of my day.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't hesitate to take up that offer for all the reasons I have set out in my previous posts. It could well earn you more money on resale and provide peace of mind because Nissan is likely to be around for support for a lot longer than a small company which has provided an alternative unofficial firmware patch.

 

You have to look ahead and think what might happen when you sell the vehicle. I simply wouldn't buy a car (or anything else) that has been updated by third party firmware that has not been reviewed and approved by the company / people who originally wrote the software.

 

 


1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2068738 6-Aug-2018 15:33
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https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/30kwh-nissan-leaf-battery-issue-resolved-by-software-fix

 

"Consumer" has now withdrawn its original article about the 30 kWh Nissan Leaf fast battery degradation problem and replaced it with a new one linked to above.

 

Extract from above article (and suggest you read the full article):

 

"Why is there a cost? Well, Nissan New Zealand never officially imported the 30kWh Leaf. There are estimated to be about 800 of them here, all used-imports sourced mostly from Japan or the UK. The responsibility to fix them falls on the dealer who sold the car or the importer who brought it to our shores. Nissan NZ are supporting the cars by making the fix available. As the local representative of the company who released a faulty product to market, you might think that’s the least they can do.

 

We think owners with cars exhibiting this problem have a case under the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA). It states goods must be of “acceptable quality” and must do what they are meant to do. If your vehicle’s affected, you should go back to the dealer who sold the car (also likely to be the importer) and ask it to pay for the software update. You can also claim any reasonable costs you incur to get your car repaired."

 

I agree with the above sentiments, a 30 kWh Leaf owner really shouldn't have to pay anything for this update. Note the link in the article that deals with your rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act.

 

 


40 posts

Geek


  #2068918 6-Aug-2018 19:34
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I wouldn't hesitate to take up that offer for all the reasons I have set out in my previous posts. It could well earn you more money on resale and provide peace of mind because Nissan is likely to be around for support for a lot longer than a small company which has provided an alternative unofficial firmware patch.

 

You have to look ahead and think what might happen when you sell the vehicle. I simply wouldn't buy a car (or anything else) that has been updated by third party firmware that has not been reviewed and approved by the company / people who originally wrote the software.

 

 

 

 

You certainly have it in for Walter Larason and EVs Enhanced! Despite applauding Walter's impressive explanation of his work (5 August) you continue to cast aspersions.

 

Meanwhile, your claim that Nissan is likely to be around for support for a lot longer is open to question. At the moment, Nissan NZ is not around on the EV scene here at all, other than by taking its less-than-enthusiastic step of offering a software upgrade for a mistake made by their parent company in Japan.

 

They may be about to change their "hands off" approach, but that is only a hope and a possibility. Without government subsidies to EV buyers, I can't see them wanting to compete with near-new imports sold by owners in other countries who were subsidized.  I suppose the NZ Government might introduce subsidies, but it has many more pressing priorities on its budget. And would the electorate at large wear it?

 

As for not buying a Leaf "that has been updated by third-party firmware that has not been reviewed and approved by the company/people who originally wrote the software" ... that's ridiculous!

 

The company/people who wrote the software are the very ones who got it so very wrong in the first place as you yourself have acknowledged. To quote:

 

"I just can’t understand how Nissan could have got the 30 kWh software so badly wrong after all their experience with the successful software installed on the 24 kWh models."

 

Incidentally, by the time most 30kWh owners are ready to on-sell their vehicles, I suspect the EV market -- indeed, the car market in general -- will be a very different, much-changed place. The people buying "old technology" won't be the kind of people studying the fine-print nuances. As long as that old car goes, they will be happy.


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