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  #2136015 28-Nov-2018 15:09
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wellygary:

 

I Seriously doubt anything will be done about the existing fleet,  the number of cars impacted would be huge...and I seriously doubt the govt will stump up the 100s of millions/billions needed to actually make a real difference, + there is the issue of actual availability of significant numbers of EVs

 

JAG's Presence or Absence is pretty immaterial given that her Assoc. transport role went to James Shaw in her absence.

 



We'll find out in due course. If they are serious about doing something to address climate change then fiddling around the edges isn't an option.

As for JAG....I can see the announcement being delayed until her return and then Twyford and she can nail down the final details.

James Shaw was there in a care-taker capacity. I very much doubt he was driving. Too much else to do.





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  #2136017 28-Nov-2018 15:11
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SaltyNZ:

 

This piece is up on RNZ at the moment, discussing Norway, and explicitly suggesting that the stick is required as well as the carrot in order to make people shift.

 

 

Interesting article, but  hope this picture

is faked / staged.

 

Surely a four-turn coil with 32A running through it would generate a frighteningly strong magnetic field and probably enough heat to melt the plastic in a couple of minutes?

 

surprised


 
 
 
 


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  #2136025 28-Nov-2018 15:20
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PolicyGuy:

 

Interesting article, but  hope this picture

is faked / staged.

 

Surely a four-turn coil with 32A running through it would generate a frighteningly strong magnetic field and probably enough heat to melt the plastic in a couple of minutes?

 

surprised

 

 

Magnetic field: The fields from active and neutral cancel each other out!

 

Heat: The size of the conductors is such that the resistance is low and the heat generated is minimal. These aren't like your 10A extension cable.


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  #2136026 28-Nov-2018 15:21
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SaltyNZ:

 

This piece is up on RNZ at the moment, discussing Norway, and explicitly suggesting that the stick is required as well as the carrot in order to make people shift.

 

 

I listened to that the other day - well worth a listen to the full interview. 

 

You mention stick, but it's also the size of the carrot - Norway's take-up of EVs has been possible 0because the Norwegian government have been prepared to forgo substantial 'income', eg the absence of any VAT on new purchases. Part of the problem is NZ is never going to be in a position to be able (or prepared) to offer carrots of such magnitude.

 

Another interesting point she made was the keenness of EV makers to sell in Norway, where they know they will sell decent volumes - another reason why NZ is likely to continue to have a narrow range (and low sales) of new EVs.


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  #2136034 28-Nov-2018 15:28
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TYRES

 

The talk a few pages back about tyres on the Leaf has got me thinking - our Leaf's warrant is due next week, which made me wonder what I'd do if I needed to buy new tyres. I'm sure ours are fine at the moment, but I'd like to be prepared for the day they do need replacing.

 

We've got the standard tyres that come on the Japanese imports - Ecopias, I believe.

 

What recommendations are there for any tyre that manages to hit that sweet spot in taking into account price, on-road performance and decent rolling resistance? We'd be keen on 'quality mid-range' I'd say, and of those three variables we're probably more willing to sacrifice efficiency (simply because we very rarely need to eek out the full charge on the car: it's mostly a city car, typically doing only a handful of ks per day).

 

Thanks for any advice or recommendations.


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  #2136041 28-Nov-2018 15:35
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jonathan18:

SaltyNZ:

 

This piece is up on RNZ at the moment, discussing Norway, and explicitly suggesting that the stick is required as well as the carrot in order to make people shift.

 

 

I listened to that the other day - well worth a listen to the full interview. 

 

You mention stick, but it's also the size of the carrot - Norway's take-up of EVs has been possible 0because the Norwegian government have been prepared to forgo substantial 'income', eg the absence of any VAT on new purchases. Part of the problem is NZ is never going to be in a position to be able (or prepared) to offer carrots of such magnitude.

 

Another interesting point she made was the keenness of EV makers to sell in Norway, where they know they will sell decent volumes - another reason why NZ is likely to continue to have a narrow range (and low sales) of new EVs.

 

 

Our best bet would be to wait for Japan's uptake and subsequest second-hand imports, just like what happened with ICE's.

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  #2136047 28-Nov-2018 15:44
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SpartanVXL:

 

Our best bet would be to wait for Japan's uptake and subsequest second-hand imports, just like what happened with ICE's.

 

Don't be so sure about that. Was at the Net Carbon Neutral Towns conference last week and there are serious supply issues with EVs and both Aussie and UK are looking at the Japan second-hand market to help meet targets. So we might have a lot more competition there soon.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2136064 28-Nov-2018 15:47
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SpartanVXL: Our best bet would be to wait for Japan's uptake and subsequest second-hand imports, just like what happened with ICE's.

 

That that laziest plan I've heard in a while - to wait for the inevitable - ? It is also banking on nothing else changing - like Japan's tax system and consumption habits, or Australia relaxing their import rules now they don't have a domestic industry to protect. Used Jap imports could go up in price and down in availability shortly....


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  #2136069 28-Nov-2018 15:53
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jonathan18:

 

Another interesting point she made was the keenness of EV makers to sell in Norway, where they know they will sell decent volumes - another reason why NZ is likely to continue to have a narrow range (and low sales) of new EVs.

 

 

 

 

It's chicken & egg, though; the low sales are due to high prices and narrow range. The narrow range is due to low sales. But that's exactly why the government needs to put their thumb on the scales. NZTA's statistics show the light vehicle fleet annually grew by about the same amount as Norway's, even a little more, so if it can work in Norway it can work here.

 

The main difference is that (somewhat ironically) the Norwegian government makes a lot more from international oil exports than we do so it's probably a bit easier for them to forgo the revenue. Ultimately though, a feebate scheme upon first (or even subsequent!) registration will be revenue-neutral or positive for the government if they work it right.





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  #2136098 28-Nov-2018 16:22
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tripper1000:

SpartanVXL: Our best bet would be to wait for Japan's uptake and subsequest second-hand imports, just like what happened with ICE's.

 

That that laziest plan I've heard in a while - to wait for the inevitable - ? It is also banking on nothing else changing - like Japan's tax system and consumption habits, or Australia relaxing their import rules now they don't have a domestic industry to protect. Used Jap imports could go up in price and down in availability shortly....

 

 

I honestly don't see anybody in this country with the cajones to pull out a stick and/or carrot big enough to get the average kiwi to budge to EV's in a long while. People always go for the cheap as chups option, until you get EV's down there you'll find the most 'economical option' will prevail.

 

 

I'd love to get EV's in, and am looking at one for next year before my clunkers kick the bucket. I can afford it, but it will be seen as a rich persons gadget for a while to come.

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  #2136206 28-Nov-2018 17:22
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jonathan18:

 

You mention stick, but it's also the size of the carrot - Norway's take-up of EVs has been possible because the Norwegian government have been prepared to forgo substantial 'income', eg the absence of any VAT on new purchases.

 

 

The carrot is much greater than that. Norway has a substantial tax for all cars coming in. The tax + GST is often the same amount as the cost of the car.

 

With the EVs there are no tax and no GST, and the EVs also don't have to pay toll road duties, which are fairly substantial. In Oslo you have to pay at least $10 NZD per passing of the toll road.

 

In NZ it would be possible to tax ICE cars more heavily and use that extra income to subsidise EVs with no GST and possibly even a cash grant.

 

I don't think we will see significant uptake on EVs without some serious incentives, whats being done now is basically zero.


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  #2136234 28-Nov-2018 19:03
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Didn’t labour campaign on no new taxes? I think that means no changes until after the next election.

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  #2136243 28-Nov-2018 19:45
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jarledb:

 

jonathan18:

 

You mention stick, but it's also the size of the carrot - Norway's take-up of EVs has been possible because the Norwegian government have been prepared to forgo substantial 'income', eg the absence of any VAT on new purchases.

 

 

The carrot is much greater than that. Norway has a substantial tax for all cars coming in. The tax + GST is often the same amount as the cost of the car.

 

With the EVs there are no tax and no GST, and the EVs also don't have to pay toll road duties, which are fairly substantial. In Oslo you have to pay at least $10 NZD per passing of the toll road.

 

In NZ it would be possible to tax ICE cars more heavily and use that extra income to subsidise EVs with no GST and possibly even a cash grant.

 

I don't think we will see significant uptake on EVs without some serious incentives, whats being done now is basically zero.

 

 

Yep, I'm aware of the various aspects to how they encourage take-up (having listened to the interview) - that's why I gave VAT as an example!

 

The interviewee did mention, however, that they will soon be introducing toll road charges for EV owners; she indicated that they will not be at the same level as for other vehicles, but this appears to be contradicted by the following:

 

Although Norway’s Stortinget parliament decided as part of its 2017 budget that tolls for electric vehicles should not exceed half of similar payments made by fossil fuel-powered vehicles, complete exemption will be phased out over the coming years.

 

https://www.thelocal.no/20180417/electric-cars-in-norway-will-pay-tolls-with-exemption-to-be-scrapped

 

 

 

 


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  #2136266 28-Nov-2018 20:46
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I already pay the same tolls as an ICEV... Costs me over $100 a month!





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  #2136398 29-Nov-2018 08:30
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jonathan18:

 

TYRES

 

The talk a few pages back about tyres on the Leaf has got me thinking - our Leaf's warrant is due next week, which made me wonder what I'd do if I needed to buy new tyres. I'm sure ours are fine at the moment, but I'd like to be prepared for the day they do need replacing.

 

We've got the standard tyres that come on the Japanese imports - Ecopias, I believe.

 

What recommendations are there for any tyre that manages to hit that sweet spot in taking into account price, on-road performance and decent rolling resistance? We'd be keen on 'quality mid-range' I'd say, and of those three variables we're probably more willing to sacrifice efficiency (simply because we very rarely need to eek out the full charge on the car: it's mostly a city car, typically doing only a handful of ks per day).

 

Thanks for any advice or recommendations.

 

 

Bump - at the risk of bringing this thread back to its namesake, has anyone advice or recommendations for decent-but-affordable tyres?


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