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  Reply # 1613524 18-Aug-2016 08:07
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Also apartment people do not have any reasonable way to get power on their meter to their carparks.





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  Reply # 1613863 18-Aug-2016 17:07
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Scott3:

 

Aredwood:

 

This thread is a good justification for going nuts with a mains cable upgrade. Current cable is 60M of 16mm2 direct buried copper. Supposedly good for 40A according to Gencalc. But I can't go much over 20A without volt drop getting excessive. Due to the almost 50Year old underground street mains.

 

Would probably go for 95mm2 Al cables because overkill. And less need to replace internal wiring to make it compliant with volt drop rules.

 

Now if @vector could please replace the street mains and install Natural Gas while they are at it. Especially as I can't get 3 phase, my side of the street only has single phase.

 

Whats your main breaker sized at?

 

20A would be terribly limiting (without having most of the house on gas, which is not really ideal given you don't have piped NZ extracted natural gas available).

 

I think I am getting to the limit of a our 63A breaker (hot water on its own 16A main breaker, Assume pole fuse is 80A). I have no gas here, but don't have an electric car either.

I think I could add a 16A car charger, But if I went 32A, I would need to make sure it doesn't get used while cooking.

 

 

 

 

One of the nifty things about my leaf is that you can tell the car at what time to start charging so I am looking at telling it to start charging at 11pm which will avoid the times when we are running anything drawing much power.At this stage I'm going to get a 16A caravan socket along the driveway on its own circuit to mainboard.

 

If I went for a 32A charger in theory it would take only 4 hours to charge which I would schedule for the early morning. But not sure I want to go down that line with my old house (1920's) + I would need to buy a home charger unit to supply that current. (my leaf has the 6.6kW charger)

 

 

 

A.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1613872 18-Aug-2016 17:21
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Does anyone have experience of providing charging points in an apartment complex garage?


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  Reply # 1614021 18-Aug-2016 22:57
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alasta:

 

I have an off-street park at my place, but it is at least 25 metres away from my flat.

 

 

Technically this isn't an issue, running a 25m cable either in a trench or in conduit to a EVSE (charger) mounted post near your off street car-park is not too hard.

Of course it adds cost, and if you rent your flat, the first EV owner would need to somehow convince the landlord to have the work done (Perhaps splitting the cost of wiring 50/50, with the agreement that all wiring (terminating in say a 16A caravan socket) would be left in place when the tenancy ends. Some body corps always resist change, so may be hard to get permission (my not want any viable conduit etc).

 

 

 

richms:

 

Also apartment people do not have any reasonable way to get power on their meter to their carparks.

 

 

 

 

For new buildings it is easy for the developer to provision whatever electrical you want. (of course wire costs money...)

 

For existing buildings it can be harder. If there is space in the (accessible) electrical riser, it could be feasible to run a wire from the car-park back to an individual apartment.

 

Otherwise the EV charging would need to run off common building power (generally a metering / billing system is required as nobody likes a freeloader)

 

Smart system's are available to reduce total capacity requirements Link (Basically in the rare situation where everybody tries to charge at once, the system throttles / queues users to stay under a preset limit to avoid breakers tripping, or requirement for a very expensive upgrade to building feeders, and lines company capacity provisioning)

 

Of course the same issues with body corporate, aesthetics etc apply.

 

 

 

I would expect commercial parking buildings near apartment buildings to start offering EV charging as a premium service. Either by a reserved bay (and premium fee to cover power cost, or metered power), or some kind of charge.net style billing system. In the US it appears that the cost structure of the commercial charging networks add a lot to the cost of power, to the point where it's not cost effective to own an EV if this is your only way to charge.

 

 

 

As a side note, a newish apartment building on college hill has a row of car stackers in the the parking deck. These would have needed to be provisioned power (quite possibly three phase power).




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  Reply # 1614656 19-Aug-2016 21:26
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alasta:

Linuxluver:


Most EV owners would charge at home. Charging away from home would occur on intercity trips and on days when the driver of the EV is driving atypically long distances in their local area. This doesn't happen often for most people as the range of a Nissan Leaf Generation 2 is about 135km-150km in the city (depending on topography, driving style and ambient temperature). 



The the slow demise of white picket fences and quarter acre sections I think you are underestimating the number of people who don't have a garage and are unable to park their vehicles within reach of a power point. I have an off-street park at my place, but it is at least 25 metres away from my flat.



Fair enough! Then you would be a user of public chargers or a power point away from your home that was available to you during the day. I'm aware of a couple of people in this position. So far, it's hasn't lead to any congestion issues and in the past two days four more fast chargers came online (two at the BP at 322 Pakuranga Rd, Howick and two more at the Airport Shopping Centre).




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dwl

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  Reply # 1614679 19-Aug-2016 22:50
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Linuxluver:
alasta:

Linuxluver:


Most EV owners would charge at home. Charging away from home would occur on intercity trips and on days when the driver of the EV is driving atypically long distances in their local area. This doesn't happen often for most people as the range of a Nissan Leaf Generation 2 is about 135km-150km in the city (depending on topography, driving style and ambient temperature). 



The the slow demise of white picket fences and quarter acre sections I think you are underestimating the number of people who don't have a garage and are unable to park their vehicles within reach of a power point. I have an off-street park at my place, but it is at least 25 metres away from my flat.



Fair enough! Then you would be a user of public chargers or a power point away from your home that was available to you during the day. I'm aware of a couple of people in this position. So far, it's hasn't lead to any congestion issues and in the past two days four more fast chargers came online (two at the BP at 322 Pakuranga Rd, Howick and two more at the Airport Shopping Centre).

My view is no access to cheap power overnight and a high reliance on public charging makes EVs in NZ significantly less attractive. If paying for rapid charging then costs are high (even free may start charging) but more importantly access to the chargers will be an issue. For casual use if you are held up say 1 in 5 times no big deal as overall a tiny percentage of all charges but if 1 in 5 of charges you need it would be a pain.

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  Reply # 1614682 19-Aug-2016 23:09
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For me convenience is king.

 

Waking up every morning to a fully fueled, heated car = More convenient than petrol

 

Having to find time to charge up every 100km or so = Much less convenient.

 

 

 

Electric vehicles are at the early adopter stage. I would not consider purchasing one if it couldn't charge it at home (or at a stretch at work). I would not recommend an electric car to those who rely on street parking. There are plenty of people with driveways, garages etc which are better suited to electric vehicle ownership (especially multi car households where only the larger vehicle is used for holidays etc.




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  Reply # 1614712 20-Aug-2016 08:09
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Scott3:

For me convenience is king.


Waking up every morning to a fully fueled, heated car = More convenient than petrol


Having to find time to charge up every 100km or so = Much less convenient.


 


Electric vehicles are at the early adopter stage. I would not consider purchasing one if it couldn't charge it at home (or at a stretch at work). I would not recommend an electric car to those who rely on street parking. There are plenty of people with driveways, garages etc which are better suited to electric vehicle ownership (especially multi car households where only the larger vehicle is used for holidays etc.



Generally true, unless the person concerned is prepared to make the compromises. A 30kw LEAF can do about 170km reliably. For anyone just driving around town or to nearby cities, this isn't a problem, even if they relief in public chargers 2-3 times / week.

.We are SO close!!!




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  Reply # 1614713 20-Aug-2016 08:09
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Scott3:

 

For me convenience is king.

 

 

 

Waking up every morning to a fully fueled, heated car = More convenient than petrol

 

 

 

Having to find time to charge up every 100km or so = Much less convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Electric vehicles are at the early adopter stage. I would not consider purchasing one if it couldn't charge it at home (or at a stretch at work). I would not recommend an electric car to those who rely on street parking. There are plenty of people with driveways, garages etc which are better suited to electric vehicle ownership (especially multi car households where only the larger vehicle is used for holidays etc.

 



Generally true, unless the person concerned is prepared to make the compromises. A 30kw LEAF can do about 170km reliably.

That's Greenlane, Auckland to Marsden Point to the north on SH1

 

or Greenlane, Auckland to Aongatete / Omokoroa  - past Katikati - to the east on SH2....

 

or Greenlane, Auckland to Otorohanga to the south on SH3

 

Or Greenlane, Auckland to Tirau on SH1.

 

Re-charge and do it again. 

For anyone just driving around town or to nearby cities, this isn't a problem, even if they rely on public chargers 2-3 times / week.

.We are SO close!!!





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  Reply # 1621080 1-Sep-2016 22:28
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I've had my 2015 Gen 2 LEAF for just under 3 months now. It's been a fascinating experience making the mental transition from petrol car habits to electric car habits. The facts and features of the change itself are one aspect but the other is how one's mind acquires 'habits' and ways of seeing things shaped by a certain context....and if the context changes we're forced to re-think some things from first principles. 

 

I find that process of challenging and re-shaping habits and perceptions to be really useful. 

 

Anyway.....this post is about driving habits. Specifically those on longer highway journeys. 

 

This week I have been driving each day from Greenlane in Auckland to downtown Hamilton to do some work. Each evening, I drove back again. The one-way distance from one place to the other was just under 120km. 

On the first day, I just drove on down. About 110kph (actual 100kph on the GPS) on the Southern motorway. Over the Bombay Hill....and so one. It was cold. I had the heater on a couple of times. I used the seat warmer. I turned on the heated steering wheel. I arrived at the Waikato Electric fast charger in Te Rapa on 18%. That's cool. Two previous trips had been 18% and 19%. I expected it. 

 

I connected to the WEL charger and went and had the Big Breakfast at the nearby Donovan's Cafe. I stopped it at 95% and then drove downtown and arrived there on 90%. From there, I drove home....no special effort...and arrived on 4%.....and let rip on the way up the southern motorway because I knew I had more than enough power.

 

But I wondered if I could do better. I didn't really want to drive more slowly. Say 90 in a 100 zone. Reduce the wind resistance (It squares - gets bad fast - as you speed up). I'd tried that one trip down a few weeks ago and arrived on 24%, but I was 'that guy' who got in the way on the two-lane bits more than I liked. 

 

So what else? 

Maybe following big trucks might. Not right up their backsides.....just 4-5 car lengths back. Let them break / take the wind....and I coast in their wake. 

 

Well.....that REALLY works. Of course it will work for any car and reduce fuel use, but it's especially useful for electric cars in extending range. 

The first day I tried it, I just happened to pick up a big truck coming onto the southern motorway at Takanini. He was doing about 105-110. I thought that might chew up my battery......but no. At that speed what eats my battery is drag...and behind the truck the drag was much reduced. So I was both going faster AND using less power. Cool. 

I arrived at WEL in Te Rapa on 28% that day. a full 10% better than my previous, slight slower, trips....and LOT faster than my 'slow' 24% effort. I also noticed that the GOM (Guess o Meter) on the dash was estimating some serioulsy decent range if I kept this up. On this day, it was steadily showing me as being able to do 160-165km on a full charge. That's pretty good. I generally count on at least 140km and can make some effort and get to 150km....but 165? Awesome. ..and that's a route that includes the Bombay Hill and some ups and downs between there and Mercer / Meremere.  

The next day I caught a big, heavy truck at the bottom of the northern side of the Bombay Hill. This guy was going a bit slower. Maybe 90-95kph. Less on the big hills. This made my LEAF even more efficient. I was doing my 'careful' speed and paying a very low price in power for it. At one point, going through Huntly at 70kph, the actual kms already done plus the estimated remained totaled 176km....with more than 3/4 of the trip already finished. I was thinking I'd found the Holy Grail. This was awesome. I took a photo. As you can see, I've done almost 100km and still have close to half of my battery left. 

I arrived in Te Rapa on 31%. Almost double the battery remaining of two days prior. That extra 14%-15% is a very real 25km extra range. I'll be following more trucks in my travels. The things is....this works for any kind of car. On a $100 tank of petrol you could easily save $15 on a road trip in terms of extra distance per tank.  

In a petrol car I never thought this way. I'm sorry I didn't. I wasted a LOT of money over the 40 years I've been driving. This is just one of the many re-wiring features of switching from petrol to battery. This week I drove about 800km in my LEAF....and it cost me about $15 in electricity at home...and $0 for the use of the free charger at WEL. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1621143 2-Sep-2016 07:30
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Hi thanks for sharing. Do you find B mode makes much of a difference on top of ECO?

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  Reply # 1621181 2-Sep-2016 09:05
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Great post Linuxluver! I have actually seen EVs here in Norway doing the same, and I will be sure to try that trick myself on longer trips. Both with the EV and when I am back to my gas-gussler when I am back in NZ.

 

Have been driving the rental Leaf for 3 weeks now, and its a much better experience than any other car (with the exception of the Model S) that I have driven. Its zippy from 0-50 and does have a pretty good uptake at other speeds as well.

 

Adding that I can use the bus lanes, have free public parking and don't have to pay the toll road, its pretty sweet :)

 

 

 

PS: Linuxluver: What is the price for using the fast chargers in NZ? Here its 41 cents per minute. So a 30 minute charge (which pretty much tops up the Leaf) is around $12 NZD.





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  Reply # 1621388 2-Sep-2016 13:25
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I don't do this at present (petrol) because

a) hate looking at the back of a big truck!
b) higher risk of stone chips to windscreen etc.

The method is a significant saving in charging convenience if driving electric so maybe I would reconsider. As for the stone chips maybe it is about picking the right trucks. Any doing rural roads or picking up partly tarred gravel are the ones to avoid. Hard to pick I'm thinking. Some routes will be worse than others.





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  Reply # 1621404 2-Sep-2016 13:35
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paulchinnz: Hi thanks for sharing. Do you find B mode makes much of a difference on top of ECO?

 

I have a 2015 Gen 2 Model S. It doesn't seem to have B mode....or I don't know how to run it on. There's nothing on the steering wheel but the horn and the shifter toggles back and forth between ECO on and ECO off.....and the dash has a little "A" on it. I don't know how to get it to say "B". Maybe I should google that, eh? 

 

I always have ECO on.....it gives me an extra 5-10km depending in the context..and I see no point in giving that away in exchange for (a faster) "ZOOM". My LEAF zooms just fine in ECO mode. :-) 





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  Reply # 1621405 2-Sep-2016 13:43
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jarledb:

 

Great post Linuxluver! I have actually seen EVs here in Norway doing the same, and I will be sure to try that trick myself on longer trips. Both with the EV and when I am back to my gas-gussler when I am back in NZ.



Thanks! :-) I've explained it to a couple of people and they assume I'm really close. Just in case, I'd like to be clear I'm typically 30m-40m behind. Far enough to be safe, close enough to gain at least some benefit of the truck breaking the wall of air in front.

 

 

Have been driving the rental Leaf for 3 weeks now, and its a much better experience than any other car (with the exception of the Model S) that I have driven. Its zippy from 0-50 and does have a pretty good uptake at other speeds as well.

 

Adding that I can use the bus lanes, have free public parking and don't have to pay the toll road, its pretty sweet :)

 

Do you find the EVs clog the bus lanes? Are PHEVs allowed to do this, too?  

 

PS: Linuxluver: What is the price for using the fast chargers in NZ? Here its 41 cents per minute. So a 30 minute charge (which pretty much tops up the Leaf) is around $12 NZD.

 

Most fast chargers in Auckland are still free. Vector (owned by the community-owned power trust) has set them up. They will start charging at some point but may price similarly to charge.net.nz who operate fast chargers all over the country and between major cities. They charge 25 cents / kw + 25 cents / minute. So the most cost-effective way to use them is to charge 80% only (the "fast" part) and avoid the slower (battery-careful) charging phase between 80-100. A typical session like that would be about NZ$5 from 20% to 80%. Repeat in about 90 minutes if you're not 'there' yet. :-)    





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