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240 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2188668 28-Feb-2019 10:25
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Alright. I see your point. Whether the firmware was installed at factory in 2017 or as an update later isn't the sole basis of my question. 

 

My point / question is why does the current firmware on the 30KW Leaf indicate battery SOH @ 105% on a car manufactured over 1 - 2 yrs ago & has already travelled 8,000KM ?


282 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2188702 28-Feb-2019 11:00
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clive100:

Alright. I see your point. Whether the firmware was installed at factory in 2017 or as an update later isn't the sole basis of my question. 


My point / question is why does the current firmware on the 30KW Leaf indicate battery SOH @ 105% on a car manufactured over 1 - 2 yrs ago & has already travelled 8,000KM ?



Capacity changes by temperature, so if a 100% SOH battery got hot it should hold more than 100.

Also if 100 is just some arbitrary number from a 30kwh car in 2015 it’s very possible the newer cars hold more. It’s also possible LeafSpy needs to change this reading.

Gids were always more useful so it would be interesting to see them when it’s reporting a very high SOH. If I was buying a leaf I’d look at gids on a fully charged battery.

 
 
 
 


18 posts

Geek


  #2188768 28-Feb-2019 12:43
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Originally all 30kWh Leaf battery modules were built in the USA even on the UK and Japanese cars.   The lithium battery controller (LBC) that was used with these modules had a part number ending in 4A or 4B in production which which are the ones that get firmware updated to 4C.  All three of these versions define 100% SoH as 79.48Ah.   

 

In late 2016, Japan starting producing what appears to be a superior 30kWh module and this was paired with its own LBC firmware version ending in 6A.  There is no firmware update for this version and with these 100% SoH is defined as 80.97Ah.  All the cases I've seen of cars calculating over 100% SoH have been this 6A version. In depth capacity testing on such cars revealed that they were over-estimating capacity slightly - for example one car had a LBC estimating 101.6% when it should have been 94.1%.  But this car had been used almost exclusively for open road driving for some time which is known to inflate the SoH slightly.  Another car which had more around town use but also with 6A firmware had the LBC estimating 94.4% and was measured at 95.5% - so pretty accurate.

 

The interesting part is that late 2016 or even 2017 cars may have either US or Japanese modules with their appropriate firmware - there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which one it will have and this applies to both UK and Japanese made cars. We've even seen mid 2017 cars (just before production of the 30kWh stopped) with the 4B firmware. 

 

The short answer is that the 30kWh cars reading above 100% SoH are probably the 6A variant and are likely over-reporting capacity slightly based on previous driving/charging habits.  


240 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2188779 28-Feb-2019 13:01
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Thank you for an excellent answer that puts things into a clearer light, for me at least. 


437 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2188882 28-Feb-2019 14:31
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EVsEnhanced:

 

In depth capacity testing on such cars revealed that they were over-estimating capacity slightly - for example one car had a LBC estimating 101.6% when it should have been 94.1%.  But this car had been used almost exclusively for open road driving for some time which is known to inflate the SoH slightly.  Another car which had more around town use but also with 6A firmware had the LBC estimating 94.4% and was measured at 95.5% - so pretty accurate.

 

 

How do you measure the true SOH if not relying on the reported data from BMS? 


5361 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2188902 28-Feb-2019 15:12
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Delphinus:

 

EVsEnhanced:

 

In depth capacity testing on such cars revealed that they were over-estimating capacity slightly - for example one car had a LBC estimating 101.6% when it should have been 94.1%.  But this car had been used almost exclusively for open road driving for some time which is known to inflate the SoH slightly.  Another car which had more around town use but also with 6A firmware had the LBC estimating 94.4% and was measured at 95.5% - so pretty accurate.

 

 

How do you measure the true SOH if not relying on the reported data from BMS? 

 

 

 

 

Charge it to 100% and put it on a dyno to run it till it stops.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


1202 posts

Uber Geek


  #2188905 28-Feb-2019 15:18
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The only scientific way is to remove the batteries and cycle them on a calibrated battery discharge machine.

 

Dyno's introduces lots of variables and can't be accurately accounted for and are little better than driving down the road.


 
 
 
 


18 posts

Geek


  #2189024 28-Feb-2019 18:17
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tripper1000:

 

The only scientific way is to remove the batteries and cycle them on a calibrated battery discharge machine.

 

Dyno's introduces lots of variables and can't be accurately accounted for and are little better than driving down the road.

 

 

 

 

While complete pack removal and a calibrated battery discharge machine would have been nice, keep in mind that this testing was done free of charge to help us all get a better understanding of what was going on with the 30kWh Leafs back some time ago.  That being said, the use of a dyno in our methodology didn't introduce significant error.  The dyno was not used for measurement at all, only as a variable load to maintain a constant current discharge at C/3 which was measured using a calibrated current sensor inserted into the car using one of these:

 

http://evsenhanced.com/products/leaf-battery-capacity-test-loop/

 

While in theory this could be used on the road, the setup on the dyno is much more accurate than you could ever achieve on the road as it would be extremely difficult to find any piece or road or test track where you could maintain an almost perfect constant current discharge for 2-3 hours.  

 

Getting the battery correctly prepared before the test and at the target battery temperature was the hardest part.

 

 


1202 posts

Uber Geek


  #2190539 4-Mar-2019 09:29
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EVsEnhanced:  The dyno was not used for measurement at all, only as a variable load to maintain a constant current discharge at C/3 which was measured using a calibrated current sensor inserted into the car using one of these:

 

That is very smart. Where the electrical energy gets dumped to isn't important, what is important is precisely how much electrical energy is dumped. Piece of mind for people that you are not dismantling their cars and potentially damaging stuff. 


4595 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2190549 4-Mar-2019 09:50
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Reversing camera not working - any ideas?

 

I went to drive our Leaf this morning and found the reversing camera had stopped working. The distance/angle guides are still present, but the camera feed is blank (ie, the screen other than the guide is completely black).

 

Has anyone experienced this problem before or can advise what I could do myself to sort it out? I'm assuming the likely culprit is a loose connection somewhere; or could it be a fuse?

 

Not being a Mr Fixit I don't possess the skills for anything other than checking some easily accessible spaces! If I don't have any luck is my best port of call an auto electrician?

 

Thanks for any advice.


4641 posts

Uber Geek


  #2193664 8-Mar-2019 15:39
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NZ Leaf prices to be set in the "later this month"  . Aust price has been set at $50K with only one high spec model

 

As they speculate mid to late 50s looks like the landing zone for NZ ..  (There is a 5% GST difference + about the same in currency)- but there is also the IONIQ sitting at 59K- although having the Pro pilot included is probably a good sales point..)

 

 

 

The price for Nissan’s new-generation Leaf has been set at $49,990 for those living in the West Island and will be available in one high-spec grade.

 

 

Nissan NZ says it’s still to sign off on local pricing, but it should be rubber stamped later in the month. We can expect Leaf to arrive here officially in July slash August, and like Oz, just one high-spec model will be offered.

 

We’ve already put the electric hatchback through its paces here and it seems Louisson quite liked it. Thanks to fast-charging capability, it takes roughly twenty minutes to replenish the pack from 50 per cent to 85 per cent, or from roughly 100 to 200km of range. Maximum range is rated at around 270km from a 40kWh battery. Rumour has it a 60kWh battery is in the works to let Leaf better compete against the likes of the Hyundai Kona Electric.

 

Motor power in the new gen Leaf is up from 80kW to 110kW and torque from 250Nm to 320Nm, meaning the 0-100 run is done in 8.1sec.

 

The range topping Tekna gets ProPilot technology, offering lane centring, active cruise and self parking where you essentially do nothing except hold down the Park button (for both parallel and bay parking). The car does the rest automatically. Given the cost in Australia, his guess of “late 50s” here could be on the money. We’ll have to wait until later this month to see.

 

 

https://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/nissan-leaf-pricing-announced

 

 


4445 posts

Uber Geek


  #2193925 8-Mar-2019 20:00
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On Trademe, 2015 Nissan Leafs seem to be dipping into the low $17,000 mark.

Is there anything to watch out for?

Here's an example (I'm not associated the dealer, don't live in the area)

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1832251763.htm

4595 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2193939 8-Mar-2019 20:35
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kingdragonfly: On Trademe, 2015 Nissan Leafs seem to be dipping into the low $17,000 mark.

Is there anything to watch out for?

Here's an example (I'm not associated the dealer, don't live in the area)

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1832251763.htm

 

That car's already at 10/12 bars @ only 34k km, so its range will already have dropped a meaningful amount; it's also an "S" spec car, which is the lowest of the three grades from this model. An advantage is that the stereo can be easily upgraded, but it also means it lacks other valuable features like a heat-pump heater. While it has alloys, the listing doesn't indicate anything else significant such as a full complement of airbags.

 

I gave up looking at Leafs on TM after we bought ours about 14 months ago, but based on my prior knowledge I'd not have thought this was a particularly good-value proposition (unless prices have gone way up over what we paid for ours).

 

This is a good site for an idea of what to expect with different-spec Leafs:

 

https://samholford.github.io/leafguide/

 

 


2049 posts

Uber Geek


  #2195681 11-Mar-2019 10:45
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jonathan18:

 

I gave up looking at Leafs on TM after we bought ours about 14 months ago, but based on my prior knowledge I'd not have thought this was a particularly good-value proposition (unless prices have gone way up over what we paid for ours).

 

 

They somewhat have; they certainly aren't getting any cheaper at the lower end. 


gzt

11440 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2195796 11-Mar-2019 13:04
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Agree average looks higher, imo volume has increased. On the plus side for buyers looks like some dealers at least have overstocked a bit.

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