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760 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2339847 17-Oct-2019 15:27
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Guilliman: I just ran through some numbers I have to see how much of a difference there has been in running costs, focusing on petrol/electricity only. My previous car was a 2008 Toyota Blade 2.4L. From what I could see it appears to me that the highest fuel economy is 13.4km/L. I've been able to nudge the Leaf up to 8.1km/kWH for my average weekly commutes. Odo was 19000km when I bought it which I will assume is legit, as of my log today in the morning before takeoff it was 51426km. So I worked out I've added 32426km. At the extant efficiency that seems to be around 4003.21kWH used to date to charge. If I use our current home rate of 26.76c/kWH that seems to be a spend of $1071.26 to date. If I instead go with my current EV off-peak rate through Mercury of 5.352c/kWH that would be $214.25. I don't remember that I requested the EV package from Mercury straight away so the value would be somewhere in between. This also doesn't account for the four long trips I've taken with multiple ChargeNet top ups. Using the 13.4km/L I worked out I would have used 2419.85L over the same period and overall distance travelled. If I go with the AA average petrol price in Jan 19 of $2.149/L that appears to work out at $5200.26. There's probably some things I've missed and certainly fluctuating petrol prices could affect things [plus I tended to use 98 in my Blade] but I thought I could get at least some kind of idea of the difference. Clearly any gains went towards paying off the car [worked out my own financing with a relative] but it's still good to have them.

 

Also, you have avoided the money & environmental costs of changing your engine oil & filter at least once a year, and because of regenerative braking, extended the life of your disk pads by a significant amount relative to an ICE vehicle.

 

It all adds up


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  #2339859 17-Oct-2019 15:52
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32426km is also worth ~$2300 in RUC, 

 

Doesn't apply now,

 

Buts its gonna hurt a lot of EVers if the govt does actual return it as they are promising in 2021...

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  #2339884 17-Oct-2019 16:52
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My previous car was a 2008 Toyota Blade 2.4L.

 

What did it cost for regular servicing like oil & filter changes.


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Master Geek


  #2340162 18-Oct-2019 14:40
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I should have some info on that at home in my records, will have to see what I have there.



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  #2341115 20-Oct-2019 20:10
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wellygary:

 

32426km is also worth ~$2300 in RUC, 

 

Doesn't apply now,

 

Buts its gonna hurt a lot of EVers if the govt does actual return it as they are promising in 2021...

 

 

It's actually Jan1 2022. But also after the next election. Also JAG has said the EV RUC rate would be lower.......but it's all pie in the sky at the moment. The only thing that could see things go badly wrong is if a different government came to power.....one that denies climate change at worst and won't lift a finger about it, at best. 





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  #2341136 20-Oct-2019 21:31
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EV's should be paying RUC now. The free RUC ride is only benefiting those that can afford to pay RUC. Whether not not I had to pay RUC wouldn't be a consideration as to whether or not I bought and EV. I'm already effectively paying RUC with my current motor vehicle.

 

I earn appreciably above the median income and could easily afford to pay RUC but I cannot afford to buy an EV that would suit my needs yet I can afford the equivalent ICE. I cannot see how the free RUC ride makes any worthwhile difference to the number of EV's sold.

 

EV's still create the same wear and tear on the roads as an ICE and should be paying their way now.





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  #2341163 21-Oct-2019 07:29
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Technofreak:

 

I cannot see how the free RUC ride makes any worthwhile difference to the number of EV's sold.

 

 

 

 

And that's one reason why the RUC exemption is going away. The National government tried a range of things to see what might encourage EV uptake - everything short of feebates - and the RUC exemption was one of them. No EV owner I know of decided to buy an EV because of the RUC exemption.

 

 

 

 

EV's still create the same wear and tear on the roads as an ICE and should be paying their way now.

 

 

 

 

True. However you can also consider road taxes for ICE vehicles as at least partly a carbon tax, and therefore the RUC for an EV should be lower than a fossil-burner of the same weight class.





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  #2341172 21-Oct-2019 08:14
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SaltyNZ:

 

Technofreak:

 

I cannot see how the free RUC ride makes any worthwhile difference to the number of EV's sold.

 

 

 

 

And that's one reason why the RUC exemption is going away. The National government tried a range of things to see what might encourage EV uptake - everything short of feebates - and the RUC exemption was one of them. No EV owner I know of decided to buy an EV because of the RUC exemption.

 

 

 

 

(Referring to bolded and underlined above) I did, well partly (a big part) at least. We were going to hold off buying an EV for a couple of years, but the spectre of RUC coming in for EV's in 2021 made us jump early to get a few years of RUC free driving.

 

I'm sure if you were to ask, plenty of people would say they decided on an EV because they are cheap to run, and one of the big factors in making that happen is no RUC.

 

I can't see how avoiding paying $7.20 per 100km (the current RUC rate for light vehicles - ie under 3.5 tonnes) wouldn't impact on people's buying decisions.


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  #2341186 21-Oct-2019 08:56
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Yeah, I do think one has to be careful underestimating the impact of the RUC exemption.

 

Not necessarily that potential EV buyers have actively thought "yay, I don't have to pay RUCs", but more that if the exemption hadn't been there there'd be greater publicity and knowledge of the need to pay them so that would have been "damn, I have to factor in the cost of RUCs".

 

The clear impression that the public gets in regards to EV ownership is that they're damn cheap to run - cheap power offers from some power retailers, free charging in many locations, very low maintenance costs... If the exemption hadn't been in place, that would have certainly been one key point countering this narrative. Assuming 10,000 km travelled in a year, it would be pretty hard to pretend that the extra cost of $720 didn't exist.

 

What is the latest news on whether the government has any intention to revise the RUC rate that EVs would otherwise be charged once the exemption expires? I've always found it bizarre that my diesel Mazda 6 pays the same RUCs as a small truck weighing 3.5 tonnes; the idea that we'll pay the same for my wife's Leaf is even weirder.

 

 


409 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2341192 21-Oct-2019 09:33
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Linuxluver:

 

It's actually Jan1 2022. But also after the next election. Also JAG has said the EV RUC rate would be lower.......but it's all pie in the sky at the moment. The only thing that could see things go badly wrong is if a different government came to power.....one that denies climate change at worst and won't lift a finger about it, at best. 

 

 

 

 

You appear to have a hatred for National.  National introduced a public service fleet target for EV's, Labour and the Greens cancelled that plan, why do you think National is the issue?


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  #2341207 21-Oct-2019 09:45
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Linuxluver:

 

It's actually Jan1 2022. But also after the next election. Also JAG has said the EV RUC rate would be lower.......

 

 

Have you got a link for that quote,

 

Because there is certainly no mention of lower EV RUCs in either the Feebate or low emission consultation papers, nor in any of the advice to ministers that have been published...


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  #2341213 21-Oct-2019 09:54
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jonathan18:

 

Not necessarily that potential EV buyers have actively thought "yay, I don't have to pay RUCs",

 

 

 

 

That was mainly what I was getting at. Not having to pay RUCs temporarily was a nice bonus, but it was not a case of "I hate paying taxes so I will buy an EV to stick it to The Man."





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


1203 posts

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  #2341307 21-Oct-2019 12:13
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Yes, the roads are not free and have to be paid for so eventually EV's must pay their fair share of road tax.

 

"Only rich people can afford EV therefore should also pay RUC" arguments is cutting off you nose despite you face and that attitude leads to lots of counterproductive outcomes.

 

"Rich" peoples trade-in's become poor peoples affordable cars. Someone has to "make" affordable cars - that someone is "Rich" people. If you discourage "Rich" people from buying EV's there will NEVER be affordable EV's for the poor people. Further more, if you believe in the causes of climate change it is clear that climate change will impact the "poor" far more than the "rich", so if you encourage "rich" to drive gas-guzzlers it is the "poor" who will pay the highest price. 

 

So in this case, it is clear to anyone who has any economic (or climate) sense that what is good for "Rich" people is good for poor people. We shouldn't let impatience or impulsive jealously cloud our vision. 


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  #2341314 21-Oct-2019 12:24
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This kind of argument ignores the fact that the bulk of our EV fleet came from second-hand Leafs that other people in other countries bought and we imported as used vehicles. It's not like the choice is black and white "Either help well-heeled people buy new EVs or you'll have a used EV market at all". 


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  #2341352 21-Oct-2019 13:24
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Just an FYI incase no one has done this:

 

We popped by Lower Hutt Nissan to get some new Wiper Blades for our 2012 Leaf, the Parts guy said they don't come as rubber only so had to buy the whole clip-on part, 2 blades cost $56

 

Huge difference having good rubber on the screen!


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