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69 posts

Master Geek


  #2415663 10-Feb-2020 18:04
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Yeah we're +10% over as well.  I think it's ridiculous, I have to guess how close to the speed limit I'm actually going etc etc.

 

Has anyone found a way to adjust it?  I found the secret menu and adjusted -2.5% but it had no effect, and google translate tells me it's a distance-related setting.


4596 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2415686 10-Feb-2020 19:46
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Yeah, it’s way more out on the Leaf than most other cars, but one does get used to it. I just know, for example, that 55 is 50 and 110 is 100. 

My theory is that it’s the key reason why Leaf drivers have a bad rep for driving under the limit, especially on the open road!


 
 
 
 


69 posts

Master Geek


  #2415694 10-Feb-2020 19:57
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jonathan18:

 

My theory is that it’s the key reason why Leaf drivers have a bad rep for driving under the limit, especially on the open road!

 

 

I was thinking that today!  And I did notice that a lot of leaf drivers go 90 in the slow lane before I bought mine.  I just assumed they were trying to max their trees ;)


gzt

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  #2415699 10-Feb-2020 20:04
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As the post about the Mazda Avensis on previous page close to10% is common to many vehicles. Ime most vehicles are close to 5%. It's mostly normal.

935 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2415735 10-Feb-2020 21:22
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wellygary:

 

We've got an Avensis that is a good 10% fast,  but what is most interesting is that the trip computer knows what the real speed is...

 

You can stick it in cruise control , set it at 110km ( according to the speedo) and then reset the "average trip speed" .. after a few moments it pops up with the new reading for the "average trip speed" and its 100km ... so It knows the speedo is lying,

 

--- Its a plot I tell you :)

 

 

Yeah, it is quite deliberate from automakers.

My car does the same, dash reads about 7% high, but if you plug in a scantool, the speed on the scantool is about accurate (assume that means the odometer is fairly accurate too).

European Standards as an example require car's speedo's to indicated speed of the vehicle to be between its actual speed, and 10% greater than its actual speed +4km/h.

With modern tech automakers could easily have the indicated speed within true say 2% over the actual speed, yet they don't. Even better accuracy could be had if the car was set up to calibrate the reported speed again data from the cars GPS, allowing the system to compensate for manufacturing tolerance in tire diameter, tread wear, tire inflation etc.

Yet they don't, because having a car under-report speed gives a lot of advantages to the automaker, as it typically results in the car being driven slightly slower.

 

If a car is unknowingly driven slightly slower than the driver thinks they are going:

 

  • The car interior will be quieter
  • The ride will be smoother
  • The car will seem to have better acceleration (takes less time to accelerate to 100km/h indicated)
  • The stopping distance of the car will be shorter
  • The car will burn less fuel, making is seem more economical. (Aerodynamic drag has a exponent in it, so a slight slowing of open road speed can make a significant difference)  
  • The car will paper to have a longer range (liked with the above)
  • The driver will get less speeding tickets (in the even that they sometimes let their indicated speed exceed the posted limit.

A bunch of these are really good on a test drive. If a driver test drove a car that did 90km/h and 100 indicated, then test drove one with an accurate speedo, the first car would likely seem significantly quieter at 100 indicated, with may sway a driver's decision that way.

 

Personally I would rather have accurate info.


1113 posts

Uber Geek


  #2415736 10-Feb-2020 21:31
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wellygary:

 

kelly42:

 

> Not sure about anyone else but my leaf also reads very low on the speedometer - 107 is actually 100 in mine.

 

Mine too! I have a new-to-me 2016 Leaf with 85% SOH and I've just found that my speedo reads 10% higher than my speed on Google Maps. I've seen Maps be accurate in other cars so I'm sure it's the Leaf. I was about to check out the tyres to make sure they're the right size. Bit disconcerting but my lead foot enjoys being able to go 110 on the motorway.

 

 

 

 

A 10% overread on your speedo is pretty much standard on many cars these days,

 

(There's a UN mandate that speedos should not read under and regulates how much over read there is)...

 

Its designed to make you drive slower.

 

 

I don't think that's very safe in the New Zealand context. I was stuck behind a RAV4 traveling 12km/h under the limit for a prolonged period of time yesterday. When that driver goes behind the wheel of a car with a more accurate speedo they're going to take the same corner 10km/h faster and potentially spin out or flip the car. Having more inconsistency and slow drivers causing hold ups encourages more overtaking which many drivers are incapable of doing safely on New Zealand's highways. It's better for speedos to be calibrated to be accurate and speed limits to make sense, neither of which are the case in New Zealand. 

 

Nissan should've done more to make the Leaf aerodynamic so it could manage high way speeds without manipulating the driver into driving under the speed limit to reduce drag. 


gzt

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  #2415745 10-Feb-2020 22:11
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bfginger: Nissan should've done more to make the Leaf aerodynamic so it could manage high way speeds without manipulating the driver into driving under the speed limit to reduce drag.

As previously evidenced this is a thing with a lot of cars and different brands.

There is nothing at all wrong with the Leaf at highway speeds. You are overstating your case and forgetting this speedo thing applies to many vehicles.

I suggest you measure your own vehicle at 100kph if you can do so safely.

 
 
 
 


2601 posts

Uber Geek


  #2415751 10-Feb-2020 22:40
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10% is standard for all Leafs (on the Leaf FB page anyway)

Leaf is highly aerodynamic... even having an underplays for the pan!
Works very well at all (legal) speeds and 10% makes it easy to translate to ‘real’ speed too... just add the tens digit to the units and get your ‘true’ speed.

Eg 76kms/h becomes 83 (76+the 7 from 70 =83 ;)

1202 posts

Uber Geek


  #2416016 11-Feb-2020 11:06
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There is no conspiracy here - sort of. There are international standards that define required speedo performance. Cars in N.Z. are required to comply with one of several standards. Most standards prohibit speedo's to indicate slower than the car is travelling, and in some cases mandate it to read higher than the cars true speed. So all manufactures calibrate the speedo's to be optimistic. 

 

The UN has stuck their oar in with UNECE Regulation No. 39/00 which mandates speedos are 4 kph optimistic.

 

Para 5.3 states:

 

The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the test speeds specified
in paragraph 5.2.5 above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V1)
and the true speed (V2).
0 ≤ (V1 – V2) ≤ 0,1 V2 + 4 km/h

 

In the case of the Leaf, it is at the outer limits of over-reading, which may be a ploy by Nissan to trick drivers into going slower. The Leaf is certainly the worst vehicle for this that I have ever owned or driven. 


1202 posts

Uber Geek


  #2416203 11-Feb-2020 14:11
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Elliemay:
  
My feeling is B mode tends to use more because there is no coasting. Less micro-regeneration moments during normal travel.

 

If you are worried about B mode 'slowing' you down too much just don't take your foot off the accelerator pedal so much. Doing that achieves the same as driving in D, with the added benefit of more rapid stopping, and regen, when required. 

 

Coasting is more efficient than Regen which is more efficient than friction brakes, which is more efficient than crashing. You can not coast all the time. 

 

But yes, in B mode, you can instantly switch between coasting or regen as the conditions allow it.

 

D mode is only more efficient for people with a digital right foot (full on/full off). 


69 posts

Master Geek


  #2416212 11-Feb-2020 14:23
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tripper1000:

 

D mode is only more efficient for people with a digital right foot (full on/full off). 

 

 

I feel seen


935 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2416236 11-Feb-2020 14:59
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tripper1000:

 

There is no conspiracy here - sort of. There are international standards that define required speedo performance. Cars in N.Z. are required to comply with one of several standards. Most standards prohibit speedo's to indicate slower than the car is travelling, and in some cases mandate it to read higher than the cars true speed. So all manufactures calibrate the speedo's to be optimistic. 

 

The UN has stuck their oar in with UNECE Regulation No. 39/00 which mandates speedos are 4 kph optimistic.

 

Para 5.3 states:

 

The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the test speeds specified
in paragraph 5.2.5 above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V1)
and the true speed (V2).
0 ≤ (V1 – V2) ≤ 0,1 V2 + 4 km/h

 

In the case of the Leaf, it is at the outer limits of over-reading, which may be a ploy by Nissan to trick drivers into going slower. The Leaf is certainly the worst vehicle for this that I have ever owned or driven. 

 



"The UN has stuck their oar in with UNECE Regulation No. 39/00 which mandates speedos are 4 kph optimistic."

That's not what the equation you provided says. It allows indicated speed to be anywhere from actual speed, to 10%+4km/h higher than actual speed.

 

It appears auto makers are targeting the middle to upper end of the allowable band of indicated speeds.


273 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2416241 11-Feb-2020 15:24
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tripper1000:

 

Elliemay:
  
My feeling is B mode tends to use more because there is no coasting. Less micro-regeneration moments during normal travel.

 

If you are worried about B mode 'slowing' you down too much just don't take your foot off the accelerator pedal so much. Doing that achieves the same as driving in D, with the added benefit of more rapid stopping, and regen, when required. 

 

Coasting is more efficient than Regen which is more efficient than friction brakes, which is more efficient than crashing. You can not coast all the time. 

 

But yes, in B mode, you can instantly switch between coasting or regen as the conditions allow it.

 

D mode is only more efficient for people with a digital right foot (full on/full off). 

 

 

I gotta disgree that this is an absolute - driving on flat/gentle roads you can end up spending a lot more time on the throttle in B mode. I consider myself to have pretty good throttle control but on my regular commute D mode has proven to be more efficient (only slightly). I imagine a different story on a hilly route, or a different driver. 

 

Some ultra-mile geek somewhere would have tested this on a dyno with programmed throttle use....would be curious to know the results, might go do some reading. 


14 posts

Geek


  #2428627 28-Feb-2020 09:38
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Hi everyone,

 

I am a newbie to general EV transport. I have posted this yesterday in new topic but was advised to move it here to get more replies on my question. Sorry if there is some similar discussion within the 200+ pages of this thread as I need for urgent action and literally have no time to search for it manually right now.

 

Recently, on Feb 10, I have got Nissan Leaf X 2013  ( aze0-058076 ) from 2CheapCars with 11 bars (it was highlighted by seller as "very high") and 77.92% SoH according to LeafSpy report kindly posted by seller in the classified. It was a bit suspicious for the car low mileage - around 37,000 km, especially number of charges (about 3200). However, overall car condition was pretty good thus I decide to by it.

 

Most weird thing is - battery have got 1550 QCs and 1700 L1/L2. It means that car was on charger every 11 km in average. It wouldn't be so strange in case of 3000 of L1/L2 only as it is understandable if some meticulous user plug charger in every time upon arrival home. But 1550 QCs... Why? What reason? Did he/she charge EV on a rapid charger near his/her office every day? Who is doing the same? Please reply if you doing so just to estimate probability of such a user behavior.

 

With that doubt in mind I decide to take the car, but I told to the office admin about this concern and she ensure me that if SoH will drop rapidly in first few weeks than I may want come back.

 

During last two weeks I made about 1000 km and unfortunately lost one bar. Yesterday (Feb26) I have got opportunity to get another LeafSpy check and found that SoH dropped to 72.59%. After another 170 km trip I have got one more check today (Feb27) and found that SoH became a bit less - 72.53%.

 

BTW, I did not get consent for outlet installation in a garage yet that's why I am charging my car on the rapid chargers. If Japanese seller did inflate showings by mean of rapid charger it's not gonna deflate so far (according to auction list and ODO showings car have done less then 100km in NZ prior to my purchase). And probably battery statistics will look worse after I will get my power outlet ready.

 

Other parameters such as AHr and Hx are also got lower.

 

 

 

Seller report / My report on Feb26 / My report Feb27

 

AHr  50.96   /           47.47           /         47.43

 

SoH  77.92  /           72.59           /          72.53

 

Hx    70.83  /           64.52           /          64.45

 

ODO 36,478 /          37,649          /          37.820

 

 

 

As I mentioned I have got an auction list - ODO showings match. Thus I rather guess it's about battery swap, controller reset and following partial calibration then about wound backed ODO.

 

I have paid about $13,500 for the car and now regret about this purchase.

 

 

 

My question to experienced local owners of Leaf: could you advise what may be good choice in my case - to try to return the car back to 2CheapCars or rather discuss significant discount (2-3 grand)?

 

Any relevant suggestions are welcome!

 

 

 

Click to see full size Click to see full size Click to see full size

 

 


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