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Cybnate
63 posts

Master Geek


  #2712982 25-May-2021 19:58
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MarkH67:

 

I wonder if there is any evidence that the lack of thermal management is the reason behind the Leaf's 23% battery degradation vs a Tesla's 10% over 10 years? 

 


It would be good to see some stats on that. And I agree with the use case of it being a commuter car. I doubt whether a Tesla is better value for money that the Leaf or does better than the Leaf battery without thermal management in NZ looking at battery degradation comparing a similar size of battery and similar charging patterns (e.g. with 64 kWH Leaf). The Teslas look nice though, I got to give them tha, but do have another price bracket.

 

Only time I'm missing active thermal management is indeed on those odd long trips on a hot (25C+) Summer day quick charging more than 2 times on the same day.


 
 
 

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John225
6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2713843 27-May-2021 15:11
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If the ideal state of charge to avoid calendar based deterioration of the battery was around 65% (3.92v/cell) and the use pattern of the car is highly predictable like a regular work commute it should be possible to design a charging regimen that would keep the battery in that state for the majority of the time by splitting the charge to two charges one just after arriving home from work (to 65%) and one before departing for work. This assumes no charging at work and the entire commute is achieved without needing to charge.


goweed
15 posts

Geek


  #2718682 5-Jun-2021 14:41
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duckInferno:

 

Tbh if I were buying an EV today I'd import it.

 

You can get a low km grade 5 G spec e+ (62 kWh + better motor) for approx $41k imported through an NZ company.

 

The fact that it's an EV (and a recent year) minimises the risk of importing a lemon or low SOH if you buy blind, though as I understand it there are companies in Japan that will also inspect on your behalf, presumably they can check SOH.

 

 

Just about to import a 2016/30Kw myself but struggling to find an action agent that can provide leaf spy reports. Do you know of any?




mrhaboobi
159 posts

Master Geek


  #2718745 5-Jun-2021 18:53
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Wondering if anyone has had the head unit in a 2016 30KW G spec converted to english and also added apple car play and maps?  Have seen xanavi provides this options ( loss of timers )  but not sure if anyone is doing this in nz?  anyone?


Scott3
3374 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2718764 5-Jun-2021 20:33
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duckInferno:

 

Tbh if I were buying an EV today I'd import it.

 

You can get a low km grade 5 G spec e+ (62 kWh + better motor) for approx $41k imported through an NZ company.

 

The fact that it's an EV (and a recent year) minimises the risk of importing a lemon or low SOH if you buy blind, though as I understand it there are companies in Japan that will also inspect on your behalf, presumably they can check SOH.

 

 

Prices may have changed singe your post, but that care is now listed at 2.9m yen FOB. Convert to NZD & add GST and that is $42k. Still need to pay your agent, ship the car to NZ, pay customs fee's, compliance, WOF etc...

 

Carwebs gives fairly good historical data on prices out of auctions from japan. e+ cars over the last couple of months seem to be selling for 2.5 - 2.9m yen. Equates to $43,438 to $49,500 (+ $250 rego) landed in NZ.

 

For comparison the cheapest E+ in stock on trade me is $51,555. (that a high spec 2020 so would be towards the top of that price range), and that has extras that would around the $1000 mark (English conversion, NZ three pin charge cable) 

Supply of E+ leaf's at the auctions in japan seems pretty sparse at the moment. Only one listed currently. And only 12 of the ZE1 (2nd generation / current body shape) leaf's.

 

If you can find what you want at the auctions go for it, Might save a few thousand vs trademe, but unlikely to save $10k. Also note that the import process isn't risk free. I of a person that imported a modern BMW from the UK which failed compliance due to a large amount of silt behind wheel arch liners indicating flood damage. With car's from japan common issues (which can be checked if you are on to it) are: - only 1 key. SD card missing, snow tires.


mrhaboobi
159 posts

Master Geek


  #2720228 7-Jun-2021 14:59
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HI

 

Have been reading up about the Nissan 200V 15Amp chargers which had been used in NZ by changing the plug to a 15Amp plug and of course having the correct 15Amp wall socket and RCD.

 

I read in early posts of problems, but believe the recent charges have been opened and confirmed they are over spec'd and actually will support 230V?

 

Can anyone confirm and what is your experience with these units.  Im looking to put in a 15amp circuit so believe one of these units might be appropriate.  I cant afford the 1800 for a dedicated charge station, this seems to be a good middle ground above the 8amp charges we get by default in NZ with second hand leaf sales

 

 

 

thanks

 

 


nutbugs
263 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2720300 7-Jun-2021 17:11
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mrhaboobi:

Wondering if anyone has had the head unit in a 2016 30KW G spec converted to english and also added apple car play and maps?  Have seen xanavi provides this options ( loss of timers )  but not sure if anyone is doing this in nz?  anyone?



I did ours via a download and sd card from Scott Wotton, search for him of the Leaf Facebook groups.
Overall really happy with it, carplay and android auto are a huge bonus and get a lot of use.
It includes nz maps but k prefer to use android auto usually.
NZ radio and GPS and clocks all work as they should.
The one thing I do miss is the climate control timer for frosty mornings, that wod device my windscreen and have the cabin nice and cosy at the time I wanted. In theory the timers are on the list to be added back in, but who knows!



Scott3
3374 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2720319 7-Jun-2021 18:10
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mrhaboobi:

 

HI

 

Have been reading up about the Nissan 200V 15Amp chargers which had been used in NZ by changing the plug to a 15Amp plug and of course having the correct 15Amp wall socket and RCD.

 

I read in early posts of problems, but believe the recent charges have been opened and confirmed they are over spec'd and actually will support 230V?

 

Can anyone confirm and what is your experience with these units.  Im looking to put in a 15amp circuit so believe one of these units might be appropriate.  I cant afford the 1800 for a dedicated charge station, this seems to be a good middle ground above the 8amp charges we get by default in NZ with second hand leaf sales

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly don't do 15A. This was the go to in the very early days of imported leaf's. Turns out (depute being rated at 16A continuous), they have a habit of getting so hot they are a fire risk, blacken plastic etc.

 

The Blue 16A caravan plug's and sockets are relatively cheap and much more solid, both physically, and in their ability to actually preform to their rating. Also it means you can charge at campgrounds if that ever appeals.

 

What you are propsing to do was widely done in the early days, but is a bit naughty. Because it isn't rated for 230v power it is technically an unsafe piece of electrical equipment. Some people put quite a bit of effort into finding a pathway to modify, and certify these for NZ use, but never cracked it. Kinda sad because the Panasonic EVSE that comes with the japan leaf's is a serious piece of quality equipment. in quite a differ class to the cheap 8A unit I charge my car with.

 

Apparently the ZE0 Leaf's (1st gen pre mid cycle refresh) had EVSE's that would fail after some time on 230v. People were preemptively opening them up and swapping out a little transformer inside them for one correctly rated for 230v.

 

If I recall correctly the ones on the AZE0 Leaf (1st gen post mid cycle refresh), were sealed, and didn't fail on 230v like the other ones.

 

 

 

Note Japan plug has a thermisistor inside it. Either you need to smash apart to molded plug to retain this, or spoof it with a resistor.

 

And note that these days 16A IP rated charge cables that are actually approved for use in NZ are readily available and start from around $600.


mrhaboobi
159 posts

Master Geek


  #2720830 8-Jun-2021 17:11
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Scott3:

 

Firstly don't do 15A. This was the go to in the very early days of imported leaf's. Turns out (depute being rated at 16A continuous), they have a habit of getting so hot they are a fire risk, blacken plastic etc.

 

The Blue 16A caravan plug's and sockets are relatively cheap and much more solid, both physically, and in their ability to actually preform to their rating. Also it means you can charge at campgrounds if that ever appeals.

 

What you are propsing to do was widely done in the early days, but is a bit naughty. Because it isn't rated for 230v power it is technically an unsafe piece of electrical equipment. Some people put quite a bit of effort into finding a pathway to modify, and certify these for NZ use, but never cracked it. Kinda sad because the Panasonic EVSE that comes with the japan leaf's is a serious piece of quality equipment. in quite a differ class to the cheap 8A unit I charge my car with.

 

Apparently the ZE0 Leaf's (1st gen pre mid cycle refresh) had EVSE's that would fail after some time on 230v. People were preemptively opening them up and swapping out a little transformer inside them for one correctly rated for 230v.

 

 

Interesting comment on the 15A heat issues, are you talking about the wall socket or the power pack itself overheating? and was that mainly an issue with the Gen 1 ( square pack ) or the gen 2 ( longer rectangular pack )

 

What i was told is that the second gen power pack was actually labelled as 200V 15Amp, but that is was over spec'd internally so therefore was suitable as a 230V pack.  Infact I believe some companies went at far as to relabel the packs to have a 230V compatible sticker applied? Potentially this information is incorrect.  i was also told the gen 1 packs did overheat and have issues as you describe as they were not overspec'd

 

I was also told that a 16Amp caravan plug wasn't designed for continuous use due to over heating aswell.  Huh.. funny how you get different information from different people...

 

Yes i could spend 600 on a new pack :)  but im trying to reuse something i potentially have access to for significantly less IF its safe to do so.

 

Cheers

 

 


goweed
15 posts

Geek


  #2720836 8-Jun-2021 17:25
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mrhaboobi:

 

Scott3:

 

Firstly don't do 15A. This was the go to in the very early days of imported leaf's. Turns out (depute being rated at 16A continuous), they have a habit of getting so hot they are a fire risk, blacken plastic etc.

 

The Blue 16A caravan plug's and sockets are relatively cheap and much more solid, both physically, and in their ability to actually preform to their rating. Also it means you can charge at campgrounds if that ever appeals.

 

What you are propsing to do was widely done in the early days, but is a bit naughty. Because it isn't rated for 230v power it is technically an unsafe piece of electrical equipment. Some people put quite a bit of effort into finding a pathway to modify, and certify these for NZ use, but never cracked it. Kinda sad because the Panasonic EVSE that comes with the japan leaf's is a serious piece of quality equipment. in quite a differ class to the cheap 8A unit I charge my car with.

 

Apparently the ZE0 Leaf's (1st gen pre mid cycle refresh) had EVSE's that would fail after some time on 230v. People were preemptively opening them up and swapping out a little transformer inside them for one correctly rated for 230v.

 

 

Interesting comment on the 15A heat issues, are you talking about the wall socket or the power pack itself overheating? and was that mainly an issue with the Gen 1 ( square pack ) or the gen 2 ( longer rectangular pack )

 

What i was told is that the second gen power pack was actually labelled as 200V 15Amp, but that is was over spec'd internally so therefore was suitable as a 230V pack.  Infact I believe some companies went at far as to relabel the packs to have a 230V compatible sticker applied? Potentially this information is incorrect.  i was also told the gen 1 packs did overheat and have issues as you describe as they were not overspec'd

 

I was also told that a 16Amp caravan plug wasn't designed for continuous use due to over heating aswell.  Huh.. funny how you get different information from different people...

 

Yes i could spend 600 on a new pack :)  but im trying to reuse something i potentially have access to for significantly less IF its safe to do so.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe its do to with the MOV rating. See https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=190723


Scott3
3374 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2720908 8-Jun-2021 21:03
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mrhaboobi:

 

Interesting comment on the 15A heat issues, are you talking about the wall socket or the power pack itself overheating? and was that mainly an issue with the Gen 1 ( square pack ) or the gen 2 ( longer rectangular pack )

 

What i was told is that the second gen power pack was actually labelled as 200V 15Amp, but that is was over spec'd internally so therefore was suitable as a 230V pack.  Infact I believe some companies went at far as to relabel the packs to have a 230V compatible sticker applied? Potentially this information is incorrect.  i was also told the gen 1 packs did overheat and have issues as you describe as they were not overspec'd

 

I was also told that a 16Amp caravan plug wasn't designed for continuous use due to over heating aswell.  Huh.. funny how you get different information from different people...

 

Yes i could spend 600 on a new pack :)  but im trying to reuse something i potentially have access to for significantly less IF its safe to do so.

 

Cheers

 

 

The plug itself. Not my photo's, below, but two example's of the handful that went through various EV owners groups. Note that is a 15A plug, running a 15A load, so should be able to handle it. But for some reason failures like the below were common. Thankfully all that I know of either failed safe (melted / burnt to break the flow of current), of were noticed by uses prior to serious damage occurring. Obviously dicing with the chance of a house fire, so the 16A blue connector quickly became the go to for this application.

 

 

 

No photo description available.

 

No photo description available.

 

 

 

Everything I have heard about the 16A blue connector is that they hold up very well to this duty. Still would be many hundreds of people using this charging solution (most who brought cars before the industry worked out that it was illegal to supply them with the 200V rated EVSE's, and a handfull who imported their own cars and didn't want to fork out hundreds of dollars for an inferior EVSE to the Panasonic...

 

Very unlikely that the Brick in the cord would overheat. - Its basically only a bunch of communication electronics and relays to turn the power on and off. 

 

Haven't dug into the internals, but historically the ZE0 cars needed a transformer swapped, the AZE0 cars EVSE's would work fine unmodified internally.

 

If you have a Gen2 leaf (ZE1) - Just pony up for a wall box. - these cars typically have a 6.6kW onboard charger, so at least you get a lot extra charge speed for your extra money.

 

Note that in NZ historically the Post facelift Gen 1 car (AZE0) was often incorrectly refereed to as Gen2, causing all sorts of confusion when the actual Gen 2 (ZE1) leaf was released by nissan.

 

When you refer to "Over specked" be aware that there is a small transformer in the brick to provide power to the electronics & signals to the car. It's a transformer, not a switch mode power supply, so over-voltage in means over-voltage out. Still it was common knowledge that the AZE0 Panasonic EVSE's held up fine over time.

 

 

 

I get where you are coming from with not wanting to waste the high quality Panasonic EVSE.

 

I have one of the long brick Gen 1 AZE0 bricks in my garage. Initially intended to use it as our main charger, however a 8A cord out the kitchen window has served us fine for months, so hard to justify the cost of getting a sparky in to install a new circuit for a caravan outlet... Also kind thinking if I am spending the money I should do it properly and fork out for a legal 32A EVSE...

 

 


duckInferno
89 posts

Master Geek


  #2721016 9-Jun-2021 07:37
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I've got a 16A caravan socket install and a caravan to J EVSE.  The first EVSE I was sent failed and pulled too much current (18~) which eventually fused it to the caravan socket.  Its replacement doesn't go over 16A and has been going for over a year strong.

 

That said, if I had to do it again, I'd probably just stick with the standard 8A charger that comes with the car.  I can count the number of times that the double-speed charging has benefited me on one hand, and it cost several hundred times more to install the wiring etc than it would to sit at a charger for 15min for those handful of times.


duckInferno
89 posts

Master Geek


  #2721017 9-Jun-2021 07:55
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Scott3:

 

duckInferno:

 

You can get a low km grade 5 G spec e+ (62 kWh + better motor) for approx $41k imported through an NZ company.

 

 

Prices may have changed singe your post, but that care is now listed at 2.9m yen FOB. Convert to NZD & add GST and that is $42k. Still need to pay your agent, ship the car to NZ, pay customs fee's, compliance, WOF etc...

 

Carwebs gives fairly good historical data on prices out of auctions from japan. e+ cars over the last couple of months seem to be selling for 2.5 - 2.9m yen. Equates to $43,438 to $49,500 (+ $250 rego) landed in NZ.

 

For comparison the cheapest E+ in stock on trade me is $51,555. (that a high spec 2020 so would be towards the top of that price range), and that has extras that would around the $1000 mark (English conversion, NZ three pin charge cable) 

Supply of E+ leaf's at the auctions in japan seems pretty sparse at the moment. Only one listed currently. And only 12 of the ZE1 (2nd generation / current body shape) leaf's.

 

If you can find what you want at the auctions go for it, Might save a few thousand vs trademe, but unlikely to save $10k. Also note that the import process isn't risk free. I of a person that imported a modern BMW from the UK which failed compliance due to a large amount of silt behind wheel arch liners indicating flood damage. With car's from japan common issues (which can be checked if you are on to it) are: - only 1 key. SD card missing, snow tires.

 

 

Disclaimer: I've never done it personally, only napkin math'd it.  

 

GST is definitely something I didn't consider, but I don't think it's as doom as gloom as you've put down.

 

  • I purposely chose a "middle of the pack" price point of 2.9m yen, it sounds like we're in soft agreement of this price band - this is currently NZ$36,862.15,
  • NZ importing companies charge between $1.5k and $2k~ for this price bracket, excludes compliance and rego (I believe there are some that will do that for you too for a bit more). We'll say $2k,
  • Compliance and registration and plates can cost up to $900 - I am seriously overshooting this but napkin maths is best done conservatively,
  • At this point I forgot GST and we're just shy of NZ$40k.  Throw GST on the final figure and we land on $45726.  

This is for a 2019 e+X.  For me personally I'm valuing the 62kwh battery and faster motor.  The cheapest on Trademe I can see rn is $51450.  I don't have an answer for why the 2020 vehicle is amongst the 2019's, I assume there's a reason

 

For that $5.7k+ saved I can take on a lot of faffage :)


Scott3
3374 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2721102 9-Jun-2021 10:54
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duckInferno:

 

Disclaimer: I've never done it personally, only napkin math'd it.  

 

GST is definitely something I didn't consider, but I don't think it's as doom as gloom as you've put down.

 

  • I purposely chose a "middle of the pack" price point of 2.9m yen, it sounds like we're in soft agreement of this price band - this is currently NZ$36,862.15,
  • NZ importing companies charge between $1.5k and $2k~ for this price bracket, excludes compliance and rego (I believe there are some that will do that for you too for a bit more). We'll say $2k,
  • Compliance and registration and plates can cost up to $900 - I am seriously overshooting this but napkin maths is best done conservatively,
  • At this point I forgot GST and we're just shy of NZ$40k.  Throw GST on the final figure and we land on $45726.  

This is for a 2019 e+X.  For me personally I'm valuing the 62kwh battery and faster motor.  The cheapest on Trademe I can see rn is $51450.  I don't have an answer for why the 2020 vehicle is amongst the 2019's, I assume there's a reason

 

For that $5.7k+ saved I can take on a lot of faffage :)

 

 

I have imported a used BMW i3 from the Uk (Just after the Brexit vote when the pound tanked), but never have done it from the UK.

 

I still think you might be a little short on the cost to get the car on the road. Below is the cost table of carwebs to buy a car from the auctions:

 

 

+ Rego ($250)
+ [optional] English Conversion ($999 for ZE1 leaf bluecase fresh import package: https://bluecars.nz/shop/full-package-a-freshly-imported-leaf/ - Similar pricing from EV Enhances in the south island)
+ [optional] Some kind of charge cord ($400?)

 

I think there is some money to be saved, but unless you enjoy being involved in the process, the margins dealers are running are fairly thin, and may be worth paying for convenience, faster delivery, and to carry less risk.

 

Should note that my leaf was a private import from japan by the prior owner. Sounded like he was happy with going that route.


duckInferno
89 posts

Master Geek


  #2721122 9-Jun-2021 11:30
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Interesting, yeah they're a bit more spenny than I was expecting.  NZ$49,502 + $250 rego

 

 

The cost variation is kind of confusing.  For example, why is it so much more expensive for carwebs compared to 

 

I remember another service that quoted a flat $3000 registered to your door, can't find them again for the life of me

 

 

 

edit: more!

 

Beforward looks to have a supplied service - its only e+ is a high end nismo, though it's still way cheaper than NZ go figure... 

 

https://www.import-your-car.co.nz/ charges a fee of $800 which appears to include compliance - hmmmm???

 

 

 

 


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