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everettpsycho
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  #2997181 16-Nov-2022 19:50
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TommySharp:

I'm 99% sure our 2018 leaf only has a 3.6kw onboard charger which is annoying me because I've just had a decent 40A wall charger installed.
Anyone seen/heard/experienced a way to upgrade the onboard charger to the larger 6.x kw version?



I was looking in to it and it doesn't seem the easiest thing to do. I did comment on EVs enhanced video asking if they'd offer an ac charger upgrade when the 70kWh beast arrives as an option instead if waiting 20 hours to recharge the thing and they said it's an easy swap out if you can find one. There's also another option from Brusa a few people have installed but it's very DIY and I don't think your insurance would happy of your diy car charger caught fire. Does beg the question, should ev modification be given a certificate of compliance like a lot of electrical work?

It will be a win win for them if you trade in an old or new pack. They still need the enclosure to build a 16 blade for the next customer, so if they rip out a good 40kWh pack they can on sell it as is, but they can't then in turn make another 16 blade to sell for likely more profit and will need to source another enclosure. Hopefully they also partber with some companies to use the old cells for static storage or reconditioning some packs.

It's all in the price and timing though, if they released today a$20k before trade in I think the main users would be people buying up very cheap 24kWh cars that have low SOH and swapping the pack. If I was in the market now I'd seriously consider that option and looking at keeping the 60% SOH battery for use at home. $27k plus a bit for installation of the static storage is a great price.

 
 
 

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).
GV27
5554 posts

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  #2997307 17-Nov-2022 07:50
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everettpsycho:

 

I did comment on EVs enhanced video asking if they'd offer an ac charger upgrade when the 70kWh beast arrives as an option instead if waiting 20 hours to recharge the thing and they said it's an easy swap out if you can find one. There's also another option from Brusa a few people have installed but it's very DIY and I don't think your insurance would happy of your diy car charger caught fire. Does beg the question, should ev modification be given a certificate of compliance like a lot of electrical work?

 

As far as a ZE1 is concerned, supposedly plug-and-play. But a Type 2 PDM will ask different questions about the locking mechanism to the Type 1 PDM and may register errors as the wiring looms are slightly different. 

 

A Type 1 6kw PDM is rare enough that I haven't seen one on TM in the time that I've been looking. Hopefully this changes as more JDM E+ LEafs get parted out. I have seen some complete EM57 units on Yahoo Auctions Japan with it, but that's a lot of weight to freight over when you only want the top bit.

 

The Brusa charger is for the older models, I think, where the charger itself was a separate under-floor unit.


boland
510 posts

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  #2997926 18-Nov-2022 11:56
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I'm contemplating swapping our Corolla ICE for a Leaf. I don't want to spend more than 15k on a car. So, that means it has to be a Leaf.

 

I'd like the 30kwh variant for some extra range.
I've seen a bunch of 30kw Leafs with 70-80% SOH from around 2016, around the 12-17k price mark (after rebate). Range would be approx 120km which is sufficient for us. For longer trips we can take our campervan.

 

I would like an import, both for the rebate, and the warranty from a dealer.

 

It should save us around 3k annually, so even if it depreciates to zero, it will pay back itself in about 5 years.

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me? Anything I should be looking out for? 




jonathan18
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  #2997941 18-Nov-2022 12:23
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boland:

 

I'm contemplating swapping our Corolla ICE for a Leaf. ...

 

... Range would be approx 120km which is sufficient for us... 

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me? Anything I should be looking out for? 

 

 

TLDR: if you're looking at a car that typically reports a range of around 120 km when driven in a primarily urban environment, expect about around 2/3rds of that on the open road; this may mean you'll be using your campervan a bit more or alternatively look to charge on the way or at your destination.

 

Just be realistic about what the claimed range of 120km really means in practice, and remember that EVs are typically the opposite of ICE cars: much more efficient in the urban environment than on the open road.

 

If you do go with a Leaf you'll soon learn about the charms of its GOM (guessometer), with that range reading being highly influenced by previous driving. (It's possible most EVs have the same problem but it's just probably more noticeable in a Leaf due to the low baseline; personally, on my Model Y I keep it on % rather than km as I find that helps with my mindset re range anxiety!)

 

As an example, when we first bought our Leaf it regularly reported 145 km range; this reflected usage around town. Took it on its first and only (relatively!) long-distance trip - 95 km from home - and we made it but with not much to spare. (Thanks to battery degradation since, it now reports a range of about 105 km, so realistically I'd expect to get not much more than 70 km on a primarily open road trip.)

 

 

 

 


boland
510 posts

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  #2997972 18-Nov-2022 12:38
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jonathan18:

 

TLDR: if you're looking at a car that typically reports a range of around 120 km when driven in a primarily urban environment, expect about around 2/3rds of that on the open road; this may mean you'll be using your campervan a bit more or alternatively look to charge on the way or at your destination.

 

 

80km open road is fine as well. 99% of our trips are urban around the Wellington region. Anything beyond that is a holiday trip and we'll take the campervan.


Batman
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  #2997991 18-Nov-2022 12:59
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boland:


It should save us around 3k annually, so even if it depreciates to zero, it will pay back itself in about 5 years.


Seems like a no-brainer to me? Anything I should be looking out for? 



Same I bought a car with 60% soh for next to no money (sold 2 bicycles in the garage to pay for it) and it's been saving money since day 1

boland
510 posts

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  #2997995 18-Nov-2022 13:09
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Batman:
boland:

 

 

 

It should save us around 3k annually, so even if it depreciates to zero, it will pay back itself in about 5 years.

 

 

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me? Anything I should be looking out for? 

 



Same I bought a car with 60% soh for next to no money (sold 2 bicycles in the garage to pay for it) and it's been saving money since day 1

 

You bought a 24kwh or 30kwh? And what is "next to no money"? The ones I'm looking at (30kwh, 70-80 soh) are 12-17k after rebate.




Batman
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  #2998011 18-Nov-2022 13:52
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24kwh, 7k

 

it has heated steering heated seats heat pump luxury!


Scott3
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  #2998080 18-Nov-2022 15:08
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boland:

 

I'm contemplating swapping our Corolla ICE for a Leaf. I don't want to spend more than 15k on a car. So, that means it has to be a Leaf.

 

I'd like the 30kwh variant for some extra range.
I've seen a bunch of 30kw Leafs with 70-80% SOH from around 2016, around the 12-17k price mark (after rebate). Range would be approx 120km which is sufficient for us. For longer trips we can take our campervan.

 

I would like an import, both for the rebate, and the warranty from a dealer.

 

It should save us around 3k annually, so even if it depreciates to zero, it will pay back itself in about 5 years.

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me? Anything I should be looking out for? 

 

 

It's basically what we did two years ago.

 

Bought a (fairly low battery health) 24kWh, 2014 leaf, to replace our trusty 2006 corolla with a quarter million km on the clock.The leaf is a substantially nicer car than the corolla.

 

Likewise, we have another vehicle that we use for stuff the leaf is bad at (and when we need two vehicles.

 

 

 

On range, my rule of thumb is to take the EPA rated range, and multiply by the State of health. For a 2014+ 24kWh it's 135km, for 30kWh it's 172km.

 

So for a 70% health 30kWh it's 120km.

 

I find EPA range fairly attainable in NZ, as long as you drive gently, and not too quickly (driving at the limit on 110km roads really smokes the range).

 

 

 

We charge to 80% on weekdays and 100% on weekends, and I try to keep about 10% range as a reserve (has happened to me twice in two years, where the car has dropped 10% in a matter of minutes, and I have to divert to a fast charger, so I try and keep a bigger buffer now.

So if you do the same as me and charge to 80% on weekdays, that 120km range car is only really good for 84km.

 

And be aware that health will continue to drop at 3-5 % a year, so in 2 - 3 years, it will be a 60% health car good for 103km (or 72km if you charge to 80% and keep a 10% reserve).

 

 

 

Things to be aware of:

 

- New imports sometimes have a "glow", where lots of recent fast charging (japan is very big on DC charging) causes them to over-report their SOH by say 5%. If this is the case, you will see a rapid drop in reported SOH in the first couple of months.

 

- Battery health is extremely important.

 

- If your range needs are modest, you could consider a good health 24kWh battery too. 30kWh packs are more prone to bad health and issues.

 

- Avoid anything older than 2014 in your budget. 24kWh battery chemistry changed in late 2013 to one that degrades less.

 

- Avoid s trim (no heatpump, no B mode, manual climate control.

 

- Side airbags are a somewhat rare feature, and desirable.

 

- Halogen low beans suck, try get the LED version.

 

- Paint is real soft (can scratch with fingernail).

 

- Privacy shelfs in the boot seem uncommon so, I got mine aftermarket.

 

- Charge cords are fairly valuable. $400 - $800 new for a basic 8A unit for a standard domestic socket.

 

- Soft touch seats like in my Autech generate static in summer (I assume standard seats and leather seats are fine)

 

- 16" tire size is cheaper and will be a touch more efficient, and likely faster to accelerate, but you get a few mm less ground clearance due to lower rolling diameter.

 

- If the dealer hasn't done it already budget to convert both the entertainment screen and dashboard screen to English. Well worth the money.

 

https://bluecars.nz/lang_conv/

 

- If you don't have a place to charge overnight, don't buy a leaf.

 

- If you are going to do public AC charging, the cord is worth about $240.

 

- They are prone to rusting on top of the front suspension mounts - grease or put caps on that area.

 

- Approach angle on the autech / areo leaf is pretty bad, prone to scraping bumper on the ground.

 

- They respond well to a little more than the specified 36psi in the tire's. I run 40psi.

 

 

 

Sadly I think the approach you have mentioned (working out the payback period for the entire purchase price, and zero residual). very poor battery health leaf's are worth very little now (i.e. a 2011, 90,000km leaf with 56% SOH is asking $6500), even with inflated vehicle prices due to the pandemic / war. Suspect my 2014 will be in a similar position in 5 years time or so.

 

 

 

On battery health, look at the resource below:

 

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

 

 


boland
510 posts

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  #2998090 18-Nov-2022 15:25
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@Scott3 thanks heaps for the detailed answered! Yeah, discovered about the air bags, there aren't many with 6 air bags.

 

Plan is to buy a ~2016 one, and I'll avoid S.

 

I've done some maths, with deprecation set to $2500 on a 2016 Leaf of around $14k it's still saving us $1k compared to our Corolla 2015 with $1k deprecation per year.
So not going completely to zero, I'm assuming it is still worth $4k 4 years from now which I think is fair.

 

Good point about a good 24kwh. Gives us more options. It's frustrating that I can't easily filter on SOH/KWH on TradeMe, have to go through all listings again :)


boland
510 posts

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  #2998092 18-Nov-2022 15:28
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How bad are the 30kwh issues really @Scott3 ?
As I've read multiple recommendations to go for the 30kwh option if possible


Batman
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  #2998154 18-Nov-2022 16:13
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boland:

 

@Scott3 thanks heaps for the detailed answered! Yeah, discovered about the air bags, there aren't many with 6 air bags.

 

Plan is to buy a ~2016 one, and I'll avoid S.

 

I've done some maths, with deprecation set to $2500 on a 2016 Leaf of around $14k it's still saving us $1k compared to our Corolla 2015 with $1k deprecation per year.
So not going completely to zero, I'm assuming it is still worth $4k 4 years from now which I think is fair.

 

Good point about a good 24kwh. Gives us more options. It's frustrating that I can't easily filter on SOH/KWH on TradeMe, have to go through all listings again :)

 

 

did you account for the fact that i have never needed to service the leaf - not a single oil change or spark plugs or anything like that

 

just remember you have to make sure the brakes are working and tyres have tread ...


Scott3
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  #2998257 18-Nov-2022 23:08
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It goes against my general ethos to buy a relatively short lasting car, and I like the concept of owning a vehicle with a reputation durability & lasting a long time (i.e. a 80 / 100 series Landcruiser or Lexus LX470). But sadly 

 

 

 

boland:

 

How bad are the 30kwh issues really @Scott3 ?
As I've read multiple recommendations to go for the 30kwh option if possible

 

 

I think the key is not to get a poor state of health 30kWh pack. If you look at the graph below, you can see that the red bar (5 percentile) is significantly lower than what the 2014+ 24kWh cars have. With 30kWh car's, you don't want one of those cars.

 

However even beyond that, the 30kWh packs seem more prone to issues. (old article):

 

https://evsenhanced.com/services/30kwh-leaf-cell-imbalance-and-complete-cell-failure/

 

One of the users of this forum had the pack in a 30kWh leaf fail some year's ago. That said, they were using the car for extensive road trips. While they put lots of extra effort in to keep the pack cool, the head from large number of DC charges could have had an impact on the battery.

 

The approx 2017 car's that are still showing good health, have had ample time for any issues to show themselves.

 

 

 

The price difference to jump to a 30kWh car is a lot less than what it was two years ago, and the leaf really needs all the help it can get when it comes to range, so if you will use the range, a 30kWh car could well be a good bet.


Batman
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  #2998279 19-Nov-2022 07:47
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the thing about the SOH is I think it is easily manipulated

 

i bought mine at 60% SOH and within a month it lost one bar and settled in the mid 50s since.

 

so i feel that the previous owner, upon losing a bar, quick charged it to the max, regained that bar and sold it

 

recently visited a dealer and the first thing they said when they sat me down was to expect 6% "settling" from the advertised SOH


boland
510 posts

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  #2998300 19-Nov-2022 09:39
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How important is mileage really? I know this question was asked a couple of days ago, but in my case the price is different. 

 

  • Option 1: 2016, 110k km, 75% SoH, 1000 QC. 
  • Option 2: 2016, 30k km, 74% SoH, 50 QC

Option 1 is $16k, option 2 is $19.5k , so $3500 difference.

 

I'm contemplating option 1 as with more KM's it still has the same SoH, so I feel that the battery would be better? 

 

 


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