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84 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1759329 8-Apr-2017 08:41
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Interesting. What I'm wondering is, when it comes time to replace the GEN 1 & 2 batteries, will they be replaced with these more robust batteries or not?

E.g. I could buy a cheap GEN 2 with a slightly run down battery for $13k less than the new 30kWh models. I'm pretty sure a full battery replacement won't cost $13k (granted, the new models do have a larger battery).

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1759347 8-Apr-2017 09:21
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Linuxluver:

 

pogo: So what's the maximum range you guys have got out of your Leafs? Highway vs. city?


Assume the terrain is generally flat, like in Canterbury. 

It's all about the speed. 

Greenrace reckons my 30kWh LEAF would be able to drive from Christchurch to Oamaru (250.47km) at a steady 50kph with about 9% left over (total range 277km). Max elevation reached is about 120m. 

But what happens at a *steady* 100kph? My range falls to 162km and I might *just* make it to Timaru (161km). Doubling the speed cost me +/-  100km in range. 

Other factors would be wind, heavy acceleration instead of light acceleration....and roads being wet or dry (dry is better). 

I've experimented with getting up at 5am and going out on the highway when no one is around.....and you can be incredibly efficient when you're able to drive at 80kph instead of 100kph.....and take your time reaching the target speed instead of pushing the pedal down.

 

Your range is up to you and how disciplined you are about being efifcient....and about choosing routes that allow you go a bit slower without going much further. 

It's a different way of thinking about driving and how you drive. I love exploring the 'habits' embedded in my head from 40 years of ICE driving.....and tossing them out, one by one, if they prove useless or counterproductive with an electric car. 



 

A very interesting post which demonstrates that "range awareness" is far more critical with many EVs than it is with ICE cars (internal combustion engine).

 

I can understand that, when range is about 160 km at a "steady" 100 km/h, I would also be tempted to drive 80 km/h, rather than 100 km/h in a Nissan Leaf. But, here's the thing, if you do that, you'll soon find yourself being pulled over by a traffic officer if you don't stop often enough to let faster cars pass you!

 

I would like to buy an EV, but if I owned a Nissan Leaf I would probably just use it around town so that I could always charge it up at home.

 

I really like the concept behind the BMW i3 where you have a petrol range extender (REx) that can charge the battery while you drive to give you an extra 120km of range (total range of 300km). But I can understand why some people prefer a "pure" electric car without any petrol-based assistance.

 

And the latest BMW i3 costs $85,000 plus extras and is beyond what most people would want to pay for a small car which is really designed for use around town rather than lots of continuous 100km/h driving! Even a second-hand old model i3 costs around $50,000 - $60,000 for a good one!

 

Cheers

 

Fred

 

 

 

 

 




 

 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1759367 8-Apr-2017 09:43
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If Nissan keep making non-backwards-compatible batteries, how do we know that they will keep producing older battery packs for older models? Or will those older models be "abandoned"?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1759426 8-Apr-2017 11:50
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pogo: If Nissan keep making non-backwards-compatible batteries, how do we know that they will keep producing older battery packs for older models? Or will those older models be "abandoned"?

Most of the rest of the world thinks a car probably only has a shorter life than we tend to expect here.
I would guess they don't really think battery replacement would be that much of a thing.
That said it sounds like generally the ev's last a long time.

How long would you trust the. To provide batteries? Good question.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  Reply # 1759428 8-Apr-2017 12:03
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There will always be risks with newer technology. OK the 30kWH batteries can't be fitted to earlier models, but total world sales are more than 250,000 so there might be market that develops for reconditioned batteries.

Last week I read post that said in March 2017, the Nissan leaf was the 3rd most popular pure ev car sold that month in the US.

If you want to play it safe with minimal/no risk then buy a petrol car.

A.



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  Reply # 1759653 9-Apr-2017 07:28
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pogo: Interesting. What I'm wondering is, when it comes time to replace the GEN 1 & 2 batteries, will they be replaced with these more robust batteries or not?

E.g. I could buy a cheap GEN 2 with a slightly run down battery for $13k less than the new 30kWh models. I'm pretty sure a full battery replacement won't cost $13k (granted, the new models do have a larger battery).


The number most often used is abut US$5,500.....but the challenge is actually acquiring one and then getting it installed in the car. It's not plug and play. The batteries are 'keyed' to the car. Nissan has to do it....or someone with access to Nissan tools. 

They clearly do not want an after market they have no control over. 





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  Reply # 1759654 9-Apr-2017 07:28
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pogo: Interesting. What I'm wondering is, when it comes time to replace the GEN 1 & 2 batteries, will they be replaced with these more robust batteries or not?

E.g. I could buy a cheap GEN 2 with a slightly run down battery for $13k less than the new 30kWh models. I'm pretty sure a full battery replacement won't cost $13k (granted, the new models do have a larger battery).


The number most often used is abut US$5,500.....but the challenge is actually acquiring one and then getting it installed in the car. It's not plug and play. The batteries are 'keyed' to the car. Nissan has to do it....or someone with access to Nissan tools. 

They clearly do not want an after market they have no control over. 





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1759684 9-Apr-2017 09:17
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I found this image which is really great for knowing expected battery capacity loss for the 30 kWh Leafs:



Does anyone have a similar chart or info for the Gen 2 24 kWh battery pack? Would be rather useful.

gzt

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  Reply # 1765249 17-Apr-2017 10:17
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What is the effect on capacity over time without use? Ie; if used infrequently does the battery have a degradation curve?



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  Reply # 1765389 17-Apr-2017 18:30
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pogo: I found this image which is really great for knowing expected battery capacity loss for the 30 kWh Leafs:



Does anyone have a similar chart or info for the Gen 2 24 kWh battery pack? Would be rather useful.

 

That table is rubbish. It was written in 2015 before the 30kWh LEAFs were even on the road. It may be based on the experience of Gen 1 owners.....I don't know. 

My own 30kWh LEAF now has 22,500km (14,000 miles) on the clock and is 13 months old....and the battery is 100% SoH. No decline in capacity at all. If anything, the AHr (Amp Hours / module) potential has increased from 78.8 when I got it to 80.19 yesterday. My battery is actually getting better.....not worse. 

According to this table, my battery should be at 91% of original capacity, not the 100% it actually is.

The 30kWh battery uses the battery chemistry of the KIA SOUL EV. From what I have heard that formulation is proving to be a good one.  

 

I drove my LEAF from Auckland to Invercargill this week. The battery is awesome. 

 

 





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1767058 19-Apr-2017 07:54
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@Linuxluver. Granted, that chart may be wrong, but it seems the 30kWh Leafs are still prone to degradation. Your post got me thinking about buying a 30kWh model, so I'm asking dealers for Leaf Spy info. The first response I get was this:



Maybe you're just treating your Leaf really well? I suppose at least I know that IF you treat them nicely the battery can last a long time. But it's not a given.



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  Reply # 1767629 19-Apr-2017 22:49
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There's something seriously wrong there. That car has just over 200 charges in total. No way should that battery be at 92% after such a small number of charges.

Leaf Spy may not be properly configured?

I'd like to get my hands on that car and do a real life range test on it.




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  Reply # 1767630 19-Apr-2017 22:51
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Linuxluver: There's something seriously wrong there. That car has just over 200 charges in total. No way should that battery be at 92% after such a small number of charges.

Leaf Spy may not be properly configured?

I'd like to get my hands on that car and do a real life range test on it.


Or maybe the xar has been tampered with to make the number of charges look smaller.




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High fibre diet




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  Reply # 1767631 19-Apr-2017 22:51
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Linuxluver: There's something seriously wrong there. That car has just over 200 charges in total. No way should that battery be at 92% after such a small number of charges.

Leaf Spy may not be properly configured?

I'd like to get my hands on that car and do a real life range test on it.


Or maybe the xar has been tampered with to make the number of charges look smaller.




____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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