Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58
1957 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 458


  Reply # 1840548 7-Aug-2017 13:15
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Re: “No GPS for New Zealand currently for original AV Unit.“

Surely the original (2011) NZ new ones came with NZ maps and could be clones to be installed in the memory slot for the English unit?

However, I think I read somewhere in this very thread that the NZ maps haven’t been updated and someone saw themselves “wacking across paddocks” when driving down the Waikato Expressway, so they’d only be useful inner city where there haven’t been as much change in the last 5 years...

318 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 38


  Reply # 1840574 7-Aug-2017 14:04
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

MarkH67:

 

 

 

That sort of distance makes me cringe if done in a fossil fuel burner.  The FFB wont be able to get up to operating temperature with trips that short and that is not all that good for them (and lousy for fuel efficiency).  In an EV (full battery EV or plug-in hybrid) that distance is just fine, super easy to get that range and you don't even need to charge every day.

 

 

 

 

Invercargill is a small place, and it has been know to rain, or get on the colder side once or twice a year, at least we don't have a traffic problem where we are sitting for ages going no where.   But I'm afraid those types of distances in petrol cars are reality for a large number of the population, and will be for a number of years to come.  There is no incentive from the current government, and none of the running parties to try and change this.

 

 

 

I think your concern should be towards the people that drive even shorter distances, then circle the shop for ages waiting for a car park right outside the door


 
 
 
 


74 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 58


  Reply # 1840577 7-Aug-2017 14:17
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

PhantomNVD: Re: “No GPS for New Zealand currently for original AV Unit.“

Surely the original (2011) NZ new ones came with NZ maps and could be clones to be installed in the memory slot for the English unit?

However, I think I read somewhere in this very thread that the NZ maps haven’t been updated and someone saw themselves “wacking across paddocks” when driving down the Waikato Expressway, so they’d only be useful inner city where there haven’t been as much change in the last 5 years...

 

I'll just go with the cheapest option - a suction cup for my RAM mount so I can attach my smart phone to my windscreen.

 

I use a free navigation app that works with free open source maps which I downloaded at home through the WiFi and update every month again through WiFi.  I don't need to use data or to even have a cellular connection for it to work.  I did a motorcycle trip from home to bluff and back (over 2 weeks) and the phone did a great job of navigating me to where I needed to go.  My dash and centre console being in English is enough for me.


901 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 179


  Reply # 1840737 7-Aug-2017 19:15
Send private message quote this post

PhantomNVD: ......

Surely the original (2011) NZ new ones came with NZ maps and could be clones to be installed in the memory slot for the English unit?  ...

 

The day you make that happen - NZ dealers would  be your best friends.....Not there yet. Dealers are paying a fortune to the officials for the original SD card when AV unit comes from Japan without it.

 

I have sent tech info for Leaf AV unit to people who are keen to have a look and make decision of whether it worth the efforts. NZ Map is not a priority for them obviously but mapping, language and FM is.

 

If BGA means anything to you folks then you would realize the complexity involved in that en-devour..

 

AV unit is on the CAN-BUS which adds more complexity as AV unit is integrated into the powertrain. Meaning AV is not standalone. You change it for any aftermarket one - and you loose a lot of functionality.





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


482 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1840766 7-Aug-2017 19:46
Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

What makes it possible - at least for the Nissan LEAF - is that mechanically it's probably one of the most reliable cars ever built. 

Absolutely, for a normal petrol car with thousands of moving parts and an engine containing thousands of explosions per minute......you need service backup. 

I know it's hard to go from one paradigm to another.......old assumptions that don't apply still work strongly on the mind. 

 

 

 

 

I'm just going to respond to the above but there's a certain theme in this kind of reply that's quite tiresome. Breathless excitement of owners defending their new "toys" aside, every sane person looking at this thread knows that EVs are the future. In some cases (like the Tesla 3), they are already amazing. But no amount of excitement, self-anointed smugness or even moral superiority for merely choosing one form of transportation over another will help someone finding themselves stuck with with an inoperable heap with no one to sue if Hick Random EV Importer Ltd with a capital of $100 goes under in the future. Look, on a theoretical level, it is highly likely that EV cars will be very reliable but taking me and my wife as an example, as people who prefer new cars or at least near-new, no such options are available or, if they are, it requires me to deal with some random no-name bunch and to take their word for it that their UI conversations and other works on the car are safe and reliable etc. And given the relatively low age of EVs and small sample sizes (and remembering all the history of how supposedly foolproof technologies in the car world have gone kaput), I am not prepared to uncritically accept the "EVs are more reliable. Guaranteed!" (I'm paraphrasing, obviously) line literally.

 

Sorry but I've got a serious day job to do and, in the case of my wife, she literally has lives to save daily. We haven't got the time to battle with a dealer nor do we wish to cope with the stress of not knowing whether the lot that sold us the car will be around to take any responsibility in a few years' time. And supposedly one branch of Nissan does servicing on the Leaf according to one EV owner? Are they going to keep doing it? What about if I move out of Auckland. I manage and handle commercial and contractual risks worth tens of millions daily -- I just can't look myself in the mirror and take what I advise people at work to do to be prudent etc seriously if I go around managing my own life like this. And we haven't even started on the admitted ease with it battery condition information etc can be fiddled with by dishonest sellers.

 

Until the manufacturers put their own networks and reputation fully on the line in NZ in relation to EVs, going into it is literally a leap of faith worth tens of thousands of dollars.

 

 

I sympathise with your position on this as for many years I have always bought NZ new vehicles.

 

You can buy a NZ-new pure electric 28 kWh Hyundai Ionic for about $60,000 and this has a range of about 200km. This vehicle has received very good reviews, but for this money, I would prefer to have a range of at least 300km.

 

Nevertheless, if you are satisfied with a range of 200km, this seems to be the cheapest NZ-new pure electric car available at the moment. But it's a lot of money to pay to get started with EVs and this is why most people are buying second-hand imported vehicles. When you can buy a nice little NZ-new EV for around $30,000, then the EV market will really take off.


74 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 58


  Reply # 1840769 7-Aug-2017 19:54
Send private message quote this post

frednz:

 

When you can buy a nice little NZ-new EV for around $30,000, then the EV market will really take off.

 

 

Apparently the Kia Soul EV could be available here soon.  I don't know what it will cost but generally Kia cars are cheaper than Hyundai.

 

I am confident that over the next couple of years we will see many new options for new EV cars in NZ.


1008 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 675

Subscriber

  Reply # 1840770 7-Aug-2017 19:55
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 


482 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1840771 7-Aug-2017 19:56
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

All I can say to the above is roll on the day when brand NZ new Nissan Leafs with proper NZ support are available at a price no greater than $40,000! Reading here and also on Facebook about all the problems that can arise when buying second-hand EVs sure is enough to make me wait until NZ new is available at a reasonable price. Well, I might go to $50,000 for NZ new, but that currently doesn't get me in the door! Perhaps one of the political parties will offer decent subsidies for NZ new buyers?

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I like the technology and have enjoyed driving my work's EVs but I can't take seriously some of the breathless excitement being expressed by people over buying from some random dealer of 2nd hand vehicles whose current entity have only been around for a few years. I looked at GVI's website and, for example, it's almost impossible to get any concrete information on the extent/coverage of their warranties. More importantly, looking at the Trademe ad that MarkH67 was excitedly mentioning, all I saw were reasons to be alarmed. For example, this is what the ad had to say for warranty:

 

Exclusive EV Battery / Mechanical Warranty Cover 12, 24 and 36 Months with Roadside Assistance

 

Sorry but on this planet and in light of our CGA, I wish the best of luck to any dealer who tries to claim that an EV, which is relatively high-priced as an upfront, capital investment, should only last for 12 months (depending on what warranty option that you buy). This especially since EVs are meant to suffer from less wear and tear. Yeah sure they didn't say that your CGA rights don't apply (because that would be illegal) but I wouldn't have any confidence in an entity's willingness to observe the CGA when they offer warranty options like this. Until I get to deal with the actual manufacturers directly or at least more established, reputable dealers, I am not willing to take a punt yet. Car manufacturers/dealers are, as a rule, far too sociopathic to risk too much upon.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I can also see a few reasons to be alarmed, particularly when a dealer says this about a Nissan Leaf:

 

This vehicle is superior to Japanese imports as everything is in English, making the on-screen information easy to understand & configure, adjustable units such as Miles or Kilometres, Charging control timers, Climate control timers, etc.

 

It is also supplied with the Factory portable charging lead, 2x Key Fobs, Owner’s Manual (Being English of course!

 

So, it seems that it's far better to get a UK Nissan Leaf than a Japanese one. Interpreting the quote above would suggest that a Japanese import might require a NZ owner to take a course in Japanese before driving!

 

So what do dealers do to convert a Japanese import to one that a NZ owner can deal with, including having NZ maps / GPS etc?

 

One dealer told me that the best buy is a Nissan Leaf Tekna, 30kw, 2016 or 2017, but when I checked the prices for these, they were up around the $40,000 mark, and one was even $42,000 (more than some BMW i3's).

 

So what are the main differences between a UK Leaf and a Japanese Leaf, are the UK ones built better etc?

 

 

I'll answer as best I can, based on what I know. 

If you want an all-English LEAF then you want a UK LEAF. The head unit will be in English and the dash will be in English. The car comes with EU maps - UK to Poland...so useless here. 
The UK LEAF tends to also come with a 6.7kw AC internal charger, allowing charging at 32amp / 7kw. This allows a 30kw battery to be fully charged from empty, at home, in 3.5-4 hours. (I have one). 
The UK LEAF has steels doors to conform to EU crash safety standards. 

The Japan LEAF has a Japanese head unit and dash. The S model (lowest trim) can be completely replaced as it doesn't integrate with the car energy systems. The X and G models must remain in Japanese. But this is not really a problem for anyone with a smart phone that can run Google Translate. You just hold the phone up to the Japanese display with Translate in camera mode and the text is translated in the camera image in real-time.  Most people find this more than good enough. The dash can also be converted in firmware from Japanese to English. GVI in Penrose do this for about $25. They also hold "clinics" around the country where LEAF owners can book in their car for a one-time conversion to English. @RUKI here on GZ can also offer a similar service in converting the dash to English.

The Japanese LEAF has aluminium doors.
The Japanese LEAF can also come with "Lane Assist" - telling the driver if they are drifting out of their lane - which the UK LEAF does not have.
The Japanese LEAF comes with a 3.3kw internal AC charger so maximum AC charge rate is 3.3kw / 16amp. This can fully charge an empty battery in 7-8 hours.  

 

Generally, maps and GPS in either car - even if we had NZ maps - aren't as good as a phone mounted on the dash with Google Maps.  Google is always more up to date and offers more options and services. 

These issues are minor in the grand scheme. Being able to buy a 30kWh LEAF from Japan for around $30k is great value. I could happily use Google Translate to read a few screens if necessary. Once you know the screens, you don't need to use it anymore anyway. 

I own a 2016 UK "Tekna" with a 30kWh battery. Yes, I paid well over $40K for it...and don't regret it for a second. I wanted the bigger battery and the faster AC charging. The car is awesome...and the 30kWh battery has enough range to be both a city car and a cross-country car. In April / May I drove it from Auckland to Bluff and then to Cape Reinga and back to Auckland. I regularly drive it to eastern Bay of Plenty (between 6am and Noon) and / or Napier. It's been to Wellington and back on SH1 as of last week, thanks to all the new fast chargers along that route. 

I do plan to get a Tesla Model 3 when it's available. But until then my LEAF is more than good enough. 



 

 

 

 

Thanks for this detailed reply, it is very helpful to know these points. The fact that the UK model has steel doors and the Japanese one has aluminium doors is interesting and would probably be worth paying extra for.


482 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1840782 7-Aug-2017 20:18
Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 

 

 

I also talked to Renault a few months ago and it looks like the latest NZ-new Zoe would cost close to $70,000. However, perhaps a firmer (and hopefully lower) price is likely now?

 

It also seems that the 2018 Nissan Leaf model may be sold new by Nissan, but again, I have seen reports which indicate that a price of around $70,000 may be on the cards (perhaps someone with more accurate knowledge could comment on this).

 

I found this statement on the site of a dealer of second-hand EVs and, although it's not a manufacturer's warranty, it does offer some support:

 

We specialize in plug in electric vehicles with the most diverse range of EVs available in New Zealand. We stand behind our Electric Vehicles 100% by offering a 3 year battery warranty from date of registration or a minimum of 12 months regardless of date. You can buy with confidence as all our vehicles are fully inspection by workshop professionals prior to sale and are guaranteed non accident.

 

We pride ourselves on offering the highest standard of service and quality when purchasing your next Electric Vehicle and offer free delivery New Zealand wide

 

However, even if I was to buy an EV from a good company like this, the servicing issue for an EV is something that would worry me. For example, owners of BMW i3's around the world say that it's very important to get your servicing done by BMW as it's only BMW who have the specialist equipment needed to check it out properly. So, if you don't live near a BMW service centre, then I don't think I would trust the local garage to service my i3.

 

Strangely enough, I asked a Honda service centre if they could service a BMW i3 and they said they are doing a few, but I wonder whether they would have all the equipment that BMW has for this task.

 

 


1008 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 675

Subscriber

  Reply # 1840813 7-Aug-2017 21:20
Send private message quote this post

frednz:

 

We pride ourselves on offering the highest standard of service and quality when purchasing your next Electric Vehicle and offer free delivery New Zealand wide

 

However, even if I was to buy an EV from a good company like this, the servicing issue for an EV is something that would worry me.

 

 

I just wouldn't/can't just take the word of some company as gospel. Honestly, how are they going to support me? Like you say, do they have all the relevant diagnostic equipment and tools?

 

 

 

 




4470 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 774

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1840818 7-Aug-2017 21:38
Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 

 



Thanks. You only buy new cars.  :-) 

As you say, there will be more to choose from soon in the way of electric cars. 

I guess the only observation I can make is that people seem to assume that climate change can wait until they can get just what they want in the way they want it. 

At over 410ppm of CO2 already in the atmosphere and more every day...with consequent changes already locked in for the next several centuries.....I'm not sure how or why the frogs don't show more concern about the warming pot they are in.

Even when warned.....

I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if we all don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  The job right now, this minute, is to try to limit the harm we have already set in motion. 

To aid in that, yes, I bought a one year old EV from the UK without a useful warranty. As you point out, such new cars don't really need much maintenance anyway....so I've had no problems....and don't burn any fossil fuels either. 

I'm not trying to annoy you, though I'm probably succeeding. At the same time, the point needs to be made that, really, we can't wait any longer. We've already wasted 30 years doing nothing. 

 

 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


1008 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 675

Subscriber

  Reply # 1840824 7-Aug-2017 21:57
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

 


I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  

 

Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.

 

 


1957 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 458


  Reply # 1840841 7-Aug-2017 22:40
Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

Linuxluver:



I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  


Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.


 



Sooo many suppositions in that Aussie cos/benefit analysis! As someone who just bought a leaf to replace a 1.6L Corolla I have a 3 and 1/2 year payback period on the TOTAL cost of ownership.

My wife’s 84km return commute (plus sundry travel as it was the’main’ family car for the last 20 years) cost us $2,700-3,400/year in fuel alone (22,000km/year average over the 10 years we ran it for) the $12,000 we bought it for with 50,000kms on the clock has now become 280,000kms and it’s worth around $1,500.

We paid 10,850 for a 2011 Leaf with 11/12 battery bars remaining ... in less than four years (not even counting servicing or road user charges saved) we will have paid for the leaf in fuel savings alone.

That study you referenced mentions about AU$2,000 cost to scrap the battery, Nissan says it will give US$1,000 to recover it, and then charge US$5,500 to replace it with a new 24KWh ‘lizzard’ (Better technology) battery... giving me another 10 years use (to 70% of new chargeability) and this would (should fuel remain at current prices) be paid for AGAIN I only 2-3 years use.

For me, financially alone, the Leaf is a ‘no brainer’ decision...



4470 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 774

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1840843 7-Aug-2017 22:41
Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 


I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  

 

Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.

 

 

Yeah...its someone else's problem. You're not responsible for your own emissions. The other guy's failure - the grid, the farmer, the whatever.....to do enough gives you a free pass. Pass the buck. 

You know what? 

The planet doesn't care......but our kids sure will. 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


1008 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 675

Subscriber

  Reply # 1840855 7-Aug-2017 23:20
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

 

Yeah...its someone else's problem. You're not responsible for your own emissions. The other guy's failure - the grid, the farmer, the whatever.....to do enough gives you a free pass. Pass the buck. 

You know what? 

The planet doesn't care......but our kids sure will. 

 

 

If you think your continuous stream of moral sanctimony is going to do anything to enhance your argument, you're sorely mistaken. More importantly, you actually aren't addressing the reality that a large, immediate shift towards EV just isn't doable in either NZ or elsewhere. Climate change is a serious, urgent problem. It just won't be solved by posturing or going around pointing your metaphorical finger at anyone who doesn't share your borderline fanatical obsession with EVs and calling them planet killer.

 

 

 

 


1 | ... | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Public Wi-Fi plus cloud file sharing
Posted 18-Aug-2017 11:20


D-Link NZ launches professional Wireless AC Wave 2 Access Point for businesses
Posted 17-Aug-2017 19:25


Garmin introduces the Rino 700 five-watt two-way handheld radio
Posted 17-Aug-2017 19:04


Garmin announces the Foretrex 601 and Foretrex 701 Ballistic Edition for outdoor and tactical use
Posted 17-Aug-2017 19:02


Brightstar announces new distribution partnership with Samsung Knox platform in Australia
Posted 17-Aug-2017 17:07


Free gig-enabled WiFi network extends across Dunedin
Posted 17-Aug-2017 17:04


Samsung expands with connect Gear S3 Frontier
Posted 17-Aug-2017 15:55


Fact-checking Southern Cross Next cable is fastest to USA
Posted 17-Aug-2017 13:57


Thurrott says Microsoft Surface is dead last for reliability
Posted 16-Aug-2017 15:19


LibreOffice 5.4 works better with Microsoft Office files
Posted 16-Aug-2017 13:32


Certus launches Cognition
Posted 14-Aug-2017 09:31


Spark adds Cambridge, Turangi to 4.5G network
Posted 10-Aug-2017 17:55


REANNZ network to receive ongoing Government funding through to 2024
Posted 10-Aug-2017 16:05


Chorus backhaul starts with 2degrees
Posted 10-Aug-2017 15:49


New Zealanders cool on data analytics catching benefit fraud
Posted 10-Aug-2017 09:56



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.