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190 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1840769 7-Aug-2017 19:54
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frednz:

 

When you can buy a nice little NZ-new EV for around $30,000, then the EV market will really take off.

 

 

Apparently the Kia Soul EV could be available here soon.  I don't know what it will cost but generally Kia cars are cheaper than Hyundai.

 

I am confident that over the next couple of years we will see many new options for new EV cars in NZ.


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  Reply # 1840770 7-Aug-2017 19:55
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Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1840771 7-Aug-2017 19:56
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

All I can say to the above is roll on the day when brand NZ new Nissan Leafs with proper NZ support are available at a price no greater than $40,000! Reading here and also on Facebook about all the problems that can arise when buying second-hand EVs sure is enough to make me wait until NZ new is available at a reasonable price. Well, I might go to $50,000 for NZ new, but that currently doesn't get me in the door! Perhaps one of the political parties will offer decent subsidies for NZ new buyers?

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I like the technology and have enjoyed driving my work's EVs but I can't take seriously some of the breathless excitement being expressed by people over buying from some random dealer of 2nd hand vehicles whose current entity have only been around for a few years. I looked at GVI's website and, for example, it's almost impossible to get any concrete information on the extent/coverage of their warranties. More importantly, looking at the Trademe ad that MarkH67 was excitedly mentioning, all I saw were reasons to be alarmed. For example, this is what the ad had to say for warranty:

 

Exclusive EV Battery / Mechanical Warranty Cover 12, 24 and 36 Months with Roadside Assistance

 

Sorry but on this planet and in light of our CGA, I wish the best of luck to any dealer who tries to claim that an EV, which is relatively high-priced as an upfront, capital investment, should only last for 12 months (depending on what warranty option that you buy). This especially since EVs are meant to suffer from less wear and tear. Yeah sure they didn't say that your CGA rights don't apply (because that would be illegal) but I wouldn't have any confidence in an entity's willingness to observe the CGA when they offer warranty options like this. Until I get to deal with the actual manufacturers directly or at least more established, reputable dealers, I am not willing to take a punt yet. Car manufacturers/dealers are, as a rule, far too sociopathic to risk too much upon.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I can also see a few reasons to be alarmed, particularly when a dealer says this about a Nissan Leaf:

 

This vehicle is superior to Japanese imports as everything is in English, making the on-screen information easy to understand & configure, adjustable units such as Miles or Kilometres, Charging control timers, Climate control timers, etc.

 

It is also supplied with the Factory portable charging lead, 2x Key Fobs, Owner’s Manual (Being English of course!

 

So, it seems that it's far better to get a UK Nissan Leaf than a Japanese one. Interpreting the quote above would suggest that a Japanese import might require a NZ owner to take a course in Japanese before driving!

 

So what do dealers do to convert a Japanese import to one that a NZ owner can deal with, including having NZ maps / GPS etc?

 

One dealer told me that the best buy is a Nissan Leaf Tekna, 30kw, 2016 or 2017, but when I checked the prices for these, they were up around the $40,000 mark, and one was even $42,000 (more than some BMW i3's).

 

So what are the main differences between a UK Leaf and a Japanese Leaf, are the UK ones built better etc?

 

 

I'll answer as best I can, based on what I know. 

If you want an all-English LEAF then you want a UK LEAF. The head unit will be in English and the dash will be in English. The car comes with EU maps - UK to Poland...so useless here. 
The UK LEAF tends to also come with a 6.7kw AC internal charger, allowing charging at 32amp / 7kw. This allows a 30kw battery to be fully charged from empty, at home, in 3.5-4 hours. (I have one). 
The UK LEAF has steels doors to conform to EU crash safety standards. 

The Japan LEAF has a Japanese head unit and dash. The S model (lowest trim) can be completely replaced as it doesn't integrate with the car energy systems. The X and G models must remain in Japanese. But this is not really a problem for anyone with a smart phone that can run Google Translate. You just hold the phone up to the Japanese display with Translate in camera mode and the text is translated in the camera image in real-time.  Most people find this more than good enough. The dash can also be converted in firmware from Japanese to English. GVI in Penrose do this for about $25. They also hold "clinics" around the country where LEAF owners can book in their car for a one-time conversion to English. @RUKI here on GZ can also offer a similar service in converting the dash to English.

The Japanese LEAF has aluminium doors.
The Japanese LEAF can also come with "Lane Assist" - telling the driver if they are drifting out of their lane - which the UK LEAF does not have.
The Japanese LEAF comes with a 3.3kw internal AC charger so maximum AC charge rate is 3.3kw / 16amp. This can fully charge an empty battery in 7-8 hours.  

 

Generally, maps and GPS in either car - even if we had NZ maps - aren't as good as a phone mounted on the dash with Google Maps.  Google is always more up to date and offers more options and services. 

These issues are minor in the grand scheme. Being able to buy a 30kWh LEAF from Japan for around $30k is great value. I could happily use Google Translate to read a few screens if necessary. Once you know the screens, you don't need to use it anymore anyway. 

I own a 2016 UK "Tekna" with a 30kWh battery. Yes, I paid well over $40K for it...and don't regret it for a second. I wanted the bigger battery and the faster AC charging. The car is awesome...and the 30kWh battery has enough range to be both a city car and a cross-country car. In April / May I drove it from Auckland to Bluff and then to Cape Reinga and back to Auckland. I regularly drive it to eastern Bay of Plenty (between 6am and Noon) and / or Napier. It's been to Wellington and back on SH1 as of last week, thanks to all the new fast chargers along that route. 

I do plan to get a Tesla Model 3 when it's available. But until then my LEAF is more than good enough. 



 

 

 

 

Thanks for this detailed reply, it is very helpful to know these points. The fact that the UK model has steel doors and the Japanese one has aluminium doors is interesting and would probably be worth paying extra for.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1840782 7-Aug-2017 20:18
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dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 

 

 

I also talked to Renault a few months ago and it looks like the latest NZ-new Zoe would cost close to $70,000. However, perhaps a firmer (and hopefully lower) price is likely now?

 

It also seems that the 2018 Nissan Leaf model may be sold new by Nissan, but again, I have seen reports which indicate that a price of around $70,000 may be on the cards (perhaps someone with more accurate knowledge could comment on this).

 

I found this statement on the site of a dealer of second-hand EVs and, although it's not a manufacturer's warranty, it does offer some support:

 

We specialize in plug in electric vehicles with the most diverse range of EVs available in New Zealand. We stand behind our Electric Vehicles 100% by offering a 3 year battery warranty from date of registration or a minimum of 12 months regardless of date. You can buy with confidence as all our vehicles are fully inspection by workshop professionals prior to sale and are guaranteed non accident.

 

We pride ourselves on offering the highest standard of service and quality when purchasing your next Electric Vehicle and offer free delivery New Zealand wide

 

However, even if I was to buy an EV from a good company like this, the servicing issue for an EV is something that would worry me. For example, owners of BMW i3's around the world say that it's very important to get your servicing done by BMW as it's only BMW who have the specialist equipment needed to check it out properly. So, if you don't live near a BMW service centre, then I don't think I would trust the local garage to service my i3.

 

Strangely enough, I asked a Honda service centre if they could service a BMW i3 and they said they are doing a few, but I wonder whether they would have all the equipment that BMW has for this task.

 

 


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  Reply # 1840813 7-Aug-2017 21:20
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frednz:

 

We pride ourselves on offering the highest standard of service and quality when purchasing your next Electric Vehicle and offer free delivery New Zealand wide

 

However, even if I was to buy an EV from a good company like this, the servicing issue for an EV is something that would worry me.

 

 

I just wouldn't/can't just take the word of some company as gospel. Honestly, how are they going to support me? Like you say, do they have all the relevant diagnostic equipment and tools?

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1840818 7-Aug-2017 21:38
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dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

So you only buy NZ-new vehicles and don't own or drive any 2nd-hand imports? The 2nd-hand petrol and diesel imports are the majority of cars on NZ roads.....and they are sold with the same kind of warranty you're seeing on second-hand electric imports.

If I read you right, it's not the electric drive-train you're concerned about, it's the manufacturer support for whatever vehicle.

But if you drive any 2nd-hand petrol imports....I'm just not seeing the difference.  If they break, you pay to get them fixed....and that's the same with any imported second-hand EV. You'd pay someone to fix it.

If you want NZ-new, then buy a Hyundai Ioniq, a BMW i3, a Renault Zoe (from Renault), or a Tesla from Tesla. The price range there runs from $59K to $200k. But you have choices.  

 

 

I am not sure if you are just being obtuse for the heck of it or you're genuinely not getting the point. As a new car only buyer (or someone who wouldn't consider anything older than one year old if I would ever buy second hand), I would only purchase from a dealer who gives, at a minimum, a cast iron manufacturer's warranty and has enough obvious track record and demonstrable signs of solvency that I have a reasonable assurance that, were the car to go wrong, I can either hit up the manufacturer or sue the dealer. I don't buy a brand new or near new car and expect to ever have to pay to get my car fixed before I get rid of my car around the 5 to 6 year mark. Most people who buy similar cars that also happen to reside on planet Earth have similar expectations.

 

The kind of dealerships that you are talking about, where someone essentially takes a chance on a deal, knowing that it has zero respect for people's rights and the law, are typically only gambled with by buyers buying much lower cost cars. We earn well above what average families earn combined on any one of our incomes and even we would consider a 25 to 30k purchase (which is what we would typically pay for each car) to be a lot of money. Sorry but I am not willing to gamble with places that aren't backed by the manufacturer and aren't willing to even put on their website their warranty terms, when they are selling cars up to around the 25K mark or more.

 

On the topic of the Zoe, Renault invites me to express an interest. Renault is a niche enough brand -- how much will they support my EV? I am talking about availability of parts and whether all their dealers can support my EV. And when we managed to get two absolutely fantastic cars (Mazda 2 and Subaru Impreza) brand new for less than 60K, EVs just aren't there yet in terms of objective value. And people are obviously talking about cars at a price that most average people can afford here.

 

EVs will soon be excellent across the board in terms of the whole lifecycle of ownership experience -- until we get there, it'd be nice for people to be more sober over some of the issues of (especially) buying the imported ones. 

 



Thanks. You only buy new cars.  :-) 

As you say, there will be more to choose from soon in the way of electric cars. 

I guess the only observation I can make is that people seem to assume that climate change can wait until they can get just what they want in the way they want it. 

At over 410ppm of CO2 already in the atmosphere and more every day...with consequent changes already locked in for the next several centuries.....I'm not sure how or why the frogs don't show more concern about the warming pot they are in.

Even when warned.....

I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if we all don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  The job right now, this minute, is to try to limit the harm we have already set in motion. 

To aid in that, yes, I bought a one year old EV from the UK without a useful warranty. As you point out, such new cars don't really need much maintenance anyway....so I've had no problems....and don't burn any fossil fuels either. 

I'm not trying to annoy you, though I'm probably succeeding. At the same time, the point needs to be made that, really, we can't wait any longer. We've already wasted 30 years doing nothing. 

 

 





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  Reply # 1840824 7-Aug-2017 21:57
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Linuxluver:

 


I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  

 

Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.

 

 


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  Reply # 1840841 7-Aug-2017 22:40
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dejadeadnz:

Linuxluver:



I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  


Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.


 



Sooo many suppositions in that Aussie cos/benefit analysis! As someone who just bought a leaf to replace a 1.6L Corolla I have a 3 and 1/2 year payback period on the TOTAL cost of ownership.

My wife’s 84km return commute (plus sundry travel as it was the’main’ family car for the last 20 years) cost us $2,700-3,400/year in fuel alone (22,000km/year average over the 10 years we ran it for) the $12,000 we bought it for with 50,000kms on the clock has now become 280,000kms and it’s worth around $1,500.

We paid 10,850 for a 2011 Leaf with 11/12 battery bars remaining ... in less than four years (not even counting servicing or road user charges saved) we will have paid for the leaf in fuel savings alone.

That study you referenced mentions about AU$2,000 cost to scrap the battery, Nissan says it will give US$1,000 to recover it, and then charge US$5,500 to replace it with a new 24KWh ‘lizzard’ (Better technology) battery... giving me another 10 years use (to 70% of new chargeability) and this would (should fuel remain at current prices) be paid for AGAIN I only 2-3 years use.

For me, financially alone, the Leaf is a ‘no brainer’ decision...



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  Reply # 1840843 7-Aug-2017 22:41
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dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 


I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  

 

Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.

 

 

Yeah...its someone else's problem. You're not responsible for your own emissions. The other guy's failure - the grid, the farmer, the whatever.....to do enough gives you a free pass. Pass the buck. 

You know what? 

The planet doesn't care......but our kids sure will. 





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  Reply # 1840855 7-Aug-2017 23:20
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Linuxluver:

 

Yeah...its someone else's problem. You're not responsible for your own emissions. The other guy's failure - the grid, the farmer, the whatever.....to do enough gives you a free pass. Pass the buck. 

You know what? 

The planet doesn't care......but our kids sure will. 

 

 

If you think your continuous stream of moral sanctimony is going to do anything to enhance your argument, you're sorely mistaken. More importantly, you actually aren't addressing the reality that a large, immediate shift towards EV just isn't doable in either NZ or elsewhere. Climate change is a serious, urgent problem. It just won't be solved by posturing or going around pointing your metaphorical finger at anyone who doesn't share your borderline fanatical obsession with EVs and calling them planet killer.

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1840952 8-Aug-2017 10:14
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Linuxluver:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

Linuxluver:

 


I guess the good news is that in a few years you'll be able to get exactly what you want.  Then you'll be able to stop burning fossil fuels. 

I'm not being dick, I hope. I really do struggle to understand why people don't understand how serious the situation is already, with CO2 at levels not seen for 3 millions years, never mind several years from now....and our emissions are still rising. We're in a slow motion emergency that just isn't penetrating the public consciousness. 

Change happens slowly. In 50 years it will be a very different world...and we have *already* locked that in even if don't burn another litre of petrol or burn a chunk of coal or flume of gas anywhere on the planet from right this moment.  

 

Sorry to break it to you but NZ's largest greenhouse gas emitting sector between 1990 to 2015 is the agriculture sector. No amount of drastic, immediate move to EVs (nor do we have the infrastructure at the moment to allow this, in any event) is going to substantially solve our emission issues. And people need to stop behaving like NZ is the world - in countries where grid electricity does not come from renewable sources, pretending that EVs are always amazing and clean is the worst kind of greenwashing. It's easy for someone like me (in a high income, DINK situation) to swallow the much higher upfront costs -- but you're seriously going into the territory of being a bit haughty or worse by acting like everyone is placed to just suck up the higher upfront costs. In fact, I have read one article that questions whether a Nissan Leaf is cheaper than an equivalent Corolla on a whole-of-life basis. Now, it's a small sample size and all that but all I am saying is that people really need to be a bit more cautious before simply beating the drum of sanctimony before trying to sell the idea of everyone getting an EV now. Another article actually questions whether the energy-related and greenhouse gas emissions savings of EV are actually as great as typically assumed.

 

 

Yeah...its someone else's problem. You're not responsible for your own emissions. The other guy's failure - the grid, the farmer, the whatever.....to do enough gives you a free pass. Pass the buck. 

You know what? 

The planet doesn't care......but our kids sure will. 

 

 

I agree that we should all be responsible for our own emissions (greenhouse gas that is). Rather than have a long discussion on this forum about this important issue, I have set up a thread here to get people's views.


gzt

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  Reply # 1841484 8-Aug-2017 21:43
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Transport is 20% of NZ emission. Personally I feel that piloting new technology is an essential part of making a change. There are some other human environmental benefits associated like less vehicle noise and probably less brake dust.

We also introduce some unknowns like passenger electromagnetic radiation. Edit: googled up on that. Looks mostly dealt with. Eg; https://ec.europa.eu/programmes/horizon2020/en/news/clean-bill-health-electric-cars. Unless it's part of the united nations population control low sperm count conspiracy..

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  Reply # 1841783 9-Aug-2017 12:09
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New kit for gentle dismantle of the plastic (e.g. Audio, AV, Cluster, etc) had just arrived.

 

I searched and found absolutely NO videos on Youtube for dismantling Nissan Leaf Dash. Time to make one.

 

Whoever has Gen 1 /Gen 2 Leaf with Japanese Cluster in Auckland - how about - you dismantle it while I make the video for Youtube (Greenlane) and then we reflash your cluster into English? P.M. if you keen.





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  Reply # 1841785 9-Aug-2017 12:12
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RUKI:

 

New kit for gentle dismantle of the plastic (e.g. Audio, AV, Cluster, etc) had just arrived.

 

I searched and found absolutely NO videos on Youtube for dismantling Nissan Leaf Dash. Time to make one.

 

Whoever has Gen 1 /Gen 2 Leaf with Japanese Cluster in Auckland - how about - you dismantle it while I make the video for Youtube (Greenlane) and then we reflash your cluster into English? P.M. if you keen.

 



Put this on FB, too, Yuri, if you haven't already. :-) 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

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  Reply # 1842977 9-Aug-2017 17:45
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 Looking at the rumoured details of the 2018 Leaf and I like almost everything apart from the likely price.  If I had been able to get a 2nd hand Leaf with 40kWh for under $30k then I would have made a real effort to increase my budget to step up to that car.  The more powerful motor and the 40kWh battery are very much features that provide important improvements, I wonder what a 2nd hand (maybe 2 year old) car in 5 years (i.e. a 2020 car in 2022) will cost?

 

I have been thinking about the logistics of driving my 24kWh Leaf and how that would compare to driving a 40kWh Leaf and I can see a very marked improvement.  To drive from home to some friends 135km away I would make a 10 minute stop halfway to fast charge and again on the return journey.  This would allow me to drive at normal speeds and very comfortably make the trip with no range anxiety at all.  With a 40kWh battery the same trip would be super easy with no stops for charging required.  With longer trips that I would now do with multiple stops - a 40kWh Leaf would be fine on just one stop for charging and lunch.  With the 41kWh Zoe and the 40kWh Leaf we may be seeing a trend developing - EVs coming with ~40kWh batteries when they once came with ~24kWh batteries.

 

I guess I'll just save money now and see how things develop.


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