Nissan LEAF - General

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Reply # 1855007 29-Aug-2017 23:03

We bought an 11 bar (82%SoH) 24KWh gen1 Leaf for $10,600 about a month ago now... so 16,000 for just the batteries is more like one and a half cars (for 15% battery increase in my case, or 22% in yours 😳)

*edit @ruki would love to get his hands on your vehicle and try replace specific modules for a mere fraction of that price?

Batman

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Reply # 1855020 29-Aug-2017 23:29

How many bars is a new battery?

Cybnate

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Reply # 1855096 30-Aug-2017 08:51

Batman:

How many bars is a new battery?

dirtbag

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Reply # 1855143 30-Aug-2017 09:57

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$16k from Nissan seems hardly surprising given that they were selling th Gen 1 Leaf for $60k a couple of years ago.

I see in a recent post that Blue Cars have been given some government funding to research and trail refurbishing battery packs for the Gen 1 leaf. Looks like quite a good business opportunity as the Leaf EV fleet expands.

I wonder if it is possible to import reasonable second hand battery packs from Japan...

robjg63

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Reply # 1855152 30-Aug-2017 10:20

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dirtbag:

$16k from Nissan seems hardly surprising given that they were selling th Gen 1 Leaf for $60k a couple of years ago.

I see in a recent post that Blue Cars have been given some government funding to research and trail refurbishing battery packs for the Gen 1 leaf. Looks like quite a good business opportunity as the Leaf EV fleet expands.

I wonder if it is possible to import reasonable second hand battery packs from Japan...

$16k just means that Nissan NZ doesnt really want to have anything to do with Leafs.

Though that said - I see e-bike battery packs sell for $700 - $1500 - so considering the capacity of a Leaf battery pack $16k is probably good value! The battery on an e-bike is a fair chunk of the cost of the whole thing. Wonder what %age it is in the cost of a new Leaf...

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RUKI

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Reply # 1855247 30-Aug-2017 13:05

dirtbag:

$16k from Nissan seems hardly surprising given that they were selling th Gen 1 Leaf for $60k a couple of years ago.

I see in a recent post that Blue Cars have been given some government funding to research and trail refurbishing battery packs for the Gen 1 leaf. Looks like quite a good business opportunity as the Leaf EV fleet expands.

I wonder if it is possible to import reasonable second hand battery packs from Japan...

BC's got funding money but those $23K can not not buy them any reasonable tools. Professional High Voltage Battery Analysers or High Voltage Li Chargers cost much much more. I have done my R&D in that field without any funding and have build Pro tools. Currently continue to invest my own money into Nissan /Toyota /Honda /Lexus related "issues" - e.g. traction batteries and other electronics related developments (e.g. Nissan & Toyota Clusters Jap2Eng Conversions or Nissan Leaf Battery ID Programming tools).

Currently what BC can offer is limited to charging individual cell (with one-channel charger) which are out of balance inside the pack. If you are keen to dismantle your pack yourself - you can charge the cell with RC charger for $50.

From the business process perspective it is labor intense, time consuming and unsustainable. Wrecked Leafs is the only source of donor Li batteries in NZ and you would be struggling to find one as you are competing with Solar System owners and other DIY-ers who would use those for e-bykes or camper vans etc.

So won't be cheap or easy to find donor pack and if you find one - average Joe would not be able to test the condition of the pack (i.e. usable remaining capacity).

I am getting inquiries now and then about condition of traction battery pack (e.g. hybrid) one wants to buy from wreck. But wreckers do not have that data and people are not prepared to pay for testing - then good luck with the purchase of untested batteries.

Testing 34 NiMH modules in the Camry hybrid or testing 96 Li cells in Leaf - takes time and cost money, even if result is negative - i.e. low remaining capacity or dead cells.

Space to store those packs - 240kg each cost money. Moving them around and storing on the shelves requires forklift. If you have empty barn / warehouse in Auckland - you may consider filling it with untested batteries. :-)

Import of the pack from Japan is not cheap. Can be done (spoke to friendly dealers) but the price would shock you.

BC have a fleet of rental cars to take care off and their current model allows to rearrange cells between failed packs in the rental fleet. That is a priority for them and as such does not give them any incentive for selling you good modules as there is no inflow of the fresh ones. Same business model with the Battery Clinic - who's priority is to service their fleet of rental Hybrids by rearranging modules from failed Prius.

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Reply # 1855282 30-Aug-2017 13:50

dirtbag:

$16k from Nissan seems hardly surprising given that they were selling th Gen 1 Leaf for $60k a couple of years ago.

I see in a recent post that Blue Cars have been given some government funding to research and trail refurbishing battery packs for the Gen 1 leaf. Looks like quite a good business opportunity as the Leaf EV fleet expands.

I wonder if it is possible to import reasonable second hand battery packs from Japan...

It seems to be possible to buy new modules via Alibaba.....and often all that's required is replacing a flakey module or two.

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Reply # 1855283 30-Aug-2017 13:54

RUKI:

....

Import of the pack from Japan is not cheap. Can be done (spoke to friendly dealers) but the price would shock you.

What do you think of these? At US$120 / module, this looks much more viable. They could replace bad modules in 24kWh LEAF battery packs. Don't know if they are Gen 1 or Gen 2 chemistry. The lack of detail is cause for concern.

Even if they are copies, if the battery itself is reasonable quality, it gets around the source bottleneck. Might be worth trialing a couple / three.

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Batman

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Reply # 1855322 30-Aug-2017 15:22

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Nevermind if the life of the battery is as good, but will it spontaneously combust or electrocute ?

MikeB4

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Reply # 1855327 30-Aug-2017 15:32

Batman: Nevermind if the life of the battery is as good, but will it spontaneously combust or electrocute ?

Only if you do this to your car...

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Reply # 1855395 30-Aug-2017 16:48

MikeB4:
Batman: Nevermind if the life of the battery is as good, but will it spontaneously combust or electrocute ?

Only if you do this to your car...

If 98% of scientists agree, then it will be true.

RUKI

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Reply # 1855531 30-Aug-2017 21:43

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Linuxluver:

... It seems to be possible to buy new modules via Alibaba.....and often all that's required is replacing a flakey module or two.

Never buy batteries from PRC. IMO

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leaflearner

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Reply # 1855819 31-Aug-2017 11:12

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First, an apology. I'm no geek and don't have the ability to become one. I've joined the forum not to share worthwhile knowledge but largely to ask questions of the contributors to this excellent LEAF thread, which I discovered only a few days after placing an order with a dealer (one on the "reputable" list fortunately) to import for me a 2016 Japanese 30kWh X model.

My situation is I wanted to upgrade from a 1999 manual Nissan Pulsar to a zero emissions vehicle that will serve me well in retirement doing mainly short journeys around Auckland but several journeys a year to Taupo. I have one-car garaging only and will somewhat regretfully have to farewell the ageing Pulsar.

I thought I'd done the necessary homework on the "range anxiety" issue, but having now read all 60 plus pages on this thread, I'm not so sure. Currently, I drive from north of Auckland to Taupo with one refuelling stop in Cambridge. I didn't accept that the 30kWh LEAF has the 200km range frequently mentioned in the headings of dealers' advertisements; I did accept the "realistic" view of various online reviewers that the 30kWh's true range was between 160km and 190km. That's okay then, I thought -- a first recharge at Te Kauwhata, then a top-up to 100% in Cambridge for the remaining 134km to Taupo, leaving me with a margin of 26km to spare out of the 160km.

This gave me peace of mind till I came across a message here from Linuxluver about an Auckland to Wellington trip. The Cambridge-Taupo leg was "horrendous" apparently, even for an experienced EV driver using all the tricks like trailing behind big trucks (ugh!!).

The planned fast chargers at Tirau and Tokoroa are still not in place -- just hoped for "by the end of the year", same as they were in 2016 I believe.

Has anyone else here besides Linuxluver tackled the Cambridge-Taupo journey in a 30kWh LEAF and what was their experience please? Should I be banking on the chance of a successful expedition in early November in my near-new LEAF? What pre-arrangements can be made to avert disappointment and huge inconvenience? What do you do if you run out of charge when the surrounding terrain is nothing but forestry blocks?

gulfa

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Reply # 1855879 31-Aug-2017 12:05

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leaflearner:

First, an apology. I'm no geek and don't have the ability to become one. I've joined the forum not to share worthwhile knowledge but largely to ask questions of the contributors to this excellent LEAF thread, which I discovered only a few days after placing an order with a dealer (one on the "reputable" list fortunately) to import for me a 2016 Japanese 30kWh X model.

My situation is I wanted to upgrade from a 1999 manual Nissan Pulsar to a zero emissions vehicle that will serve me well in retirement doing mainly short journeys around Auckland but several journeys a year to Taupo. I have one-car garaging only and will somewhat regretfully have to farewell the ageing Pulsar.

I thought I'd done the necessary homework on the "range anxiety" issue, but having now read all 60 plus pages on this thread, I'm not so sure. Currently, I drive from north of Auckland to Taupo with one refuelling stop in Cambridge. I didn't accept that the 30kWh LEAF has the 200km range frequently mentioned in the headings of dealers' advertisements; I did accept the "realistic" view of various online reviewers that the 30kWh's true range was between 160km and 190km. That's okay then, I thought -- a first recharge at Te Kauwhata, then a top-up to 100% in Cambridge for the remaining 134km to Taupo, leaving me with a margin of 26km to spare out of the 160km.

This gave me peace of mind till I came across a message here from Linuxluver about an Auckland to Wellington trip. The Cambridge-Taupo leg was "horrendous" apparently, even for an experienced EV driver using all the tricks like trailing behind big trucks (ugh!!).

The planned fast chargers at Tirau and Tokoroa are still not in place -- just hoped for "by the end of the year", same as they were in 2016 I believe.

Has anyone else here besides Linuxluver tackled the Cambridge-Taupo journey in a 30kWh LEAF and what was their experience please? Should I be banking on the chance of a successful expedition in early November in my near-new LEAF? What pre-arrangements can be made to avert disappointment and huge inconvenience? What do you do if you run out of charge when the surrounding terrain is nothing but forestry blocks?

Have done the Cambridge to Taupo (in my 30KW Leaf to) Elevation and head wind plus temperature all play a part in reducing the range. I just got there with about 8kms left. Until Tokoroa comes into play I would recommend

via Rotorua. I am shortly going to do the trip again now the weather is improving. Will probably keep my speed to Tokoroa around 90kms I also want to see what it is like returning from Taupo to Cambrige / Hamilton will probably top up to 100% at Taupo. Enjoy your car they are wonderful to drive. I use to be a real petrol head.

Batman

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Reply # 1855971 31-Aug-2017 14:41

leaflearner:

First, an apology. I'm no geek and don't have the ability to become one. I've joined the forum not to share worthwhile knowledge but largely to ask questions of the contributors to this excellent LEAF thread, which I discovered only a few days after placing an order with a dealer (one on the "reputable" list fortunately) to import for me a 2016 Japanese 30kWh X model.

My situation is I wanted to upgrade from a 1999 manual Nissan Pulsar to a zero emissions vehicle that will serve me well in retirement doing mainly short journeys around Auckland but several journeys a year to Taupo. I have one-car garaging only and will somewhat regretfully have to farewell the ageing Pulsar.

I thought I'd done the necessary homework on the "range anxiety" issue, but having now read all 60 plus pages on this thread, I'm not so sure. Currently, I drive from north of Auckland to Taupo with one refuelling stop in Cambridge. I didn't accept that the 30kWh LEAF has the 200km range frequently mentioned in the headings of dealers' advertisements; I did accept the "realistic" view of various online reviewers that the 30kWh's true range was between 160km and 190km. That's okay then, I thought -- a first recharge at Te Kauwhata, then a top-up to 100% in Cambridge for the remaining 134km to Taupo, leaving me with a margin of 26km to spare out of the 160km.

This gave me peace of mind till I came across a message here from Linuxluver about an Auckland to Wellington trip. The Cambridge-Taupo leg was "horrendous" apparently, even for an experienced EV driver using all the tricks like trailing behind big trucks (ugh!!).

The planned fast chargers at Tirau and Tokoroa are still not in place -- just hoped for "by the end of the year", same as they were in 2016 I believe.

Has anyone else here besides Linuxluver tackled the Cambridge-Taupo journey in a 30kWh LEAF and what was their experience please? Should I be banking on the chance of a successful expedition in early November in my near-new LEAF? What pre-arrangements can be made to avert disappointment and huge inconvenience? What do you do if you run out of charge when the surrounding terrain is nothing but forestry blocks?

You should also invest in a crystal ball to ensure there are no detours or traffic congestion that might put you out of range ...

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