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68 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1896472 6-Nov-2017 23:34
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RUKI:

 

 

 

Managing Battery Temperature is an issue with all traction batteries in all cars and with all chemistries. I would only assume that Leaf was designed to be an urban short-distance type vehicle

 

 

 

 

I just watched the documentary, 'the revenge of the electric car'.  Thats exactly what the CEO of Nissan said, he said they don't care about range anxiety, they are targeting the urban user.

 

You can take your Leaf on a long trip with lots of charging hops but that is not what its designed for.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1896514 7-Nov-2017 06:51
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MarkH67:

 

It will be interesting to see how the thermal management system on the 60kWh batteries works, might be a year before we know the details though.

 



This article about Tesla thermal management is useful. The Tesla system aims to keep the battery at a temperature no higher than 45C. In a LEAF, that's halfway through the range of the tenth battery temperature bar. It's also around the temperature where the battery starts to shed heat faster. Also worth noting is the LEAF battery has three modules and only one of them tends to get very hot. The other two are almost always several degrees C behind.

I've been using this knowledge to manage my own battery heat. Once I see the hottest pack get to 45C in LeafSpy Pro, I'll either stop for a few minutes or - better still, if possible - drop my speed to around 75kph. This seems to be approximately the optimal speed for low power draw but fast external airflow. The battery can lose 1C every 5 minutes at this speed (outside temp typically 15C or less when I reach this temp range, so will likely slow down a bit if warmer)....and you're still rolling. 

Basically, I don't worry about battery temps under 46C....and that's well into the 10th battery temp bar. 

I have a 30kWh LEAF and they - I've been told - have chemistry more like the Tesla batteries. I've made the assumption that they likely have similar temperature vulnerability profiles. 





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  Reply # 1896515 7-Nov-2017 06:54
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happyfunball:

 

I just watched the documentary, 'the revenge of the electric car'.  Thats exactly what the CEO of Nissan said, he said they don't care about range anxiety, they are targeting the urban user.

 

You can take your Leaf on a long trip with lots of charging hops but that is not what its designed for.

 



Oh well. Works fine anyway. :-)  





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  Reply # 1896516 7-Nov-2017 07:00
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tripper1000:

 

Driving etiquette.

 

Could I please remind Leaf Drivers to be mindful of the times they choose to drive slowly and/or smoothly.

 

In a big queue of cars last Sunday evening, behind a slow campervan on SH1 between Wellsford and Auckland I was following a silver Leaf driven by a blond lady. She was driving super smooth, however was keeping a following distance that stretched to 100's and 100's of meters and out of site of the camper much of the time.  The problem arose at overtaking lanes, where her following distance was so great that traffic could not overtake the Leaf and the slow camper. She was therefore forming her own unique snail trail, independent of the camper. In desperation, some drivers were passing her beyond the end of the overtaking lanes, rather than waiting for another 2x overtaking lanes to get by, which was unsafe for her, them and everyone on the road. If she had have simply started closing the gap up when passing the "Overtaking Lane 2 KM" signs her slowness/smoothness would not have impeded anyone else, and she would have only sacrificed a few watts for a few Kms.

 

This is the second time I've encounter a Leaf impleading traffic on SH1 in the last 2 weeks alone. The danger (in my mind) is that if they regularly feature at the front of tail-backs they will gain a bad reputation for being slow or badly driven and ordinary people will not want to own them for fear of being tarred with the same brush. We don't want them to be stereo-typed similar to Skylines - a car that despite being technologically brilliant, no self respecting citizen would be seen dead in because they have a reputation for being driven by bad drivers.

 



I totally agree. That's annoying. If I have to go slower for some reason I absolutely will pull over within a minute or 3 of anyone catching up to me....and most often I will actually pull over as soon as I get a feel for their speed of approach before they even catch up to me (if the road isn't too busy, so it's worth it). They can do their speed...and I can do mine. 

But if the road is busy and and the speeds are at 100kph.....then I do 100kph and make plans to charge as required. I've thought all this out beforehand. If I know the road is a fast one and it's busy I'll either seek out another route or travel well off-peak if possible when the road isn't busy. Recently, I've been travelling from Opotiki to Auckland and starting out around 7pm. Most week nights the highways are very quiet at that time and even quieter as it gets later. 

Thankfully the fast chargers are numerous enough I can also just do 110kph all the way home if i want to and not really worry about speed or where to charge. 

But this is an experience and technique thing. Anyone low on petrol would / should do the same. But behind any steering wheel of any vehicle there are always those people who don't think very much and the world is all about them. I just learned to relax a bit......I'll get there. 



 





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  Reply # 1896522 7-Nov-2017 07:26
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The November 2017 issue of Consumer magazine rates the Nissan LEAF as the most reliable car in NZ of 23 brands and 69 models, with a 97% satisfaction rating.  

That would certainly match my own experience. No issues at all in 17 months of driving a LEAF. Just keep the windscreen wiper fluid topped up and the tyres good. 





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k14

547 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896563 7-Nov-2017 08:36
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Any idea what the criteria is for a "major problem"? 4% sounds quite high if you ask me. Really the only major problem I can think of is battery degrading faster than expected, but depending on your expectations the normal degradation could be could be perceived as a major problem.


115 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1896565 7-Nov-2017 08:39
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I was wondering what EFI was in an Nissan LEAF it is a 2015 Model I do know what it means in a ICE car

 

Additional Features :

Air Bag(s)
All Electrics
Approved Used
Digital Dash
EFI
Reversing Camera
Special
Used
C­ondition: EXCELLENT
Interior Details: FABRIC
Seats: 5


k14

547 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896569 7-Nov-2017 08:43
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numberonekiwi:

 

I was wondering what EFI was in an Nissan LEAF it is a 2015 Model I do know what it means in a ICE car

 

Additional Features :

Air Bag(s)
All Electrics
Approved Used
Digital Dash
EFI
Reversing Camera
Special
Used
C­ondition: EXCELLENT
Interior Details: FABRIC
Seats: 5

 

 

I've seen it in one or two trademe adverts too. My guess is they copied and pasted from another ad and forgot to remove it. EFI is electronic fuel injection. Pretty sure the LEAF doesn't have it.... I was going to ask a smartarse question but didn't get round to it. Worth asking though. If its an indicator as to how much attention they put into the cars on their yard I'd probably be a bit concerned.




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  Reply # 1896589 7-Nov-2017 09:35
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k14:

 

Any idea what the criteria is for a "major problem"? 4% sounds quite high if you ask me. Really the only major problem I can think of is battery degrading faster than expected, but depending on your expectations the normal degradation could be could be perceived as a major problem.

 



Consumer says: 

 

Reliability

 

We wanted to know about reliability problems that happened in the past year. Serious faults would potentially cause a breakdown, take a car out of service and be more expensive to repair than other problem areas. These include engine rebuilds or replacement, engine cooling, transmission rebuilds or major repairs, and drive system failures. Major faults could still cause breakdowns and result in significant repair costs and time off the road. We included engine problems, transmission problems, fuel system and emissions, electrical system, climate system, suspension and steering, brakes, exhaust and paint. We also asked about minor faults. While less critical to roadworthiness, they may still need repair or affect owner satisfaction. They cover body integrity (noise and leaks), body hardware (power or manual), power equipment and accessories, and in-car electronics.

 

We only analyse makes or models that have received more than 30 samples. When we calculate reliability, we account for vehicles with higher- or lower-than-average mileage, as cars with higher mileage are more likely to have problems.





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  Reply # 1896593 7-Nov-2017 09:38
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k14:

 

Any idea what the criteria is for a "major problem"? 4% sounds quite high if you ask me. Really the only major problem I can think of is battery degrading faster than expected, but depending on your expectations the normal degradation could be could be perceived as a major problem.

 



Could be the 12v battery failing. They need replacing every 2-3 years (like most other cars). You can't start the car without it. 





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611 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896597 7-Nov-2017 09:42
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happyfunball:

 

RUKI:

 

 

 

Managing Battery Temperature is an issue with all traction batteries in all cars and with all chemistries. I would only assume that Leaf was designed to be an urban short-distance type vehicle

 

 

 

 

I just watched the documentary, 'the revenge of the electric car'.  Thats exactly what the CEO of Nissan said, he said they don't care about range anxiety, they are targeting the urban user.

 

You can take your Leaf on a long trip with lots of charging hops but that is not what its designed for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same comment has also been made about the BMWi3, it's basically a city car, and although it's very expensive, for some people, it's not comfortable enough, or large enough, for long journeys that would require frequent recharging stops.

 

I found the comments from Grant Dixon (replied to by many others) on Facebook about the temperature of the Nissan Leaf going into the red after the 3rd fast charge in a day, to be very interesting.

 

He also mentioned that

 

"to manage temp on the return we did 5 fast charges, the last 2 until the temp tipped into red. I then turned the car off for 5 mins & it fell back into white. It did mean an extra charge though."

 

You have to admire owners of short-range EVs going on long trips, but it's certainly not for me. I would just buy an EV for use around town and have a much better car for the long trips.

 

 




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  Reply # 1896631 7-Nov-2017 09:56
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frednz:

 

 

 

I found the comments from Grant Dixon (replied to by many others) on Facebook about the temperature of the Nissan Leaf going into the red after the 3rd fast charge in a day, to be very interesting.

 

He also mentioned that

 

"to manage temp on the return we did 5 fast charges, the last 2 until the temp tipped into red. I then turned the car off for 5 mins & it fell back into white. It did mean an extra charge though."

 

You have to admire owners of short-range EVs going on long trips, but it's certainly not for me. I would just buy an EV for use around town and have a much better car for the long trips.

 

 

Some people are committed to zero CO2 emissions more than others. That's all it is. Absolutely one can avoid 2-3 10 minute stops to charge if you don't mind emitting the 80kg of CO2 the average car will release from 35L of petrol on a drive from Auckland to Wellington. (edited - sorry mixed up pounds / gallon and kg / litre in my first attempt). 

Every car......except those that don't burn fossil fuels. 

I know I keep banging on about this, but it really does matter. Ignoring it is now actually killing people.....and one day that could be your kids or grandkids. 

Yesterday was the best day to start driving an EV......but today will have to do. 





____________________________________________________
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611 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896649 7-Nov-2017 10:16
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

I found the comments from Grant Dixon (replied to by many others) on Facebook about the temperature of the Nissan Leaf going into the red after the 3rd fast charge in a day, to be very interesting.

 

He also mentioned that

 

"to manage temp on the return we did 5 fast charges, the last 2 until the temp tipped into red. I then turned the car off for 5 mins & it fell back into white. It did mean an extra charge though."

 

You have to admire owners of short-range EVs going on long trips, but it's certainly not for me. I would just buy an EV for use around town and have a much better car for the long trips.

 

 

Some people are committed to zero CO2 emissions more than others. That's all it is. Absolutely one can avoid 2-3 10 minute stops to charge if you don't mind emitting the 80kg of CO2 the average car will release from 35L of petrol on a drive from Auckland to Wellington. (edited - sorry mixed up pounds / gallon and kg / litre in my first attempt). 

Every car......except those that don't burn fossil fuels. 

I know I keep banging on about this, but it really does matter. Ignoring it is now actually killing people.....and one day that could be your kids or grandkids. 

Yesterday was the best day to start driving an EV......but today will have to do. 

 

 

True, but this would rule out importing any more petrol vehicles or even hybrid EVs. Not even the new "greenish" Government is anywhere near doing that yet. So, be patient, give it time, and pressure the Government to ban the imports of all ICE vehicles as soon as possible!

 

 


k14

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896659 7-Nov-2017 10:30
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frednz:

 

 

 

True, but this would rule out importing any more petrol vehicles or even hybrid EVs. Not even the new "greenish" Government is anywhere near doing that yet. So, be patient, give it time, and pressure the Government to ban the imports of all ICE vehicles as soon as possible!

 

 

That would be an even worse idea than doing nothing. It will just mean people will continue to drive the older cars they already own, rather than upgrading to a 5 or 10 year newer car. Let natural attrition run its course, the slight hand the government has used to push ev sales (no RUC) is all that is needed. If anything extend that to promote EV's rather than any negative ICE sanctions or taxes.

 

It seems LEAF's are in very high demand at the moment. When I first started looking (in mid September) there were over 550 listed on trademe. Now there are only 375 listed. They are selling them slower than they are importing them. I think I bought mine right at the perfect time. Petrol has risen a bit in the last 4 weeks with the exchange rate dropping and there doesn't seem to be much chance of the exchange rate recovering in the near term.


IcI

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1896735 7-Nov-2017 12:36
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k14: ... there were over 550 listed on trademe. Now there are only 375 listed. They are selling them slower than they are importing them. I think I bought mine right at the perfect time. Petrol has risen a bit in the last 4 weeks ...

 

     

  1. slower ??? or faster? If supply has dropped (550 down to 375) then didn't demand increase? Thus, they are selling them faster than they can import them?
  2. As stated before, yesterday was the right day to buy an EV. Especially with the additional 10c fuel tax proposed by the Auckland City Council.

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