Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | ... | 113
1024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 221


  Reply # 1901102 15-Nov-2017 09:41
Send private message quote this post

Re: Leaf Batteries from USA. Straight from the boys who are importing Leafs from USA to [let say] "Europe" - there are quite a number of flood suffered Leafs in Florida, so beware of offers for the battery which may look too cheap to resist...





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


681 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 86


  Reply # 1901118 15-Nov-2017 10:08
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 


I'm very much in support of electric vehicles and everyone doing all they can for the environment, but buying an EV that only does 50-60km must certainly have very limited appeal. This is very much a second vehicle and for some people buying an EV with that range could pose a safety risk if the vehicle runs out of charge when it has to be used in an emergency.



Using that logic, anyone without a car is at risk. :-)  

Now that the vehicle has done 112,000 km, I think that paying $8,900 for an EV with such low range is very expensive when you compare it with what you can get for a petrol vehicle of similar age and mileage. If this vehicle had a range of at least 200km, then the price tag of $8,900 might be sensible for some buyers.  


That's your view. No problem there. 

But in absolute dollar terms, if this car meets the needs of someone...and remember in Auckland, at least, they are never more then 10km from a fast charger and rarely more than 1km from a 3-pin plug even in a rural area...then it's "affordable"....and you don't need to be wealthy. 

That was all. I won't be buying it. The range isn't what I need......but it will meet someone's needs. 

You can't really compare it to an ICE car on price alone as they emit CO2, CO and much else besides. They need petrol. Their service costs are likely to be higher.  Well....you can try, but it's not really apples for apples. 

 

 

When you say "anyone without a car is at risk", this probably isn't as "risky" as running out of charge on a motorway in a low range LEAF in the middle of a wet night while trying to urgently get someone to hospital!

 

When you say "ICE cars emit CO2", that's true, but so does flying in planes, owning livestock etc etc etc. But, for $8,900 you can buy a nice family car with 50,000km on the clock that has a range of 700km. So, it all comes down to whether you are prepared to own 2 cars or not. Most (sensible) people aren't prepared to travel from Auckland to Wellington in a Leaf that has a range of 70km, so it would be sensible (IMHO) to own an ICE car to use on your long trips if your EV has very limited range.

 

 


 
 
 
 


237 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 57


  Reply # 1901135 15-Nov-2017 10:30
Send private message quote this post

Does anyone else find that the various thermometers on the leaf read low? I'm finding that the outside temperature always seems a little on the low side. For example, was called into work at 3am on Monday night, and the leaf told me it was 8 degrees, where several other temperature readers in the area (North Shore) only went as low as 11 degrees. Also when I get in the car and it's been in the sun so is quite warm, I'll put the AC to auto and it goes to the heating mode! Even though the thermostat is set to 23 degrees ish.

 

 


109 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1901161 15-Nov-2017 11:26
Send private message quote this post

Jeeves:

 

Does anyone else find that the various thermometers on the leaf read low? I'm finding that the outside temperature always seems a little on the low side. For example, was called into work at 3am on Monday night, and the leaf told me it was 8 degrees, where several other temperature readers in the area (North Shore) only went as low as 11 degrees. Also when I get in the car and it's been in the sun so is quite warm, I'll put the AC to auto and it goes to the heating mode! Even though the thermostat is set to 23 degrees ish.

 

 

 

 

Yes, they are out to lunch.  I don't know where they are though or when they are updated, if you find out please let us know.  Might be an issue with their placement we can correct.

 

 


109 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1901177 15-Nov-2017 11:37
Send private message quote this post

frednz:

 

I'm very much in support of electric vehicles and everyone doing all they can for the environment, but buying an EV that only does 50-60km must certainly have very limited appeal. This is very much a second vehicle and for some people buying an EV with that range could pose a safety risk if the vehicle runs out of charge when it has to be used in an emergency.

 

Now that the vehicle has done 112,000 km, I think that paying $8,900 for an EV with such low range is very expensive when you compare it with what you can get for a petrol vehicle of similar age and mileage. If this vehicle had a range of at least 200km, then the price tag of $8,900 might be sensible for some buyers.

 

 

1. Its only expensive if petrol is free.  If petrol costs money, then its a question of KM driven vs fuel economy of your combustion vehicle.  Its already cost-effective in the US to have electric vehicles for some people, and they pay much less for petrol than we do.  I agree that if the cost of petrol is taken out of the equation it would be very expensive to own an EV.

 

2. Its not a safety risk unless you live more than 50km away from a hospital *and* have no phone to call 111 in the event of an emergency (ie. you are effectively the designated emergency responder).  Its also a safety risk in that case to have less than a quarter tank of petrol in your combustion engine vehicle.  And lets be honest, having only one combustion vehicle would be foolish as well, as cars do break down.  If you live in an urban setting its probably very cost effective, but only if you count the cost of petrol!

 

 


681 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 86


  Reply # 1901233 15-Nov-2017 12:57
Send private message quote this post

happyfunball:

 

frednz:

 

I'm very much in support of electric vehicles and everyone doing all they can for the environment, but buying an EV that only does 50-60km must certainly have very limited appeal. This is very much a second vehicle and for some people buying an EV with that range could pose a safety risk if the vehicle runs out of charge when it has to be used in an emergency.

 

Now that the vehicle has done 112,000 km, I think that paying $8,900 for an EV with such low range is very expensive when you compare it with what you can get for a petrol vehicle of similar age and mileage. If this vehicle had a range of at least 200km, then the price tag of $8,900 might be sensible for some buyers.

 

 

1. Its only expensive if petrol is free.  If petrol costs money, then its a question of KM driven vs fuel economy of your combustion vehicle.  Its already cost-effective in the US to have electric vehicles for some people, and they pay much less for petrol than we do.  I agree that if the cost of petrol is taken out of the equation it would be very expensive to own an EV.

 

2. Its not a safety risk unless you live more than 50km away from a hospital *and* have no phone to call 111 in the event of an emergency (ie. you are effectively the designated emergency responder).  Its also a safety risk in that case to have less than a quarter tank of petrol in your combustion engine vehicle.  And lets be honest, having only one combustion vehicle would be foolish as well, as cars do break down.  If you live in an urban setting its probably very cost effective, but only if you count the cost of petrol!

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's a pity that you can't take petrol "out of the equation" for an ICE vehicle! But, quite apart from the cost of petrol, it's impossible in NZ to buy a NZ-new EV in the $25,000 - $60,000 range. That makes NZ-new EVs very expensive and forces people into the second-hand market, which is a pity. Even the second-hand prices of a lot of EVs are a lot higher than buying a brand new "equivalent" ICE vehicle, so this is holding back sales of EVs considerably (IMHO).

 

Now, in the above "emergency" example, if you have only a quarter of a tank of petrol in your ICE vehicle, you are likely to have a range of at least 150 km, which isn't too bad. But, if your 80km range Nissan Leaf only has one-quarter if its charge left, then you are in a lot worse situation because you only have 20km of range left.

 

If I owned an EV which had only 60 - 70km of range left, I would also want to sell it! In fact, I'd be inclined to give it away rather than trying to buy a replacement battery for it (particularly if the appropriate replacement battery doesn't have the range of the latest model LEAF). I think the aim of EV owners should be to trade-up as often as possible so that they aren't left with EVs whose range makes them only good for the scrap heap.

 

 

 

 


1540 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 534

Subscriber

  Reply # 1901266 15-Nov-2017 13:47
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Tesla were selling powerwalls with a 7kW capacity so there is a market for battery of that size.

A leaf comes with 24kW battery so if capacity is only 50% after many kms it should still have enough charge to be useful as a home storage device?

2337 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 622


  Reply # 1901290 15-Nov-2017 14:13
Send private message quote this post

afe66: Tesla were selling powerwalls with a 7kW capacity so there is a market for battery of that size.

A leaf comes with 24kW battery so if capacity is only 50% after many kms it should still have enough charge to be useful as a home storage device?

 

 

 

Yep, nissan announced this middle of last year already ;)

 

 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/15/nissan-recycles-ev-batteries-home-energy-storage/

 

 


2075 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 228

Subscriber

  Reply # 1901318 15-Nov-2017 14:46
Send private message quote this post

frednz:it's impossible in NZ to buy a NZ-new EV in the $25,000 - $60,000 range.

 

NZ new Hyundai Ioniq $59,990.  The EV market is changing.

 

 

 

 


1024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 221


  Reply # 1901366 15-Nov-2017 15:57
Send private message quote this post

afe66: Tesla were selling powerwalls with a 7kW capacity so there is a market for battery of that size.

A leaf comes with 24kW battery so if capacity is only 50% after many kms it should still have enough charge to be useful as a home storage device?

 

Absolutely. Tesla uses 18650 cells in the PowerWall - made by Panasonic in China (I read somewhere). Made in China vs Made in Japan is a big difference in quality.

 

When my PowerWall will loose it's capacity to become unusable - I will be looking at replacement from Japanese made EV traction battery.





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


410 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 77


  Reply # 1901372 15-Nov-2017 16:13
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Tesla has built the worlds largest lithium production facility in the world, think it's a joint venture with Panasonic but it's based in the US.


109 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 41


  Reply # 1901375 15-Nov-2017 16:19
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

frednz:

 

 

 

If I owned an EV which had only 60 - 70km of range left, I would also want to sell it! In fact, I'd be inclined to give it away rather than trying to buy a replacement battery for it (particularly if the appropriate replacement battery doesn't have the range of the latest model LEAF). I think the aim of EV owners should be to trade-up as often as possible so that they aren't left with EVs whose range makes them only good for the scrap heap.

 

 

Its true that an old battery has less value, but it is also true that the burned petrol turned into toxic gasses is also of limited (some would say, negative) value.  So take your pick, its still a question of value for dollar and I maintain it can be good value financially to have an EV.  Not for everyone, but for many.  As time goes on, perhaps a majority of people.  Thats without caring an iota for your fellow man and the planet, purely financially.  Many EV owners have crunched the numbers and they are surprising.  I didn't think I was doing much driving with my old Honda Accord, but it turns out i was spending $3500 a year in petrol!  That adds up fast!

 

Lets do the math quickly:  

 

If an EV saves me $3500 (urban lifestyle, live close to work) a year in petrol, and a new battery costs me $15000 (worst case scenario, prices do not go down, new battery from authorised dealer), I need to keep the battery for 15000/3500 = 4.3 years to be ahead!  

 

A Leaf (or any other EV) does not have a 'battery', it has many many small 'cells' conceptually packaged together by a BMS computer.  Its possible to replace individual cells, which can be cost effective. Thats what Nissan in Wellington told me, they can replace individual battery modules, which is more cost effective. Thats were we are at with the Leaf in NZ now, but I digress.  It makes sense for me financially and I don't think I'm a rare or special unicorn.

 

Now let me climb on the pulpit: NZ has a distorted market due to a lack of emissions testing, there is no penalty here to polluting as much as you like.  Having a fuel 'efficient' car consists of saving money at the pump, not limiting toxic gas emissions or even CO2.  In many markets older cars become more expensive as the odometer advances, this is because older engines emit more than when they were new.  In Canada, where I'm familiar with the emissions testing, its quite stressful for owners of older vehicles because they can be suddenly saddled with up to $1500 in fines/repairs just for failing an emissions test.   California is similar, you can drive older (called "affordable" in NZ) cars but you'll pay for the privilege.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Circumspice
390 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 58

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1901384 15-Nov-2017 16:59
Send private message quote this post

@happyfunball

 

Interesting comparing information from different Nissan dealerships.

 

When I asked Chch Nissan ~2016, they said they could replace individual modules. When I asked recently, they said they could only do entire packs, because of constraints from what Nissan NZ/JP were willing to allow.


681 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 86


  Reply # 1901396 15-Nov-2017 17:24
Send private message quote this post

happyfunball:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

If I owned an EV which had only 60 - 70km of range left, I would also want to sell it! In fact, I'd be inclined to give it away rather than trying to buy a replacement battery for it (particularly if the appropriate replacement battery doesn't have the range of the latest model LEAF). I think the aim of EV owners should be to trade-up as often as possible so that they aren't left with EVs whose range makes them only good for the scrap heap.

 

 

Its true that an old battery has less value, but it is also true that the burned petrol turned into toxic gasses is also of limited (some would say, negative) value.  So take your pick, its still a question of value for dollar and I maintain it can be good value financially to have an EV.  Not for everyone, but for many.  As time goes on, perhaps a majority of people.  Thats without caring an iota for your fellow man and the planet, purely financially.  Many EV owners have crunched the numbers and they are surprising.  I didn't think I was doing much driving with my old Honda Accord, but it turns out i was spending $3500 a year in petrol!  That adds up fast!

 

Lets do the math quickly:  

 

If an EV saves me $3500 (urban lifestyle, live close to work) a year in petrol, and a new battery costs me $15000 (worst case scenario, prices do not go down, new battery from authorised dealer), I need to keep the battery for 15000/3500 = 4.3 years to be ahead!  

 

 

Yes, it's great for you (and the environment) if you can save $3500 a year in petrol, but I would offset against this the cost of electricity in charging your EV to go an equivalent distance. What do you think the cost of this electricity would be for you?

 

I think the depreciation of an EV is a very large factor to consider because the price of a NZ-new EV starts at around $60,000, and you can pay $40,000 for a second-hand Nissan Leaf that's been imported from the UK. With no NZ Govt subsidies on the purchase of new vehicles, they are just too expensive when compared with equivalent ICE models, even considering the savings you mention.

 

As for replacing your battery, I would rather try to trade-in your existing EV for a higher range model if that is possible. I think you will experience less depreciation that way.


2337 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 622


  Reply # 1901417 15-Nov-2017 18:53
Send private message quote this post

For the 20,000km/y we do, @$3/100kms (if charged at home every time) that’s still a measly $600/year in electricity so no big deal there either?

Since Counties Power (and Vector) have so many free charging stations available, someone with the 20mins/day to kill while they charge could easily cut that in 1/2 or even 1/4 the cost too... for now anyway.

1 | ... | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | ... | 113
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Intel reimagines data centre storage with new 3D NAND SSDs
Posted 16-Feb-2018 15:21


Ground-breaking business programme begins in Hamilton
Posted 16-Feb-2018 10:18


Government to continue search for first Chief Technology Officer
Posted 12-Feb-2018 20:30


Time to take Apple’s iPad Pro seriously
Posted 12-Feb-2018 16:54


New Fujifilm X-A5 brings selfie features to mirrorless camera
Posted 9-Feb-2018 09:12


D-Link ANZ expands connected smart home with new HD Wi-Fi cameras
Posted 9-Feb-2018 09:01


Dragon Professional for Mac V6: Near perfect dictation
Posted 9-Feb-2018 08:26


OPPO announces R11s with claims to be the picture perfect smartphone
Posted 2-Feb-2018 13:28


Vocus Communications wins a place on the TaaS panel
Posted 26-Jan-2018 15:16


SwipedOn raises $1 million capital
Posted 26-Jan-2018 15:15


Slingshot offers unlimited gigabit fibre for under a ton
Posted 25-Jan-2018 13:51


Spark doubles down on wireless broadband
Posted 24-Jan-2018 15:44


New Zealand's IT industry in 2018 and beyond
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:50


Introducing your new workplace headache: Gen Z
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:45


Jucy set to introduce electric campervan fleet
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.