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Dingbatt
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  #2096984 26-Sep-2018 16:47
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SaltyNZ, Can't quite understand why you think the eCVT in Toyota/Lexus is so complicated. While pure electric is obviously the simplest, and a 'grind and find' manual the next simplest, the remainder of gearboxes, be they CVT, Dual Clutch or torque converter automatics are all electronically controlled, extremely complicated and maintenance nightmares if something goes wrong. The eCVT has two electric motors/generators running in epicyclic gears attached to an ICE (modified Atkinson cycle). It has no gearshifts, the ICE runs at optimum power settings when it is running. So less moving parts than most other modern gearboxes.
I didn't buy my hybrid for green reasons, I bought it because I like the tech and how smoothly it drives. And with petrol heading for $2.50/ litre I'm glad that I have a 5 seat family sedan that uses 5l/100km and can drive nonstop for 1200km on one tank of gas.
The more I save on fuel the quicker I can save up to buy a BEV.




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SaltyNZ
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  #2096986 26-Sep-2018 16:52
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Do you often drive non-stop for 1200km? I'm usually more than ready for a break after about 300km.





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SaltyNZ
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  #2096994 26-Sep-2018 17:05
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Dingbatt: The eCVT has two electric motors/generators running in epicyclic gears attached to an ICE (modified Atkinson cycle). It has no gearshifts, the ICE runs at optimum power settings when it is running. So less moving parts than most other modern gearboxes.

 

 

 

OK, I take that back, up to a point at least. I just looked up how the Power Split Device works and it is ingeniously simple. On the other hand it does need two motor/generators as well as the computer to balance the power flows.





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Dingbatt
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  #2097001 26-Sep-2018 17:23
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SaltyNZ:

Do you often drive non-stop for 1200km? I'm usually more than ready for a break after about 300km.



You are quite correct. I too would stop for a break along the way. Choose a nice picnic area, stop and relax. Half the time they don't even have a toilet or rubbish bin, let alone a charging point. But I could do 1200km without recourse to an energy supply if I needed to. And I'm sure you are aware that is the point I was making.

I carefully researched the tech I was buying before I purchased.




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SaltyNZ
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  #2097178 27-Sep-2018 07:19
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Dingbatt:

 

And I'm sure you are aware that is the point I was making.

I carefully researched the tech I was buying before I purchased.

 

 

 

I am completely aware of the point you were making. The point that I am making is that I can count the number of times I've driven 1200km in even as few as 3 days on one hand with fingers to spare, and the number of times I've needed to drive 1000km away from the nearest energy source is 0. Were I to decide I did not want drive my Leaf from Auckland to Wellington - although it's completely possible to do so - I could hire a car to do that too and still be better off. But I'm pretty sure the last time I did that was before we had kids because we did it in the 200SX...

 

The fact is that if people didn't get hung up on the trips they might make once a year and concentrated on the ones they do every day they would see that EVs are already viable. I commute ~55km each way every day and just plug my car into a power point in the garage when I get home. I don't need to charge in the city as a general rule. When our renovations are done I'll get a 20A power point put in so I can be less inconvenienced if I get home late, but even now that is only slightly annoying as opposed to an actual issue. And that's in a car that's already obsolete: the current model has a 25% bigger battery than mine, and next year's one will be double. There are already cars on the market with double the size of my battery. In fact, there are already BEV cars on the market with 1000km ranges, but the fact is, there is little practical need for such a battery.

 

Yes, there are people who do 1000km trips every few days. Those people probably don't do them in Toyota Corollas either so perhaps they would like a 1000km range BEV, but I suspect that even those people would find a 400km range car would be completely practical due to the fact that - as I pointed out - you don't drive 1000km non-stop unless you wish to die.

 

I firmly believe that hybrids are a distraction, PHEVs even more so.





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Dingbatt
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  #2097187 27-Sep-2018 08:04
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And that car you would hire to do the Auckland Wellington trip would have what sort of drivetrain?
I contest your assertion that hybrids are irrelevant. Particularly when you make comments about the technical aspects of the system without even looking at the technology first. They are not a distraction and will retain a place until battery technology improves to the point where energy density and cost mean BEVs can become the norm. Until the choices are more than a butt-ugly second-hand import LEAF or a new $50000+ EV then I will continue driving my hybrid, using half as much gas as the similarly sized vehicles around me, while I save up for an EV.
But I will consider your points after driving (non stop) into the Coromandel this weekend.




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GV27
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  #2097192 27-Sep-2018 08:26
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Dingbatt: And that car you would hire to do the Auckland Wellington trip would have what sort of drivetrain?
I contest your assertion that hybrids are irrelevant. Particularly when you make comments about the technical aspects of the system without even looking at the technology first. They are not a distraction and will retain a place until battery technology improves to the point where energy density and cost mean BEVs can become the norm. Until the choices are more than a butt-ugly second-hand import LEAF or a new $50000+ EV then I will continue driving my hybrid, using half as much gas as the similarly sized vehicles around me, while I save up for an EV.
But I will consider your points after driving (non stop) into the Coromandel this weekend.

 

We don't necessarily have to wait for batteries to get so big you can do 750km in one go, but if you can do 350km before a five minute recharge, then that's going to help bring prices down even faster. It needs to be just like driving a normal car; you top off the tank when you can or you think you might need to. 

 

I'll miss gearchanges though, until someone comes up with a PDK emulation mode for paddles :D


 
 
 
 


frednz
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  #2097201 27-Sep-2018 08:50
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SaltyNZ:

 

Yes, there are people who do 1000km trips every few days. Those people probably don't do them in Toyota Corollas either so perhaps they would like a 1000km range BEV, but I suspect that even those people would find a 400km range car would be completely practical due to the fact that - as I pointed out - you don't drive 1000km non-stop unless you wish to die.

 

I firmly believe that hybrids are a distraction, PHEVs even more so.

 

 

A 400 km range EV is completely practical for driving around town or for trips where there are plenty of chargers available. But what say you want to travel in your EV from Hokitika to Wanaka, a distance of about 420 kms? You can charge up at Hokitika and also at Wanaka, but at present there's nothing in between! So, how do you do this distance in your Nissan Leaf or even in your new Hyundai 64 kWh 400km range EV? A 1000km pure electric car would certainly be good for this.

 

So, for such trips it might be good to own a "hybrid" BMW i3 which has a petrol range extender, at least it could get from Hokitka to Wanaka by using the range extender! So, don't write off hybrids just yet, they may be a distraction, but at least they'll get you from Hokitika to Wanaka without having to find a camp site and charging up for hours at a caravan site.


DjShadow
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  #2097214 27-Sep-2018 09:21
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Here is something positive for Wellington people:

 

Wellington Electricity offers the retailers an "EV" rate/plan which basically means your night rates start at 9pm as opposed to 11pm.

 

Just managed to get Genesis energy to do a remote re-program of our smart meter so during overnight we will only be paying 15.02c per kW (plus GST) for all power use so charging the wife's leaf is going to be cheaper still.


MikeB4
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  #2097216 27-Sep-2018 09:27
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I have been looking at the new model Nissan Leaf, it is a huge improvement over the previous models. It is a shame that Nissan NZ dropped cars from there inventory except for the 370 and GTR in favour of SUVs only. I would probably buy one, I wont buy used imported.


wellygary
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  #2097223 27-Sep-2018 09:41
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MikeB4:

 

I have been looking at the new model Nissan Leaf, it is a huge improvement over the previous models. It is a shame that Nissan NZ dropped cars from there inventory except for the 370 and GTR in favour of SUVs only. I would probably buy one, I wont buy used imported.

 

 

Nissan NZ have said publically they will sell the new leaf (40kwh) in NZ ( likely early 2019)

 

http://evtalk.co.nz/nissan-nz-refutes-rumours-of-early-nissan-leaf-60kw-h-release/


frednz
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  #2097237 27-Sep-2018 09:49
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MikeB4:

 

I have been looking at the new model Nissan Leaf, it is a huge improvement over the previous models. It is a shame that Nissan NZ dropped cars from there inventory except for the 370 and GTR in favour of SUVs only. I would probably buy one, I wont buy used imported.

 

 

I agree, but even the new model Leaf doesn't have a liquid cooling system, so we might need to wait for next year's 60 kWh model, which hopefully will have a proper cooling system. And I'm the same as you, I won't buy used imported and then find that you have to use third parties to help you get NZ maps etc etc. And we've all seen how difficult it's been for Leaf owners to get firmware updates, it took quite a while for Nissan NZ to come to the party with an official version.


ockel
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  #2100239 2-Oct-2018 17:50
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Drop the price of the Mitsi PHEV - and you get the best month ever.  It accounted for almost 5% of Mitsi NZ's September sales.

 

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/outlander-plug-in-powers-mitsubishi-s-best-september-in-24-years/?ref=nzhhome


GV27
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  #2100246 2-Oct-2018 18:29
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frednz:

 

MikeB4:

 

I have been looking at the new model Nissan Leaf, it is a huge improvement over the previous models. It is a shame that Nissan NZ dropped cars from there inventory except for the 370 and GTR in favour of SUVs only. I would probably buy one, I wont buy used imported.

 

 

I agree, but even the new model Leaf doesn't have a liquid cooling system, so we might need to wait for next year's 60 kWh model, which hopefully will have a proper cooling system. And I'm the same as you, I won't buy used imported and then find that you have to use third parties to help you get NZ maps etc etc. And we've all seen how difficult it's been for Leaf owners to get firmware updates, it took quite a while for Nissan NZ to come to the party with an official version.

 

 

I too like the look of the new Leaf but there's no way I'm buying one without an active TMS.


alasta
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  #2100537 3-Oct-2018 10:06
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This Australian article suggests that over there Kia is targeting pricing around $50k AUD. Adjusting for currency and GST rates would make that less than $60k NZD, which would be far better than the $74k NZD entry price for the mechanically related Kona electric.

 

Unfortunately the article is unclear whether that price refers to the 64kWh version, or the 39kWh version that is expected to be available at a later stage.

 

It's worth noting that the Australian launch is anticipated for late next year, whereas Kia NZ appears to be suggesting a local release in March. That may mean that Kia NZ will apply higher margins on the initial price if enthusiastic early adopters haven't all got their hands on a Kona EV by that stage.


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