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  Reply # 2110315 18-Oct-2018 10:22
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I noticed this car for sale on TradeMe.

Fiat 500 Bambina 1966 - EV conversion

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/fiat/auction-1802909644.htm

Before bidding you may consider the inherit safety issues with owning this car, compared to a modern EV.

There's effectively no safety equipment, except for seat belts.

Whiplash, crushed knees, broken hips and ribs, head injuries, and of course death are many more times more likely than any car made in the last 20 years.

Only Graham would be safe.
Click to see full size

https://www.boredpanda.com/graham-body-survive-car-crash-road-safety-victorian-government-patricia-piccinini/

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  Reply # 2110341 18-Oct-2018 10:54
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kingdragonfly:

Before bidding you may consider the inherit safety issues with owning this car, compared to a modern EV.

There's effectively no safety equipment, except for seat belts.

 

Well that applies to the original version as well - though I'd probably trade the risk of having a petrol tank behind (in the "boot" in front of) the dashboard more than having a few hundred kg of probably poorly secured lead/acid batteries on the back seat a few cm from your spine.

 

Hindsight is a great thing - those old Bambinas can be worth serious money these days - that one is only worth the value of a few body panels etc.

 

My mother had one - back in the 1970s.  I sat my driving licence test in it - the local traffic cop doing the testing was about 6'6" tall, I opened the sunroof for him to poke his head out.  Half way through the test, he spotted some gang guys working for the local council, riding in a trailer behind a tractor on the road.  He unbuckled his seat belt, stood up while I was driving - yelling at the gangstas as they were yelling and screaming back at him - everybody (including the cop) laughing their heads off.  Those were the days, I aced the driving test of course.


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  Reply # 2110976 19-Oct-2018 13:59
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Tesla inch closer to a $35 K model 3...

 

But as with every tech company the "upsell" incentive gets stronger,

 

Yes,  you can have a "mid range" model 3 for $45K, $4k less than the current "longer range" $49K model,

 

but if you want the longer range model, you will now have to have it with AWD and that will cost you $5K extra ($54K)

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-18/tesla-starts-taking-orders-for-shorter-range-model-3-at-45-000

 

oh yeah you had better get in soon too as from 1 Jan '19 the federal tax credit  will go down to $3.75K from $7.5 - and it will fall to $1.8K in July'19

 

All price USD

 

 


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  Reply # 2111286 20-Oct-2018 09:18
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more of the same...

Fortune
"Tesla Has Finally Released Its Long-Promised Mid-Range Model 3. Sort Of"

http://fortune.com/2018/10/19/tesla-model-3-mid-range/

"Tesla’s Model 3 was originally supposed to be the company’s mass-market offering, with prices starting at US $35,000 before incentives. But that hasn’t happened yet. The version on sale for the last year—the long-range version—costs between US $49,000 and $78,000.

However, Tesla is inching toward its target price for the Model 3. On Thursday, CEO Elon Musk took to Twitter to announce a new, mid-range version of the Model 3 that costs US $35,000—after federal and state tax rebates. In other words, the new Tesla Model 3 costs $45,000 before incentives.

'True cost of ownership is closer to US $31k after gas savings,' Musk claimed.

So when’s the actually-$35,000-before-incentives version of the Tesla Model 3 coming? Early next year, Tesla said.

Tesla has had very well-publicized issues with production and then delivery logistics over the last year. Must said in May that shipping the cheapest, 'standard' Model 3 before the pricier models would have caused Tesla to 'lose money and die.'

While the long-range Tesla battery pack takes the car 310 miles on a charge, the mid-range Model 3 battery has a range of 260 miles."

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  Reply # 2111287 20-Oct-2018 09:27
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Youtube: "What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3"

says the body frame is too complex, heavy, making it hard to manufacture, expensive

BUT most of the car is superior to others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1a8rdX6DU


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  Reply # 2111301 20-Oct-2018 09:43
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kingdragonfly: "What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3"

says the body frame is too complex, heavy, making it hard to manufacture, expensive

 

Imagine if they redesigned the body to make it lighter and cheaper . . . or if other companies had Tesla's batteries and motors.

 

There was a suggestion right at the start of Tesla making cars, that makes a lot of sense - Tesla should have teamed up with an established vehicle manufacturer to make electric cars.  We can clearly see why this could have potentially been a great move.  Imagine the lead on the rest of the car companies Tesla could have with a better body/frame, they would be a long way ahead and the rest would be playing catch-up for years to come.


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  Reply # 2111422 20-Oct-2018 13:46
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MarkH67:

 

kingdragonfly: "What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3"

says the body frame is too complex, heavy, making it hard to manufacture, expensive

 

Imagine if they redesigned the body to make it lighter and cheaper . . . or if other companies had Tesla's batteries and motors.

 

There was a suggestion right at the start of Tesla making cars, that makes a lot of sense - Tesla should have teamed up with an established vehicle manufacturer to make electric cars.  We can clearly see why this could have potentially been a great move.  Imagine the lead on the rest of the car companies Tesla could have with a better body/frame, they would be a long way ahead and the rest would be playing catch-up for years to come.

 

 

I imagine the reason they didn't was at least as much because all the other manufacturers had no faith in the ability of electric to deliver, coupled with a huge ongoing investment in their traditional drive trains. It wasn't until Tesla actually demonstrated that a useful EV was possible before the others really started getting on board. The first Roadster was from 2008, and our beloved Leaf didn't appear for about another three years.

 

But I agree: imagine if Toyota had released electric Corollas, Camrys and Hiluxes in 2008 based on Tesla batteries and motors.

 

 





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 2111618 20-Oct-2018 20:31
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kingdragonfly: Youtube: "What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1a8rdX6DU

 

 

 

OT, but... Why an image of an old Model S on the Youtube video of a Model 3 teardown?! Annoys me to no end. :D





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  Reply # 2112054 21-Oct-2018 21:00
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If you're looking for very high quality studies on electric car impact, in countries with high fossil fuel electricity production, like Australia and the USA, then I'd recommend the "Union of Concerned Scientists."

Spoiler alert: even in countries with most electricity coming from low quality coal, it's still better to buy a new EV than even driving a used high gas mileage car.

Electricity from fossil fuels: USA - 81%, NZ - 20%

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-numbers-are-in-and-evs-are-cleaner-than-ever

"New Numbers Are In and EVs Are Cleaner Than Ever"

"One of the most common questions I’m asked about electric cars is, 'how clean are they?'

"Five years ago, the Union of Concerned Scientists answered this question, publishing its first look at the global warming emissions from electric vehicles (EVs) in our ‘State of Charge’ report. In early 2017, the US EPA updated their data on emissions from electricity generation, now capturing power plant emissions through the end of 2014. How does this new data change our assessment of EVs?

For over 70 percent of Americans, driving an EV results in fewer emissions than even a 50 MPG gasoline vehicle.

We now find the overall global warming emissions from using an EV is significantly lower for most of the US. Several regions of the country showed significant decreases in emissions, as compared to our first EV emissions assessment.

When compared to our initial report on EV global warming emissions, the changes are impressive. That report used 2009 power plant data (the most current available in 2012) and placed only 9 of 26 regions in the ‘best’ category. Now 19 regions are in the best category with only 2 in ‘good’ regions.

For example, the Northern Midwest region that includes Minnesota and Iowa improved from 39 MPG equivalent to 54 MPG and Eastern Wisconsin also jumped from ‘good’ at 40 MPG to our ‘best’ rating with emissions equal to 52 MPG gasoline cars.

Based on where EVs have been bought to-date, the average EV in the US now produces emissions equivalent to a hypothetical gasoline car achieving 73 MPG."

Again, the US is a worse case country, with most electricity coming from fossil fuels, so it's much, much better here in NZ

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  Reply # 2112824 23-Oct-2018 17:12
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"Tesla Model S stolen by thieves hacking the keyfob"
Engadget Today

Maybe Tesla should add a movement sensor to the keyfob, so it doesn't continuously transmits




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  Reply # 2113071 24-Oct-2018 09:03
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wellygary:

 

oh yeah you had better get in soon too as from 1 Jan '19 the federal tax credit  will go down to $3.75K from $7.5 - and it will fall to $1.8K in July'19

 

All price USD

 

 

 



Not relevant for us Kiwis *unless* we have income there and we pay taxes in the US AND owe more than US$7,500 in federal income tax. :-) 





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  Reply # 2113075 24-Oct-2018 09:11
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kingdragonfly: "Tesla Model S stolen by thieves hacking the keyfob"
Engadget Today

Maybe Tesla should add a movement sensor to the keyfob, so it doesn't continuously transmits

 

 

 

How it works. Note that it is not a Tesla vulnerability, it's a third party security system used in other vehicles too.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 2113134 24-Oct-2018 10:15
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SaltyNZ:

 

kingdragonfly: "Tesla Model S stolen by thieves hacking the keyfob"
Engadget Today

Maybe Tesla should add a movement sensor to the keyfob, so it doesn't continuously transmits

 

How it works. Note that it is not a Tesla vulnerability, it's a third party security system used in other vehicles too.

 

 

Although unless its being pinched by professional thieves to be broken up (and who know how to disable the always on GPS) , you will likely find it fairly quickly....

 

https://electrek.co/2015/11/03/tesla-owner-tracked-stolen-model-s-via-iphone-app-leads-to-arrest-enjoyment/

 

 


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  Reply # 2113193 24-Oct-2018 13:10
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kingdragonfly: Youtube: "What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3"

says the body frame is too complex, heavy, making it hard to manufacture, expensive

BUT most of the car is superior to others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1a8rdX6DU

 

Interesting video.  So basically if Tesla knew how to build a chassis for production, they would be away laughing and the car would be lighter (even more range).





Mike

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  Reply # 2113957 25-Oct-2018 17:04
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I thought this would be appropriate in this forum, since it's the first EV to obtain regulatory approval as an energy reservoir for Germany's power grid.

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/technology-and-innovation/europe/features/nissan-leaf-enables-fleets-sell-back-electricity

"Nissan Leaf enables fleets to sell back electricity"

"The world's best-selling electric car will soon be able to give back electricity to the grid in Germany, Nissan announces. Indeed, the new Nissan Leaf is the first EV to obtain regulatory approval as an energy reservoir for Germany's power grid.

Nissan has reached an agreement with The Mobility House, the energy utility Enervie and the transmission system operator Amprion that allows the Leaf to be integrated into the German grid as a standard power plant - a breakthrough to establish the so-called vehicle-to-grid technology (V2G) in Germany.

EVs needed to offset fluctuation

In order to succeed in this world-wide turnaround towards decentralized energy generation through renewable resources, innovative solutions are needed to stabilize the power grid. Indeed, the increasing use of renewable energies leads to fluctuations in the grid. In a first step, this must be compensated for by providing primary control power in order to prevent impending power outages within seconds.

Electric cars like the Nissan Leaf with integrated bidirectional charging technology can play an important role in this. Thanks to its ChaDeMo charging port, it can not only pull the power out of the grid and store it in the traction battery, but also feed it back when needed.

Not all EVs can do V2G

This bidirectional charging capability of the Nissan Leaf is a prerequisite for V2G. Nissan is one of the few OEMs that uses the ChaDeMo charging standard - nearly all European EV builders have opted for the competing system, CCS (Combined Charging System), which equally allows V2G. So does Tesla's Supercharger system - at least in theory.

Indeed, the Japanese OEM is a true pioneer in this area. Neither the Jaguar I-Pace nor the BMW i3, Hyundai Kona Electric, Tesla Model S and X or any other EV on the market today is equipped with the hardware that allows the battery to put power back into the grid."

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