EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2140515 6-Dec-2018 13:21

WyleECoyoteNZ:

A couple of my thoughts around EV's

1) If you take a city like Wellington, and in particular suburbs like Mt Victoria, Mt Cook, Newtown and Thorndon, each day down any residential street you'll see cars parked on the side of the road. Chances are that the majority of those cars parked will belong to the residents living near by. If they car is a conventional ICE powered vehicle, if they need to fill up they can do so at there choice of service station. Now if these people were to buy an EV, charging it becomes rather difficult. Maybe they are lucky enough to have a garage, but a lot won't be. This type of scenario won't be restricted to just Wellington, but will be common across most NZ cities.

2) A third of NZer's don't own there own home. For those that rent, maybe they're lucky enough to have a garage or maybe they don't. Even if they do have a garage, that's no guarantee that's if fit for purpose to be able to charge an EV. I know from personal experience that a house I've rented had a garage, but that garage was not fit for purpose for charging an EV

These are definitely valid issues, and they are in no way restricted to NZ. But that's why Wellington city council is trialing EV charging zones.

3) The argument around owning an EV, then hiring a ICE for the traditional kiwi Christmas road trip. Sounds good in theory, but how many would actually do this in practice? My guess would be not many. Chances are that if you've saved X dollars a week\fortnight\month on fuel by driving a EV, then that money saved is simply re purposed somewhere else in the household budget.

Well, that's true too. In practice I will drive my EV, despite it being "impossible" to take on a holiday. I'm on holiday: I don't have a deadline breathing down my neck. I can afford the time to enjoy the trip as opposed to silently raging that I can't get there one second faster.

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Dinga96

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#2140699 6-Dec-2018 17:27

WyleECoyoteNZ:

A couple of my thoughts around EV's

1) If you take a city like Wellington, and in particular suburbs like Mt Victoria, Mt Cook, Newtown and Thorndon, each day down any residential street you'll see cars parked on the side of the road. Chances are that the majority of those cars parked will belong to the residents living near by. If they car is a conventional ICE powered vehicle, if they need to fill up they can do so at there choice of service station. Now if these people were to buy an EV, charging it becomes rather difficult. Maybe they are lucky enough to have a garage, but a lot won't be. This type of scenario won't be restricted to just Wellington, but will be common across most NZ cities.

2) A third of NZer's don't own there own home. For those that rent, maybe they're lucky enough to have a garage or maybe they don't. Even if they do have a garage, that's no guarantee that's if fit for purpose to be able to charge an EV. I know from personal experience that a house I've rented had a garage, but that garage was not fit for purpose for charging an EV

3) The argument around owning an EV, then hiring a ICE for the traditional kiwi Christmas road trip. Sounds good in theory, but how many would actually do this in practice? My guess would be not many. Chances are that if you've saved X dollars a week\fortnight\month on fuel by driving a EV, then that money saved is simply re purposed somewhere else in the household budget.

On the subject of money saved by driving an EV is sufficient to fund the hiring of a ICE for your holiday. I'd currently spend around $60 a fortnight on Petrol for our current vehicle. If i purchased an EV and diverted $40 of that current petrol spend to a Hire ICE account, over the course of a year I'd have just over $1,000 for the hiring of a ICE. That's not even close to being enough for a family of 4 (which is what ours is) for a 2 week south island holiday.

Yes maybe you could have 2 cars instead, an EV for daily driving\commuting\shopping and a ICE for the road trips, but then again not everyone can afford the luxury of running 2 vehicles. I know I can't.

Maybe you could just own a affordable (sub $25k, e.g. Leaf) EV and have that as your single vehicle and for the road trips just accept that it is going to take longer to get to your destination, but if you only have limited annual leave spending maybe 4 days just traveling (2 days to your destination and 2 days back again) is going to either a) make your stay shorter and maybe less relaxing at your destination or b) have the need for you to use more of your leave to give you that same time away.

Anyway, that's my thoughts for now, maybe you agree, maybe you don't.

I have to wonder where you come up with the idea that someone is going to spend 2 extra days getting to their holiday destination because they are driving an EV.You assume everyone is heading to the Bluff or Cape Reianga from Wellington or something.Okay a few will drive that distance ,most will not and be quiet able to spend only a day getting to where ever they are going despite the fact they are driving an ev.Another thing you seemed concerned about is drivers without a garage who park out on the streets.I am sure any resourseful person can park up by the house and charge their car outside,its okay, makes no difference to the car whether its in a garage or not.

richms

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#2140856 6-Dec-2018 22:22

frankv:

Sure, you could live entirely within one city, but that would be be a very limited life. Beach? Holidays? Visits to friends/relatives?

No interest in a beach, Holidays are done via the airport and friends/relatives are all within range or would be better to fly to.

Richard rich.ms

richms

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#2140857 6-Dec-2018 22:24

frankv:

*I* can't. Last holiday was a drive around the South Island, including driving across Molesworth.

Sounds like an aweful holiday. Also there are things called rental cars which is generally the best way to drive around the other island rather than taking your own a huge distance and on that ripoff ferry.

Richard rich.ms

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#2140858 6-Dec-2018 22:25

Dinga96:

Another thing you seemed concerned about is drivers without a garage who park out on the streets.I am sure any resourseful person can park up by the house and charge their car outside,its okay, makes no difference to the car whether its in a garage or not.

In some places in Wellington (and elsewhere) street parking is your only option - you can't park it anywhere close to your house. Sometimes you have to walk up a flight of steps to get to your house or your house is at the back of a block - either way you'll need a very long extension lead to get to the car

And I can imagine the arguments in a flatting situation

kingdragonfly

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#2142688 10-Dec-2018 18:00

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-sleeping-driver-dui-arrest-autopilot/

"A sleeping tesla driver highlights autopilot's biggest flaw"

California Highway Patrol officers used a clever trick to stop a Tesla going 70 mph down Highway 101 with a sleeping man at the wheel.

As technology advances, so must policing. Last week, when a couple of California Highway Patrol officers spotted a man apparently sleeping in the driver’s seat of a Tesla Model S going 70 mph down Highway 101 in Palo Alto around 3:30 am, they moved behind the car and turned on their siren and lights. When the driver didn’t respond, the cops went beyond their standard playbook. Figuring the Tesla might be using Autopilot, they called for backup to slow traffic behind them, then pulled in front of the car and gradually started braking. And so the Tesla slowed down, too, until it was stopped in its lane.

...its driver didn’t wake up until the cops knocked on his window.

Tesla clearly tells its customers who pay the extra $5,000 for Autopilot that they are always responsible for the car’s driving, and that they must remain vigilant at all times. Driving drunk is illegal. And the vehicle’s sorta-self-driving tech may have prevented a crash. But if Autopilot did allow a slumbering and allegedly drunk driver to speed down the highway, it brings up another question: Is Elon Musk’s car company doing enough to prevent human abuse of its technology?

...Tesla has restricted how long a driver can go without touching the steering wheel before the receiving a warning beep. If they don’t respond, the system will eventually direct the car to stop and hit its hazard lights. That makes this incident a bit confusing, as Musk noted in a tweet:

@elonmusk for Autopilot: if the AP can detect whether or not if a driver is conscious then pull over and use hazard lights, send a signal to police or EMTs. Also make AP able to detect if police are trying to pull you over.

Exactly. Default Autopilot behavior, if there’s no driver input, is to slow gradually to a stop & turn on hazard lights. Tesla service then contacts the owner. Looking into what happened here.

The sensors in the steering wheel that register the human touch, though, are easy to cheat, as YouTube videos demonstrate. A well-wedged orange or water bottle can do the trick. Posters in online forums say they have strapped weights onto their wheels and experimented with Ziplock bags and “mini weights.” For a while, drivers even could buy an Autopilot Buddy “nag reduction device,” until the feds sent the company a cease-and-desist letter this summer.
...

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2143851 12-Dec-2018 09:29

A brief review\5 Things video on the new Jaguar I Pace from Australian site Drive.com.au. Starts at $119,995 AUD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ktEeqT6fI

Also a first drive review on the Hyundai Ioniq EV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe4h-iFDHM

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2143853 12-Dec-2018 09:31

From Carfection films, a review on the new Audi e-Tron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLo3_43zfA

WyleECoyoteNZ

1048 posts

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#2144012 12-Dec-2018 11:43

Another Australian review of the Jaguar I pace. This time from CarAdvice.com

https://www.caradvice.com.au/708655/2019-jaguar-i-pace-review/

frednz

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#2144706 13-Dec-2018 11:10

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Another Australian review of the Jaguar I pace. This time from CarAdvice.com

https://www.caradvice.com.au/708655/2019-jaguar-i-pace-review/

Nice, and with 470kms of range it's a good competitor to Tesla equivalents. But, the Hyundai Kona 64 kWh has a range of at least 400km and up to 470km, so for a mere $80,000 this looks like better value than the I Pace.

Although it's fun talking about these pricey top-end EVs, they aren't going to do much to help the required uptake of EVs in NZ. When we have a Suzuki Swift sized EV with a range of 250km and a NZ-new price of less than $30,000, then things might start happening.

In the meantime, let's dream on and continue buying our second-hand imported Nissan Leafs, despite their numerous faults and lack of support from Nissan NZ!

wellygary

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#2144710 13-Dec-2018 11:30

frednz:

When we have a Suzuki Swift sized EV with a range of 250km and a NZ-new price of less than $30,000, then things might start happening.

We are probably 5 years away from that...

The nearest today is a Chinese BAIC, at $NZD 40K, with a 160km range (22kwh) battery

Imported leafs making up the bulk of our EV fleet is gonna be with us for a while yet...

MarkH67

517 posts

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#2144827 13-Dec-2018 15:15

frednz:

Nice, and with 470kms of range it's a good competitor to Tesla equivalents. But, the Hyundai Kona 64 kWh has a range of at least 400km and up to 470km, so for a mere $80,000 this looks like better value than the I Pace.

I can't help wondering what a 2019 or 2020 Kona would cost 4 years from now as a 2nd hand car, that could be what I replace my 24kWh Leaf with in 2023.

wellygary

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#2144851 13-Dec-2018 16:01

MarkH67:

I can't help wondering what a 2019 or 2020 Kona would cost 4 years from now as a 2nd hand car, that could be what I replace my 24kWh Leaf with in 2023.

in 2014 an BMW i3 cost 84K new in NZ, they now go for between 35-40K.... So you could be looking about the same 30-40K for a 2nd hand Kona in 2023

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2144876 13-Dec-2018 17:04

wellygary:

MarkH67:

I can't help wondering what a 2019 or 2020 Kona would cost 4 years from now as a 2nd hand car, that could be what I replace my 24kWh Leaf with in 2023.

in 2014 an BMW i3 cost 84K new in NZ, they now go for between 35-40K.... So you could be looking about the same 30-40K for a 2nd hand Kona in 2023

On that subject it'll be interesting to see what happens to the Jaguar I Pace in 4-5 years.

Beacham Jaguar in Auckland are listing a new Jaguar I Pace SE at $179,990

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/jaguar/auction-1864823798.htm?rsqid=af6aa20b8a574b1dacca920c5dd7423d

A Jaguar dealer in Wellington has a XJ going for $45k. Yes, the Km's are high, but I'd guess it's lost nearly $100k from it's new price in 4 or so years

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/jaguar/auction-1864459819.htm?rsqid=209ddff7c20d43a1b50010c7c541a2c5

Given the rise and rise in popularity of EV's you would wouldn't expect rampant depreciation, but it will be interesting to see what happens with these luxury mid sized SUV's (Jaguar I Pace & Audi e-Tron) from the main players.

alasta

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#2145058 13-Dec-2018 20:15

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Given the rise and rise in popularity of EV's you would wouldn't expect rampant depreciation, but it will be interesting to see what happens with these luxury mid sized SUV's (Jaguar I Pace & Audi e-Tron) from the main players.

High demand for used EVs may well keep their price close to that of their new counterparts, however it seems likely that new ones are going to decrease in price during the next five years. There is also the impact of any upcoming government subsidies.

I personally see a lot of depreciation risk around EVs and wouldn't buy one until there is a bit more certainty around how the pricing is going to trend over the next few years.

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