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wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2187942 27-Feb-2019 11:00
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Delphinus:

 

It's about time to start using Manapōuri to charge our cars rather than subsidising Rio Tinto to make aluminium. 

 

At 850 MW installed capacity, it is the largest hydroelectric power station in New Zealand, and the second largest power station in New Zealand.

 

 

last time I looked there was not yet a power shortage in NZ...

 

Even if you made power for EV charging free, its the cost of the vehicle and limited range that are the disincentive for most people....

 

 


tripper1000
1249 posts

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  #2187951 27-Feb-2019 11:05
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It is true that the cheapest/easiest spots were the first to the used back in our country building heyday, but there is plenty of other locations. The problem is that it is possible only to do small schemes now - the ones that fly under the media radar and don't impact neighbours.

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6964548/Meridian-pulls-plug-on-Mokihinui-project

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Aqua

 

Project Aqua on its own@520 MW would have likely meant the total death of coal generation in NZ and would have exceeded the peak production of the gas peaking plants in Taranaki (516 MW), severely taking the financial wind out of their sails. Collectively as a country we say one thing, but do another. 


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2187955 27-Feb-2019 11:15
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tripper1000:

 

It is true that the cheapest/easiest spots were the first to the used back in our country building heyday, but there is plenty of other locations. The problem is that it is possible only to do small schemes now - the ones that fly under the media radar and don't impact neighbours.

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6964548/Meridian-pulls-plug-on-Mokihinui-project

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Aqua

 

Project Aqua on its own@520 MW would have likely meant the total death of coal generation in NZ and would have exceeded the peak production of the gas peaking plants in Taranaki (516 MW), severely taking the financial wind out of their sails. Collectively as a country we say one thing, but do another. 

 

 

Agree, we need to act now. One day we will have to. so why not now


tripper1000
1249 posts

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  #2187958 27-Feb-2019 11:20
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wellygary:

 

last time I looked there was not yet a power shortage in NZ...

 

You must not have been looking in October 2018 then when we simulated the end of gas generated electricity in NZ:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/107899242/power-retailer-flick-electric-face-fallout-from-spot-price-surge

 

The current raft of electricity price rises are not in response to a glut of electricity.

 

Delphinus:

 

It's about time to start using Manapōuri to charge our cars rather than subsidising Rio Tinto to make aluminium. 

 

At 850 MW installed capacity, it is the largest hydroelectric power station in New Zealand, and the second largest power station in New Zealand.

 

 

Yeah, nah, that is the NIMBY (No In My Back Yard) attitude and ultimately damages the global environment. The Aluminium will simply be made elsewhere, probably by burning coal - there is no point moving coal burning from one country to another. The CO2 all goes into the same sky and is a global problem. If we were responsible global citizens we would be building another 10 Manapouri's and putting foreign coal plants out of business. Jeeze, such a plan would increase employment and lift NZ living standards - Crazy Talk!

 

Edit: Building another 10 Manapouri's to run another 10 Tiwai Points....


wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2187966 27-Feb-2019 11:38
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tripper1000:

 

Yeah, nah, that is the NIMBY (No In My Back Yard) attitude and ultimately damages the global environment. The Aluminium will simply be made elsewhere, probably by burning coal - there is no point moving coal burning from one country to another. The CO2 all goes into the same sky and is a global problem. If we were responsible global citizens we would be building another 10 Manapouri's and putting foreign coal plants out of business. Jeeze, such a plan would increase employment and lift NZ living standards - Crazy Talk!

 

Edit: Building another 10 Manapouri's to run another 10 Tiwai Points....

 

 

There is currently over 2000MW of consented wind projects, that are simply sitting there waiting to stack up economically,

 

http://www.windenergy.org.nz/consented-wind-farms

 

and 350MW of consented Geothermal,

 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-generation-and-markets/geothermal-energy-generation/

 

SO there is no shortage of projects that they can commence work on if they want to ...


SaltyNZ
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  #2188069 27-Feb-2019 12:52
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wellygary:

 

last time I looked there was not yet a power shortage in NZ...

 

Even if you made power for EV charging free, its the cost of the vehicle and limited range that are the disincentive for most people....

 

 

 

 

Cost is a factor for sure although I suspect they're about to start coming down - we're now landing on 60kWh-ish batteries for most, which means the further savings in manufacturing will stop going into producing bigger batteries and into price reductions instead. But as far as limited range goes ... that's just inertia. Being forced to stop and recharge during my daily vehicle use is rare, and even then it's seldom a real problem. In practice the 'limited range' doesn't really matter even right now - and those limited ranges won't be there in a couple of years time anyway.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2188121 27-Feb-2019 14:09
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SaltyNZ:

 

Cost is a factor for sure although I suspect they're about to start coming down - we're now landing on 60kWh-ish batteries for most, which means the further savings in manufacturing will stop going into producing bigger batteries and into price reductions instead.

 

 

I do hope so, but car companies have habits of trying to keep prices as high as they can to make more $$$.

 

Tesla's promised 35K model 3 is a case in point (3 years ago) and as yet the closest is 44K (all USD)


 
 
 
 


Delphinus
483 posts

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  #2188725 28-Feb-2019 11:32
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HONDA e Prototype | Fully Charged

 


wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2188735 28-Feb-2019 11:50
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kobiak:

 

https://www.slashgear.com/polestar-2-official-2020-premium-ev-range-price-performance-specifications-27567602/

 

why not NZ :(

 

 

Because the total number of new pure EVs sold in NZ in 2018 was 750....


wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2188742 28-Feb-2019 12:00
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Delphinus:

 

HONDA e Prototype | Fully Charged

 

 

Nice, and given it will be sold in Japan, fairly likely at least a few will be imported....price will be the big decider,

 

But my first thought is that its a Honda i3, ... suicide doors, wood panelling, distinct exterior look.... 


SaltyNZ
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  #2188772 28-Feb-2019 12:46
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wellygary:

 

distinct exterior look.... 

 

 

 

 

Looks like a Disney robot.

 

 

 

 

Why, Honda, why!?? Why can't we just have electric cars that look like cars instead of fridges or toasters?

 

 





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


tripper1000
1249 posts

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  #2188864 28-Feb-2019 14:15
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wellygary: There is currently over 2000MW of consented wind projects, that are simply sitting there waiting to stack up economically,

 

http://www.windenergy.org.nz/consented-wind-farms

 

and 350MW of consented Geothermal, https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-generation-and-markets/geothermal-energy-generation/

 

SO there is no shortage of projects that they can commence work on if they want to ...

 

Geothermal, I would invest in, but Wind has proven to be disappointing in N.Z. unfortunately, so you are unlikely to see a lot a of those wind farms built. If you disagree then keep and eye on the Transpower Live Data page - you will seldom see wind running over 20% capacity. 350MW of geothermal is nice, but the same page will show it's still not sufficient to displace coal and gas.


Delphinus
483 posts

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  #2188879 28-Feb-2019 14:29
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I don't think they are suicide doors, and at least the style is not quite as crazy as a BMW i3 or leaf. But they say in the video something about wanting to make a statement for their first EV. Most of the car manufacturers seem to be doing this and I think they are getting some terrible advice somewhere pushing for this! 


WyleECoyoteNZ
799 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2188885 28-Feb-2019 14:39
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wellygary:

 

kobiak:

 

https://www.slashgear.com/polestar-2-official-2020-premium-ev-range-price-performance-specifications-27567602/

 

why not NZ :(

 

 

Because the total number of new pure EVs sold in NZ in 2018 was 750....

 

 

Also no PoleStar dealers in NZ at this stage. Yes Volvo own Polestar, but my understanding is that Polestar are to be there own brand and image


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