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Aredwood
3885 posts

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  #2214736 11-Apr-2019 00:37
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afe66:

 

mm business isnt too hot either to be fair.

 

One of the locations I work at just spent millions of dollars expanding a car parking building.

 

When it was it the design phase, I approached the CEO with a colleague who is familiar EV world (having received awards) about placing some EV charging points for customers. Pointed out costs and grants available to subsidise this.

 

I also mentioned it would be a good PR exercise to go with all the recycling/green posters scattered around. ie offshoot all the concrete. Good for a puff piece in the local paper several months down the track

 

Building is finished at 35k per park and I notice there are a couple of standard 240v wall sockets on the wall near a couple of parks.

 

Contacted the CEO saying great how the power point are there and will signs etc go up offering quick charger for customers.

 

His reply was it wasnt the businesses role to be a car charging site.

 

I pointed out that a car connected to a domestic power point uses very little actual power (especially considering the business would use alot of power).

 

No interested. We are not in business charging EV...

 

 

You can blame the electrical codes for some of the above. As the rules for wiring EV chargers are stricter compared to wiring most other things. Worst part is that when the 2018 electrical codes will be mandated. You won't be allowed to connect an EV charger that is supplied via a submains cable, that uses an earth rod at the remote end of the cable, instead of having a separate earth wire as part of the cable. There are going to be lots of outbuildings, garages, and even some main buildings. Which cannot have EV chargers installed, Unless the cables are replaced. Regardless of whether the cables are rated for the load or not.

 

Maybe they could still provide just a power point. But then the company might not be allowed to make a rule, saying that only EV chargers can be plugged in. EV drivers would also need to bring their own chargers to be able to recharge. And installing a power point instead of a charger. Makes it much harder to prevent unauthorised use of the electricity. And that is before you consider what the health and safety bureaucrats might think of you using loopholes in the rules. And even if you managed to provide EV charging today, You would be running the risk of being forced to stop providing it in the future (which would annoy people even more).

 

Friends of mine have a large rural property. Their main switchboard and electricity meter is at the end of the driveway. Which also serves their neighbours (separate meters though). If they want to install an EV charger, the 200M long (approx) cable between the switchboard and their house will need to be replaced. Which would be extremely expensive to do, yet provide 0 benefit to safety.

 

 






afe66
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  #2214889 11-Apr-2019 10:38
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Thanks for the comment about regulations. I dobt that was the reason why he wasn't interested though.

It's just a normal domestic wall socket.
Seems strange that the company can plug in a leaf blower but I cant connect my car.

Most ev owners have the cables to plug into a domestic socket already. The charger is inside the car.

Regarding unauthorised use; it's a private car part so limiting its use to customers is no different to limiting car park itself.

Regarding health and safety, one of the regular employees charges his leaf by running a cable out the window of his office.

While there are obviously issues, I believe the primary objection was one of managerial attitude of a multimillion dollar business....



 
 
 
 


frednz
1434 posts

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  #2214984 11-Apr-2019 12:41
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Aredwood:

 

[Friends of mine have a large rural property. Their main switchboard and electricity meter is at the end of the driveway. Which also serves their neighbours (separate meters though). If they want to install an EV charger, the 200M long (approx) cable between the switchboard and their house will need to be replaced. Which would be extremely expensive to do, yet provide 0 benefit to safety.

 

 

 

 

I guess one of the first things you should do if you're buying, say, a 64kWh electric car , is to see whether your home is suitable for installing an AC normal charge home charger which, for example, for the 64 kWh Kia Niro EV is quoted as recharging up to 100% in 9 hours 35 minutes. This compares with a trickle charge 3-pin home charger which takes 29 hours to recharge up to 100%.

 

So, does anyone have any suggestions about what company could give advice on, and install a suitable home charging system that would be about three times faster than you could get using the trickle charge from a 3-pin home charger and what the likely cost would be?

 

I wouldn't like to buy a 64kWh EV and then find that the wiring in our home doesn't support the needs of a home charging unit! Thanks for your help.


WyleECoyoteNZ
796 posts

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  #2215003 11-Apr-2019 13:22
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afe66:

 

mm business isnt too hot either to be fair.

 

One of the locations I work at just spent millions of dollars expanding a car parking building.

 

When it was it the design phase, I approached the CEO with a colleague who is familiar EV world (having received awards) about placing some EV charging points for customers. Pointed out costs and grants available to subsidise this.

 

I also mentioned it would be a good PR exercise to go with all the recycling/green posters scattered around. ie offshoot all the concrete. Good for a puff piece in the local paper several months down the track

 

Building is finished at 35k per park and I notice there are a couple of standard 240v wall sockets on the wall near a couple of parks.

 

Contacted the CEO saying great how the power point are there and will signs etc go up offering quick charger for customers.

 

His reply was it wasnt the businesses role to be a car charging site.

 

I pointed out that a car connected to a domestic power point uses very little actual power (especially considering the business would use alot of power).

 

No interested. We are not in business charging EV...

 

 

 

 

 

 

He has a fair point.

 

At $35k per park, and assuming the building is owned, outgoings related directly to the car park are potentially going to be minimal.

 

But if you make 10% or 20% of the parks EV charging spaces, who pays for the increased electricity usage? Do you meter each park, then bill the user? Do you charge the EV users a flat monthly fee whether they use it of not?

 

Either way you turn what is currently a cash cow, into a bit of a hassle to manage and not make as much money as what you make now.

 

Sure, if an organisation wants to have a fleet of EV, then provide the charging spots for the Fleet EV's

 

But, if you've purchased a EV as an individual and have a car park, in my opinion i don't think that it is reasonable for you to expect that a charging spot\infrastructure be in place for you to charge your EV at work, unless you are going to pay for the usage. If the ICE car beside you isn't getting it's fuel source topped up while at work, why should the EV?


Delphinus
483 posts

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  #2215031 11-Apr-2019 13:59
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frednz:

 

I wouldn't like to buy a 64kWh EV and then find that the wiring in our home doesn't support the needs of a home charging unit! Thanks for your help.

 

 

Don't forget that a standard 10A plug will charge at about 1.8kWh. So Using 14kWh per 100km, a 6pm to 7am charge (13 hours) would add ~23kWh to your battery. Or 160kms additional extra range every night. How often do you travel >160kms on a daily basis? 


SaltyNZ
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  #2215066 11-Apr-2019 15:04
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frednz:

 

I wouldn't like to buy a 64kWh EV and then find that the wiring in our home doesn't support the needs of a home charging unit! Thanks for your help.

 

 

Well, you have to keep those numbers in perspective. In order to use all 64kWh every day, you are driving 400km+ daily. My 110km daily round trip costs me about 21kWh. So if *I* had a 64kWh Kona, I would normally only charge it to, say, 60%, and expect to discharge it to 30%.

 

 

That is easily achievable from an 8A charger off a normal power point, and not only is that all I would need for my daily driving, it's also better for the battery health. And if I knew I wanted to go for a long drive on Saturday, I would top up at a fast charger on Friday afternoon.

 

 

Also, I'd probably have a 16A AC charger rather than an 8A charger, but that's not a showstopper.




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


tripper1000
1248 posts

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  #2215098 11-Apr-2019 15:50
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frednz:

 

I wouldn't like to buy a 64kWh EV and then find that the wiring in our home doesn't support the needs of a home charging unit! Thanks for your help. 

 

The inference in the question isn't correct. You can recharge any EV of any battery size at your house, the only question is "how fast?". It is like asking weather or not your local petrol station can refuel a 7 litre muscle car - of course it can, but it might take 2 or 3x longer than a little 1.3 litre car - the petrol pump simply refuels at the fastest rate it can.

 

The Kona has a 7.2 kw 1 phase charger and 22kw 3 phase on board charger (well the international version does - not 100% sure if the kiwi version is different), meaning it can draw a maximum of 31.2 amps at New Zealand's voltage of 230v. 

 

Two points:

 

1) Any electrician can assess your switchboard and advise weather or not you may connect an additional 31.2 amp load to it and if you can connect a 22 kw 3 phase load.

 

2) Just because your future car is 64Kw (or any other battery size) doesn't mean you HAVE to charge it full bore at 31.2 amps/7.2 kw/22Kw. The minimum charge rate for an EV is 6 amps and you can go up in 1 amp increments from there to what ever the electrician advises you the maximum acceptable load is. If they advise that the most you can go is something like 25 amps, that is what you would calibrate the charger to and that is still a pretty decent charge rate.

 

 


 
 
 
 


afe66
2464 posts

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  #2215148 11-Apr-2019 16:14
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

afe66:


mm business isnt too hot either to be fair.


One of the locations I work at just spent millions of dollars expanding a car parking building.


When it was it the design phase, I approached the CEO with a colleague who is familiar EV world (having received awards) about placing some EV charging points for customers. Pointed out costs and grants available to subsidise this.


I also mentioned it would be a good PR exercise to go with all the recycling/green posters scattered around. ie offshoot all the concrete. Good for a puff piece in the local paper several months down the track


Building is finished at 35k per park and I notice there are a couple of standard 240v wall sockets on the wall near a couple of parks.


Contacted the CEO saying great how the power point are there and will signs etc go up offering quick charger for customers.


His reply was it wasnt the businesses role to be a car charging site.


I pointed out that a car connected to a domestic power point uses very little actual power (especially considering the business would use alot of power).


No interested. We are not in business charging EV...


 


 



He has a fair point.


At $35k per park, and assuming the building is owned, outgoings related directly to the car park are potentially going to be minimal.


But if you make 10% or 20% of the parks EV charging spaces, who pays for the increased electricity usage? Do you meter each park, then bill the user? Do you charge the EV users a flat monthly fee whether they use it of not?


Either way you turn what is currently a cash cow, into a bit of a hassle to manage and not make as much money as what you make now.


Sure, if an organisation wants to have a fleet of EV, then provide the charging spots for the Fleet EV's


But, if you've purchased a EV as an individual and have a car park, in my opinion i don't think that it is reasonable for you to expect that a charging spot\infrastructure be in place for you to charge your EV at work, unless you are going to pay for the usage. If the ICE car beside you isn't getting it's fuel source topped up while at work, why should the EV?



The car park is never more than 50% full.
The car parks that happen to be near sockets are not near the entrance so unused most of time.
Never advocated exclusive use.
Cost of wall power going to be less than domestic per hour costs. Currently less than 200 EV registered in my district
Business spends on free coffees and sky for customers
Has a significant charity arm ensuring high brand recognition.

Just seemed mean spirited

MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2215401 12-Apr-2019 02:10
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frednz:

 

I guess one of the first things you should do if you're buying, say, a 64kWh electric car , is to see whether your home is suitable for installing an AC normal charge home charger which, for example, for the 64 kWh Kia Niro EV is quoted as recharging up to 100% in 9 hours 35 minutes. This compares with a trickle charge 3-pin home charger which takes 29 hours to recharge up to 100%.

 

 

One important point is that it doesn't actually take 29 hours to recharge a 64kWh battery, who drives 400km and arrives home with ~0% power left and needs to head out the next day for a 400+ km drive again?

 

In fact, for me the Kona would be quicker to charge each night than my 24kWh leaf because it is more efficient and would therefore use less power to cover my 70km of commuting.  Not only that but the slow down in charging as it nears 100% wouldn't happen because I wouldn't need to charge to 100%, I'd be charging to 60 or 70% from 40 or 50%.  I could probably get by quite well with an 8 amp EVSE on a Kona.  The great thing with 64kWh is that I could charge to 70% each night and get home from work the next day with 50% charge left, which would be plenty if I suddenly needed to go out after work - 50% is still another 200km of driving.

 

I wouldn't need to charge more than 70% very often and the battery wouldn't be under 40% very often, my understanding is that the battery degredation should be quite slow when the battery does not sit at a high or low state of charge.  Having the battery between 40% & 70% SoC 99% of the time should mean that the battery will last as long as it possibly can.  It would take quite a lot of battery degredation before my 70 km commute would go through over 30% of the battery, many years worth!

 

My next car will definitely have at least 60kWh, hopefully they will cost less by the time I buy one (4-5 years from now).  There should be a reasonable number of 2nd hand ones available by that time too (I'd be looking for a 2-year old car).


jonathan18
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  #2219631 17-Apr-2019 09:21
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Apparently NZ will be getting a fully electric version of MG's small 'SUV' next year:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/112088646/firstever-mg-pureelectric-vehicle-confirmed-for-new-zealand

 

I've read nothing of the conventional model, but I note, in the great tradition of Chinese design rip-offs, it's clearly 'influenced' by the CX-5. It'll be interesting to read reviews of the EV version when that's released, and it's good to see a wider range of EVs available new in the NZ market.


jonathan18
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  #2219638 17-Apr-2019 09:28
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PHEV question:

 

What models are currently available as PHEVs in NZ, and are there any new ones on the horizon? (Edit: should have put a budget guide on this; I'd be looking at cars with a 'new' price of no more than $55k or so: a PHEV version of the XC60 will not be a viable option!)

 

I'm aware of the Prius and Outlander, and that's it. I'm interested in getting a PHEV when I get around to replacing my car, but neither of these models fully appeal to me.

 

I intensely dislike the look of the Prius (we already have a Leaf, so two fugly cars is not desirable!), and imagine it's slightly on the small side for a car needing to take a family of four and all its junk on the road (it'll be replacing a Mazda 6 wagon).

 

I'm taking the latest version of the Outlander for a test drive tomorrow, but would prefer to stay away from an 'SUV'-type vehicle - I prefer the driving position, feel and handling of a conventional car like my 6.

 

I'd not be looking to replace my car for a couple of years, I imagine, but cars currently available now are those I'd likely to be looking at at the time (my preference is to buy s/h but well within the servicing/warranty period).

 

Thanks!

 

 


Beccara
1287 posts

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  #2219643 17-Apr-2019 09:36
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Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

jonathan18
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  #2219662 17-Apr-2019 09:45
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Beccara:

 

Looked at the Ioniq Hybrids? I know you said new but offical used with 100km on the clock

 

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/used-cars/2018-hyundai-ioniq-13749?fuel%5B0%5D=Hybrid&priceFrom=5990&priceTo=89885&yearFrom=2006&yearTo=2019&odometerFrom=10&odometerTo=188000

 

 

Thanks, I didn't realise those were available in PHEV form (the BEV version's so obvious on the road, given its 'grill', whereas PHEVs are harder to spot!).

 

The place at which I'm driving the Outlander tomorrow is also the local Hyundai dealer, so will see if they've got an Ioniq of any type - simply for looking at size at this point, as I'm not sure how feasible it is to go much smaller than our current 6 wagon, given the brats are only getting larger...


kingdragonfly
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  #2219663 17-Apr-2019 09:45
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jonathan18:

Apparently NZ will be getting a fully electric version of MG's small 'SUV' next year



I forgot Morris Garages is now owned by the Shanghai-based SAIC Motor.

MG quality has never been great, and I'm guessing it's not going to improve.

jonathan18
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  #2219678 17-Apr-2019 10:01
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kingdragonfly:
jonathan18:

 

Apparently NZ will be getting a fully electric version of MG's small 'SUV' next year



I forgot Morris Garages is now owned by the Shanghai-based SAIC Motor.

MG quality has never been great, and I'm guessing it's not going to improve.

 

Yep, I've now read some reviews of the petrol models, and they're not too promising!

 

Decent interior space, in particular a large boot; pretty basic interior (hard plastics etc); lack of many active safety features, even on top models (only 3* NCAP). They're not too enamoured with the engines (particularly the 1.5) or gearbox, but that's not relevant to the EV version  - we'll have to wait to see what they do in regards to the EV-specific components but high possibility of them being mediocre like the rest of the car.


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