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kingdragonfly
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  #2219793 17-Apr-2019 12:00
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I saw some comments that this would likely need hardware updates to existing cars, and obviously a faster charge means charging station infrastrucutre would need to handle higher currents.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/15/gbatteries-let-you-charge-your-car-as-quickly-as-visiting-the-pump/

GBatteries let you charge your car as quickly as visiting the pump
by John Biggs

A [Silicon Valley-based startup accelerator Y Combinator, "YC"] company called GBatteries has come out of stealth with a bold claim: they can recharge an electric car as quickly as it takes to fill up a tank of gas.

Created by aerospace engineer Kostya Khomutov, electrical engineers Alex Tkachenko and Nick Sherstyuk, and CCO Tim Sherstyuk, the company is funded by the likes of Airbus Ventures, Initialized Capital, Plug and Play and SV Angel.

The system uses AI to optimize the charging systems in electric cars.

“Most companies are focused on developing new chemistries or materials (ex. Enevate, Storedot) to improve charging speed of batteries. Developing new materials is difficult, and scaling up production to the needs of automotive companies requires billions of $,” said Khomutov. “Our technology is a combination of software algorithms (AI) and electronics, that works with off-the-shelf Li-ion batteries that have already been validated, tested, and produced by battery manufacturers. Nothing else needs to change.”

The team makes some bold claims. The product allows users to charge a 60kWh EV battery pack with 119 miles of range in 5 minutes as compared to 15 miles in 5 minutes today. “The technology works with off-the-shelf lithium ion batteries and existing fast charge infrastructure by integrating via a patented self-contained adapter on a car charge port,” writes the team. They demonstrated their product at CES this year.

Most charging systems depend on fairly primitive systems for topping up batteries. Various factors — including temperature — can slow down or stop a charge. GBatteries manages this by setting a very specific charging model that “slows down” and “speeds up” the charge as necessary. This allows the charge to go much faster under the right conditions.

The company bloomed out of frustration.

“We’ve always tinkered with stuff together since before I was even a teenager, and over time had created a burgeoning hardware lab in our basement,” said Tim Sherstyuk. “While I was studying Chemistry at Carleton University in Ottawa, we’d often debate and discuss why batteries in our phones got so bad so rapidly — you’d buy a phone, and a year later it would almost be unusable because the battery degraded so badly.”

“This sparked us to see if we can solve the problem by somehow extending the cycle life of batteries and achieve better performance, so that we’d have something that lasts. We spent a few weeks in our basement lab wiring together a simple control system along with an algorithm to charge a few battery cells, and after 6 months of testing and iterations we started seeing a noticeable difference between batteries charged conventionally, and ones using our algorithm. A year and a half later of constant iterations and development, we applied and were accepted in 2014 into YC.”

While it’s not clear when this technology will hit commercial vehicles, it could be the breakthrough we all need to start replacing our gas cars with something a little more environmentally friendly.

MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2219922 17-Apr-2019 14:52
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kingdragonfly: I saw some comments that this would likely need hardware updates to existing cars, and obviously a faster charge means charging station infrastrucutre would need to handle higher currents.

The team makes some bold claims. The product allows users to charge a 60kWh EV battery pack with 119 miles of range in 5 minutes as compared to 15 miles in 5 minutes today. “The technology works with off-the-shelf lithium ion batteries and existing fast charge infrastructure by integrating via a patented self-contained adapter on a car charge port,” writes the team. They demonstrated their product at CES this year.

Most charging systems depend on fairly primitive systems for topping up batteries. Various factors — including temperature — can slow down or stop a charge. GBatteries manages this by setting a very specific charging model that “slows down” and “speeds up” the charge as necessary. This allows the charge to go much faster under the right conditions.

 

If only this were legit!

 

Unfortunately the laws of physics would suggest that these guys are pulling a con.  To charge a 60kWh battery with 119 miles of range in 5 minutes while using an AI algorithm to speed up and slow down the charge is almost certainly nonsense.  If we are talking about putting ~50% charge into a 60kWh battery in 5 minutes (119 miles of range would be somewhere around there) then that suggests that 30kWh would be added in 5 minutes, this would require an AVERAGE of 600kW of power to flow over those 5 minutes.  If an AI Algorithm is slowing down and speeding up the charge current then the peak power would clearly need to be much more than 600kW.

 

So, how easily can we upgrade our 50kW chargers to over 600kW?

 

And how easily can current batteries handle 10C charge rates?

 

Certainly I've heard of the concept of pulse charging, which is supposed to allow higher charge rates without heating the batteries as much, but that doesn't mean you can increase the charge rate by such a drastic amount.


 
 
 
 


SaltyNZ
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  #2219925 17-Apr-2019 15:00
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MarkH67:

 

If only this were legit!

 

 

 

Tsk. Didn't you know that AI trumps physics?




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


wellygary
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  #2219967 17-Apr-2019 15:13
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SaltyNZ:
MarkH67:

 

If only this were legit!

 

Tsk. Didn't you know that AI trumps physics?

 

Plus its from a startup in an accelerator, that has "come out of stealth"- pah, the laws of physics don't apply to Venture Capitalists... especially if they are about to go into a funding round....

 

but yeah, to dump 30Kwh into a battery in 5 minutes means a much higher peak power output than most current chargers are able to provide....

 

 


Beccara
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  #2220002 17-Apr-2019 16:04
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If I had a $1 for every new battery tech announcement I could afford one of the new Roadster's





Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

frankv
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  #2220570 18-Apr-2019 13:24
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MarkH67:

 

kingdragonfly: I saw some comments that this would likely need hardware updates to existing cars, and obviously a faster charge means charging station infrastrucutre would need to handle higher currents.

The team makes some bold claims. The product allows users to charge a 60kWh EV battery pack with 119 miles of range in 5 minutes as compared to 15 miles in 5 minutes today. “The technology works with off-the-shelf lithium ion batteries and existing fast charge infrastructure by integrating via a patented self-contained adapter on a car charge port,” writes the team. They demonstrated their product at CES this year.

Most charging systems depend on fairly primitive systems for topping up batteries. Various factors — including temperature — can slow down or stop a charge. GBatteries manages this by setting a very specific charging model that “slows down” and “speeds up” the charge as necessary. This allows the charge to go much faster under the right conditions.

 

If only this were legit!

 

 

Sounds like 100mpg magnetic fuel alignment devices and hydrogen injection for ICE.

 

 


kingdragonfly
5117 posts

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  #2220841 18-Apr-2019 20:08
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Usually upbeat, this "Fully Charged" show is a bit of a rant
  • new Ford's
  • hybrid rant
  • a Darwin Award for a stupid death
  • confusing Tesla pricing


 
 
 
 


kingdragonfly
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  #2223350 24-Apr-2019 19:56
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How Tesla make profit from cars they've already sold

Nicolas Raimo:

Tesla are VERY clever in the way they make there cars all software locked.

Doing this they can make money from cars they have already sold even if they never see that car again.
The biggest one we know of is autopilot can be added to a tesla years after its sold due to it having hardware already there.

Also since making this video Tesla will now software lock smaller battery pack sizes.

Tesla could also decide to charge for performance upgrades over the air they have been very clever and this in my mind is why there the most forward thinking car firm out there
]


gzt

gzt
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  #2223468 25-Apr-2019 08:46
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Dingbatt
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  #2224511 25-Apr-2019 11:39
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kingdragonfly: Usually upbeat, this "Fully Charged" show is a bit of a rant
  • new Ford's
  • hybrid rant
  • a Darwin Award for a stupid death
  • confusing Tesla pricing

......snip YouTube....


Yes. Poor old Robert gets quite exercised in this video, particularly about Toyota's Self Charging Hybrid, something that other manufacturers of non plug-in hybrids have also started using. While I consider it marketing BS, the ads he gets most het up about do point out one of the only things an EV can be attacked on, and that is charge times mid journey. He says "just go and do something else", but the point is, you have to go and find something else to do while it's charging. Unless you want to stand beside it while it charges (apparently, the ad, not shown here, has an EV owner standing beside his vehicle while it charges as a Petrol/Electric Hybrid Owner breezes past in his vehicle.)
If you are too stupid to know where your vehicle ultimately gets its energy from (Toyota is a self charging hybrid not EV), then I have a pile of gold in Nigeria that is waiting for you to collect. All I need from you is your bank account details and a small finders fee........




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2224759 25-Apr-2019 13:07
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Dingbatt: the only things an EV can be attacked on, and that is charge times mid-journey. He says "just go and do something else", but the point is, you have to go and find something else to do while it's charging. Unless you want to stand beside it while it charges

 

This is an issue with my 24kWh Leaf, I do tend to sit in the car reading a book (on my smartphone) while it charges.  But with newer EVs like the 64kWh Kona with a 400+ km range - you don't need to stop to charge at all on short or even medium length journeys.  On long journeys, you would find that after driving for more than 300km you have no trouble finding "something else" to do while the car charges, you have been driving for long enough that your bladder is full and your stomach is empty for a start.


SaltyNZ
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  #2224800 25-Apr-2019 13:15
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MarkH67:

Dingbatt: the only things an EV can be attacked on, and that is charge times mid-journey. He says "just go and do something else", but the point is, you have to go and find something else to do while it's charging. Unless you want to stand beside it while it charges

 

This is an issue with my 24kWh Leaf, I do tend to sit in the car reading a book (on my smartphone) while it charges.  But with newer EVs like the 64kWh Kona with a 400+ km range - you don't need to stop to charge at all on short or even medium length journeys.  On long journeys, you would find that after driving for more than 300km you have no trouble finding "something else" to do while the car charges, you have been driving for long enough that your bladder is full and your stomach is empty for a start.

 

 

Exactly: this is a problem for early adopters like ourselves, but anyone who buys an EV in a couple of years will be getting 60kWh+ as standard.




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


Dingbatt
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  #2224806 25-Apr-2019 13:23
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My point really was the only 'needle' points EVs can be attacked on at the moment are price, charging and range. And if price is not a factor for someone, then neither will range. I wouldn't be surprised if the next ad shows an EV driver waiting 20 minutes for the next available charger. As both battery technology and price improve, and charging infrastructure also becomes more ubiquitous then these needle points will diminish. However, your 20 minute quick stop may be a bit longer if you let your 64kWh Kona get too low.
It's absolutely pointless for EV owners to get upset by advertising that shows one of the current pitfalls of EV ownership.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

wellygary
5004 posts

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  #2224808 25-Apr-2019 13:29
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SaltyNZ: Exactly: this is a problem for early adopters like ourselves, but anyone who buys an New EV in a couple of years will be getting 60kWh+ as standard.

 

Fixed that for you,

 

There will still be plenty of  less than 60Kwh EVs being bought in countries like NZ that have an open market for importing second hand vehicles...


kingdragonfly
5117 posts

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  #2224988 25-Apr-2019 18:41
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To me, it looks like there's never going to be an autonomous vehicle that isn't also an elctric vehicle.

Some might find KPMG report interesting, via a PDF at the bottom of this website.

New Zealand is ranked #11


New Zealand’s strong government performance partly counteracts lack of scale domestic manufacturing, the country has opportunities in software agriculture.

New Zealand a reputation as place to develop new technologies, although further development often takes elsewhere. Ohmio, company that staged trials its driverless minibuses at Christchurch airport, announced June 2018 joint venture with city Heshan China, which would see manufacturing much research to move to that city.

The government is working encourage early-stage work. Transport Agency identified an area was ‘red-zoned’ (categorized for redevelopment after damage city’s 2011 earthquake) location Mobility Lab, trial AVs. already used by companies testing Cora, autonomous flying taxi.

New Zealand does not manufacture vehicles or carry out mainstream development, market small many technology are foreign-owned. In index, scores low on number AV industry investments, despite both being calculated per capita. country’s population density provide particular challenges adoption: there little current justification management infrastructure mainly quiet roads, mobile networks patchy mixture cars from Europe second-hand imports Asia. Istvan Csorogi, Director, Advisory, KPMG Zealand, says this will make it harder introduce However, have excellent governance, recognized third policy legislation high AV-focused agencies, effectiveness legislative process quality judicial system. “well-placed readiness AVs due our robust regulatory business environment,” Richard Cross, Manager, Strategic Innovation, Ministry Transport. Our relatively size compared other countries means we can be agile. regulators can-do attitude focus finding solutions removing barriers.”...


2019 Autonomous Vehicles Readiness Index

Ranking 25 countries in the race for driverless cars and trucks

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2019/02/2019-autonomous-vehicles-readiness-index.html

direct link to PDF

https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2019/02/2019-autonomous-vehicles-readiness-index.pdf

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