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tripper1000
1248 posts

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  #2271775 8-Jul-2019 11:51
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The achievement of making a big swept up "yankee supertank" is in making more profit which finances the next, progressively more affordable, generation of EV. This is a well published strategy of Tesla. The first Tesla was a completely un-necessary but highly desirable car, that barely anyone could afford. As new models have been released they have been progressively more practical and more affordable.

 

The Model 3 barely (if at all) qualifies as a supertank.

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2271776 8-Jul-2019 11:52
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Obraik:

 

GV27:

 

Linuxluver:

 

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.  

 

Is the 0 - 60 time the only thing that matters? There's a lot to be saidabout  the build quality for the price of a Tesla S, which is still astronomical. 

 

 

 

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

You mean Panasonic? Yes, true


 
 
 
 


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2271780 8-Jul-2019 11:56
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

You mean Panasonic? Yes, true

 

 

The battery is designed by both Tesla and Panasonic and manufactured by Panasonic in Tesla's Gigafactory

 

How the battery is used in the car, the motor and the aerodynamics are all engineered by Tesla and what is keeping them ahead of everyone else.


tdgeek
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  #2271783 8-Jul-2019 12:00
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

You mean Panasonic? Yes, true

 

 

The battery is designed by both Tesla and Panasonic and manufactured by Panasonic in Tesla's Gigafactory

 

How the battery is used in the car, the motor and the aerodynamics are all engineered by Tesla and what is keeping them ahead of everyone else.

 

 

LOL ok, its not much to do with Panasonic, ok. It sounds more and more like Apple.


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2271784 8-Jul-2019 12:02
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tdgeek:

 

LOL ok, its not much to do with Panasonic, ok. It sounds more and more like Apple.

 

 

Tesla refers to themselves as a tech company, so yeah...they are somewhat like Apple, Microsoft, etc.


tdgeek
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  #2271785 8-Jul-2019 12:07
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Linuxluver:

 

 

 

 

Steve, at your leisure, can you fold down the back seats in your Leaf and measure the rear hatch space? I assume it will be a rhomboid shape. Im looking at getting a run around for golf, as I hardly use my motorbike anymore as I work from home, and being a large bike it costs to keep on the road for what is a few km per year now. An older Leaf would do the trick nicely of it can fit my clubs and trundler 

 

I dont know anyone here in ChCh with one


tdgeek
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  #2271787 8-Jul-2019 12:08
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

LOL ok, its not much to do with Panasonic, ok. It sounds more and more like Apple.

 

 

Tesla refers to themselves as a tech company, so yeah...they are somewhat like Apple, Microsoft, etc.

 

 

Thats not what I meant, but ok, all good


 
 
 
 


GV27
2389 posts

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  #2271798 8-Jul-2019 12:15
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Obraik:

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

The Ioniq is widely acknowledged to be one of the most efficient EV designs, even as a Gen 1 product. 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/04/hyundais-kona-ioniq-evs-top-the-range-efficiency-charts/


WyleECoyoteNZ
795 posts

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  #2271799 8-Jul-2019 12:15
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Obraik:

 

GV27:

 

Linuxluver:

 

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.  

 

Is the 0 - 60 time the only thing that matters? There's a lot to be saidabout  the build quality for the price of a Tesla S, which is still astronomical. 

 

 

 

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

I'd bet that the Audi's and Jag's not having the range of the Model S is more the marketing departments doing rather than Audi & Jag not being able to do it.

 

If the Model S is at the the upper limits of range (is it? I don't know), when you're Jaguar you come into the market with a entry level EV, and as you introduce more models, range will increase. To be fair, the Jaguar I Pace's (292 miles) rival is the Model X (315 miles) more than the Model S. The Model S has that large car segment all to itself for the time being.

 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/longest-range-electric-cars-ev/

 

 

 

 


jonathan18
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  #2271802 8-Jul-2019 12:19
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tdgeek:

 

You mean Panasonic? Yes, true

 

 

Not sure if you're simply trolling here?

 

Not sure, also, whether you watched the video discussing a company's tear-down of a Model X or S that was linked to on one of these threads, where it was acknowledged the Tesla motor design was distinctly different from its competition; also, it's been pointed out that they've made changes to improve its efficiency.

 

Ie, it's the Tesla's motor design rather than the batteries that results in their cars' superior km per kWh compared to Jaguar et al. (Not that this would stop me getting the Jaguar if I ever win Lotto - I like the idea of an EV that handles well compared to most cars, not just other EVs!)


tdgeek
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  #2271808 8-Jul-2019 12:36
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jonathan18:

 

tdgeek:

 

You mean Panasonic? Yes, true

 

 

Not sure if you're simply trolling here?

 

Not sure, also, whether you watched the video discussing a company's tear-down of a Model X or S that was linked to on one of these threads, where it was acknowledged the Tesla motor design was distinctly different from its competition; also, it's been pointed out that they've made changes to improve its efficiency.

 

Ie, it's the Tesla's motor design rather than the batteries that results in their cars' superior km per kWh compared to Jaguar et al. (Not that this would stop me getting the Jaguar if I ever win Lotto - I like the idea of an EV that handles well compared to most cars, not just other EVs!)

 

 

Not trolling, just is it Tesla with all the smarts or Panasonic? Panasonic know batteries. And you would include EV tech? I have no doubt that they are in front, but did Tesla design all this from scratch? And why partner with Panasonic, there is no need to, to ensure battery supply. If this was the first EV model out, totally new, then that would be different, but I'm a little sceptical where Tesla actually fits in. What extra would I need to spend on another car to make up the range shortfall? Will their 64kW unit got 33% farther?


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2271811 8-Jul-2019 12:38
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

I'd bet that the Audi's and Jag's not having the range of the Model S is more the marketing departments doing rather than Audi & Jag not being able to do it.

 

If the Model S is at the the upper limits of range (is it? I don't know), when you're Jaguar you come into the market with a entry level EV, and as you introduce more models, range will increase. To be fair, the Jaguar I Pace's (292 miles) rival is the Model X (315 miles) more than the Model S. The Model S has that large car segment all to itself for the time being.

 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/longest-range-electric-cars-ev/

 

 

 

 

So they're purposely making a large vehicle with limited range?  That seems unlikely.  The Ipace is actually a little bit lighter than the Model S


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2271816 8-Jul-2019 12:55
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GV27:

 

Obraik:

 

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world.  No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet.  Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.  

 

 

The Ioniq is widely acknowledged to be one of the most efficient EV designs, even as a Gen 1 product. 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/04/hyundais-kona-ioniq-evs-top-the-range-efficiency-charts/

 

 

I forgot about the Ioniq actually.  Still, the Model 3 is quite a bit heavier (1645kg) than the Ioniq (1435kg) yet it has a MPGe of 134 vs the Ioniqs 136.  Not a whole lot in it given the difference in weight.


GV27
2389 posts

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  #2271817 8-Jul-2019 13:05
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Obraik:

 

I forgot about the Ioniq actually.  Still, the Model 3 is quite a bit heavier (1645kg) than the Ioniq (1435kg) yet it has a MPGe of 134 vs the Ioniqs 136.  Not a whole lot in it given the difference in weight.

 

 

Not a lot, but it's still a pretty clear demonstration that efficiency is not the sole preserve of Tesla. Will be curious to see what the Gen 2 Ioniq brings to the table given the tidy-up around the front-end. 

 

Of course I'd have a TM3 in a heartbeat as a daily driver. But let's also not pretend the rest of the industry has been standing still for the past seven years. 


Obraik
785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2271820 8-Jul-2019 13:12
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GV27:

 

Obraik:

 

I forgot about the Ioniq actually.  Still, the Model 3 is quite a bit heavier (1645kg) than the Ioniq (1435kg) yet it has a MPGe of 134 vs the Ioniqs 136.  Not a whole lot in it given the difference in weight.

 

 

Not a lot, but it's still a pretty clear demonstration that efficiency is not the sole preserve of Tesla. Will be curious to see what the Gen 2 Ioniq brings to the table given the tidy-up around the front-end. 

 

Of course I'd have a TM3 in a heartbeat as a daily driver. But let's also not pretend the rest of the industry has been standing still for the past seven years. 

 

 

I really hope VW can do something good with their ID lineup.  I'm obviously a fan of Tesla but they need serious competition at the higher end to keep them innovating.  Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes haven't got there yet and Nissan is still bringing out new vehicles without any active battery management. At the moment it really seems like if you're buying a new EV you're best to get either a Tesla or something from Korea.


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