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tdgeek
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  #2271876 8-Jul-2019 14:50
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Obraik:

 

 

 

I don't think Tesla want to be taken over by one of the incumbents.  Part of their whole thing is they started as an EV company and that's all they make - they're not tarnished with the history of making ICE vehicles.  A lot of their fanbase/customerbase comes from that. 

 

Tesla isn't actually doing too badly when it comes to EV large-scale manufacturing.  No other manufacture is making as many EVs as Tesla.

 

 

That is SO misleading. No one else wanted to go in big with EV's. Imagine if any other one started manufacturing in 2012, they would all be well ahead. Wait till the big boys jump on the bandwagon. Yes, Tesla has done the heavy lifting for them, for sure

 

Tesla dont just make EV's. The make all sorts of stuff, want to dig into a mine in Thailand? All sorts of stuff. Car manufacturers are car manufacturers. Tarnished? That is such a weird thing to say


GV27
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  #2271879 8-Jul-2019 14:53
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Obraik:

 

VW gets the batteries for those from Samsung.  They're also terrible value for money.

 

 

My understanding is the VW/Samsung relationship is pretty much stuffed, mostly due to SDI backpedaling on supply agreements for the ID. It looked like SDI was going to make a jump with graphene, but nothing ever came of it and VW started throwing cash at QuantumScape in a big way.


 
 
 
 


Obraik
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  #2271885 8-Jul-2019 15:11
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

I don't think Tesla want to be taken over by one of the incumbents.  Part of their whole thing is they started as an EV company and that's all they make - they're not tarnished with the history of making ICE vehicles.  A lot of their fanbase/customerbase comes from that. 

 

Tesla isn't actually doing too badly when it comes to EV large-scale manufacturing.  No other manufacture is making as many EVs as Tesla.

 

 

That is SO misleading. No one else wanted to go in big with EV's. Imagine if any other one started manufacturing in 2012, they would all be well ahead. Wait till the big boys jump on the bandwagon. Yes, Tesla has done the heavy lifting for them, for sure

 

Tesla dont just make EV's. The make all sorts of stuff, want to dig into a mine in Thailand? All sorts of stuff. Car manufacturers are car manufacturers. Tarnished? That is such a weird thing to say

 

 

Your last question is answered by your first sentence, assuming you're correct and the large incumbents didn't want to go big with EVs and make the cars Tesla owners want rather than just not having the capacity to do it.  Since the only vehicles Tesla makes are EVs they didn't have to worry about "hurting" sales of other lines and hold back on their EV investments.


GV27
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  #2271889 8-Jul-2019 15:16
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Obraik:

 

Your last question is answered by your first sentence, assuming you're correct and the large incumbents didn't want to go big with EVs and make the cars Tesla owners want rather than just not having the capacity to do it.  Since the only vehicles Tesla makes are EVs they didn't have to worry about "hurting" sales of other lines and hold back on their EV investments.

 

 

They apparently don't have to worry about meeting production targets or delivery deadlines either. They also seem to be constantly playing silly buggers with their pricing and they are still largely reliant on subsidies to make their cars 'affordable'.

 

I'm not saying Tesla hasn't achieved anything, but there is a tonne of money around the world being thrown at EV tech and things are changing quickly; see this in the last few days:

 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/07/volkswagen-will-share-electric-car-platform-with-ford-says-reuters/


GV27
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  #2271896 8-Jul-2019 15:20
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A new player has entered the arena:

 

https://insideevs.com/news/358449/mg-zs-ev-seen-dc-fast-charging/

 

Liquid cooling. Wonder if we are likely to get this here given MG has just relaunched locally. 


Obraik
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  #2271898 8-Jul-2019 15:23
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GV27:

 

They apparently don't have to worry about meeting production targets or delivery deadlines either. They also seem to be constantly playing silly buggers with their pricing and they are still largely reliant on subsidies to make their cars 'affordable'.

 

I'm not saying Tesla hasn't achieved anything, but there is a tonne of money around the world being thrown at EV tech and things are changing quickly; see this in the last few days:

 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/07/volkswagen-will-share-electric-car-platform-with-ford-says-reuters/

 

 

Except they have been meeting their production targets, and actually ended up exceeding them in the quarter just finished.  The recent price changes have been due to Trump's tariffs on parts made in China - not a whole lot they can do about that.  Other price changes have been due to adding new SKUs to the lineup - something all car companies do.

 

I wouldn't expect to see Ford vehicles based on VWs platform for a few years - at least not until VW actually gets a chance to start making their own cars on the platform.


tdgeek
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  #2271900 8-Jul-2019 15:28
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Obraik:

 

 

 

Your last question is answered by your first sentence, assuming you're correct and the large incumbents didn't want to go big with EVs and make the cars Tesla owners want rather than just not having the capacity to do it.  Since the only vehicles Tesla makes are EVs they didn't have to worry about "hurting" sales of other lines and hold back on their EV investments.

 

 

No I havent, it went over your head. You make out that Tesla has out produced everyone else, as if they are the best. The others chose not to jump in first. Id wager to reduce R+D as cheaper to hive off the others making the tech work. Let others re invent the wheel. It wont hurt sales anyway as if they sell their EV or an ICE it doesnt matte. Far far cheaper to build off others efforts


 
 
 
 


GV27
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  #2271902 8-Jul-2019 15:31
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Obraik:

 

Except they have been meeting their production targets, and actually ended up exceeding them in the quarter just finished.  The recent price changes have been due to Trump's tariffs on parts made in China - not a whole lot they can do about that.  Other price changes have been due to adding new SKUs to the lineup - something all car companies do.

 

 

The quarter just finished. Let's ignore how late the RHD Model 3 is, or the fate of the $35K Model 3, or the deliberate gimping of M3 range to fit under subsidy thresholds in some markets. 

 

Yes, they've achieved stuff. But it's like people are determined to avoid any actual scrutiny when they miss the mark on something. It's weird. 


Obraik
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  #2271909 8-Jul-2019 15:38
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GV27:

 

Obraik:

 

Except they have been meeting their production targets, and actually ended up exceeding them in the quarter just finished.  The recent price changes have been due to Trump's tariffs on parts made in China - not a whole lot they can do about that.  Other price changes have been due to adding new SKUs to the lineup - something all car companies do.

 

 

The quarter just finished. Let's ignore how late the RHD Model 3 is, or the fate of the $35K Model 3, or the deliberate gimping of M3 range to fit under subsidy thresholds in some markets. 

 

Yes, they've achieved stuff. But it's like people are determined to avoid any actual scrutiny when they miss the mark on something. It's weird. 

 

 

The RHD Model 3 was always slated for 2019 and the $35k Model 3 is also available for purchase.  From a consumers perspective, Tesla making a spec that suits Canada's rules for a subsidy is a good thing - what issue do you have with that?

 

There are some valid things to pick at Tesla about (such as their service center rollouts and parts manufacturing) but the things you're picking are not accurate.


GV27
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  #2271929 8-Jul-2019 16:26
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Obraik:

 

The RHD Model 3 was always slated for 2019 and the $35k Model 3 is also available for purchase.  From a consumers perspective, Tesla making a spec that suits Canada's rules for a subsidy is a good thing - what issue do you have with that?

 

 

The ordering page for the Model 3 had the date changed a couple of times. I know because I was hitting it almost daily. 

 

As for the $35K Model 3: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/12/18307583/tesla-original-plan-tesla-model-3-base-model

 

As for the Canadian spec - it can't ever be 'upgraded' to the actual range. So not only do they take the subsidy, they're selling a crippled product to do it. 

 

https://electrek.co/2019/05/02/tesla-model-3-range-upgrade-canada/

 

The Model 3 Standard Range versions with 150 km and 350 km of range are both already software-locked version of the Model 3 Standard Range Plus. All the different software-locked range options are determined by Tesla and as long as they offer a base version for less than $45,000 they can offer other version and get access to the $5,000 incentive up to $55,000 total MSRP.

 

If Tesla decides to reduce the range to 150 km, it’s because they don’t want to sell that version of the vehicle.

 

Seems like a dick move tbh. Meanwhile good-guy Nissan tries to offer you more range than the poor Leaf can safely supply 😅


Obraik
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  #2271931 8-Jul-2019 16:38
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GV27:

 

The ordering page for the Model 3 had the date changed a couple of times. I know because I was hitting it almost daily. 

 

As for the $35K Model 3: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/12/18307583/tesla-original-plan-tesla-model-3-base-model

 

As for the Canadian spec - it can't ever be 'upgraded' to the actual range. So not only do they take the subsidy, they're selling a crippled product to do it. 

 

https://electrek.co/2019/05/02/tesla-model-3-range-upgrade-canada/

 

The Model 3 Standard Range versions with 150 km and 350 km of range are both already software-locked version of the Model 3 Standard Range Plus. All the different software-locked range options are determined by Tesla and as long as they offer a base version for less than $45,000 they can offer other version and get access to the $5,000 incentive up to $55,000 total MSRP.

 

If Tesla decides to reduce the range to 150 km, it’s because they don’t want to sell that version of the vehicle.

 

Seems like a dick move tbh. Meanwhile good-guy Nissan tries to offer you more range than the poor Leaf can safely supply 😅

 

 

It's still a $35k Model 3, though. Infact, it's better value than the original plan since everything is software limited. Physically, the cabin of the car is the same as even the most expensive Model 3.  It also means later down the road if you decide you want the premium features you can pay a fee and have the rest of the features unlocked.

 

I think you're confusing the Canada thing.  Canada's government stipulates that people can only get a subsidy on their EV purchase if the manufacturer has a config for that car on its books that falls under a certain price point.  To enable all Model 3s to be eligible for a subsidy they created a SKU that in theory would be priced under that value.  While that particular model will never actually exist it means anyone buying a Tesla Model 3 in Canada can get a subsidy.  It's only a good thing for consumers.


GV27
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  #2271933 8-Jul-2019 16:44
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Obraik:

 

It's only a good thing for consumers.

 

 

It's a pretty terrible deal for taxpayers and someone who tries to buy an affordable Model 3 only to end up with a totally limited feature set that can never be expanded. 


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2271934 8-Jul-2019 16:49
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GV27:

 

It's a pretty terrible deal for taxpayers and someone who tries to buy an affordable Model 3 only to end up with a totally limited feature set that can never be expanded. 

 

 

If it convinces someone to buy a EV over an ICE vehicle then that's worth it in my opinion. Again, the special "Canada" version that was made for that price point doesn't actually exist so no one is actually going to end up with the "totally limited feature set"


Linuxluver

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  #2272081 8-Jul-2019 21:38
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

I don't think Tesla want to be taken over by one of the incumbents.  Part of their whole thing is they started as an EV company and that's all they make - they're not tarnished with the history of making ICE vehicles.  A lot of their fanbase/customerbase comes from that. 

 

Tesla isn't actually doing too badly when it comes to EV large-scale manufacturing.  No other manufacture is making as many EVs as Tesla.

 

 

That is SO misleading. No one else wanted to go in big with EV's. Imagine if any other one started manufacturing in 2012, they would all be well ahead. Wait till the big boys jump on the bandwagon. Yes, Tesla has done the heavy lifting for them, for sure

 

Tesla dont just make EV's. The make all sorts of stuff, want to dig into a mine in Thailand? All sorts of stuff. Car manufacturers are car manufacturers. Tarnished? That is such a weird thing to say

 



It's not misleading. Though other companies were making EVs in 2012.....no one else actually did what Tesla has done. Tesla built their own battery factory and 'invented' their own production process and wherever possible they make part in-house. No other company did that. Others have tried and the crashed-and-burned EV start-up list is growing steadily.

"Tarnished" may not be the right word....but it comes close. Companies who currently make a profit selling ICE are having very obvious difficulties making the shift change to EVs. The CEO of BMW got the boot this week for not being aggressive enough in moving to EVs. Why? BMW's existing car business is crashing and they don't have any EVs ready to fill the gap. They are only profitable today because of their finance arm and their motorcycles. So what's a better word than "Tarnished"? Crippled? Lumbered-with-stranded-ICE-assets? 

Many automakers are heading for the wall because they haven't done as Tesla did........and commit.





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


tdgeek
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  #2272100 8-Jul-2019 22:38
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Linuxluver:

 



It's not misleading. Though other companies were making EVs in 2012.....no one else actually did what Tesla has done. Tesla built their own battery factory and 'invented' their own production process and wherever possible they make part in-house. No other company did that. Others have tried and the crashed-and-burned EV start-up list is growing steadily.

"Tarnished" may not be the right word....but it comes close. Companies who currently make a profit selling ICE are having very obvious difficulties making the shift change to EVs. The CEO of BMW got the boot this week for not being aggressive enough in moving to EVs. Why? BMW's existing car business is crashing and they don't have any EVs ready to fill the gap. They are only profitable today because of their finance arm and their motorcycles. So what's a better word than "Tarnished"? Crippled? Lumbered-with-stranded-ICE-assets? 

Many automakers are heading for the wall because they haven't done as Tesla did........and commit.

 

 

What I meant was as Tesla started soon after Nissan, the others went at a much slower pace. the implication was that everyone was hard at it and Tesla won, thats nit what happened. Yes no others did it the way they did, or as much. I imagine due to needing to see a sales figure materialise, and that took a long time, we are just thinking about that now. Which is why many manufacturers have been setting up. NOW we see many models coming on stream, many prototypes. We are only just east the start of the bell curve

 

Tarnished as it was quoted means non green. I cant agree with that. We are not at a place now that means everything we do we can emit carbon or we can be green. We are not there, we are a long way from that. When we can say we will ban all ICE vehicles next year, then we are there. Thats not now, heaven forbid we all want it to be. 


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