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lxsw20
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  #2272112 9-Jul-2019 00:42
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VW managed to smash the 20 year old hill climb record set at Goodwood in an F1 car, in their electric beast: https://youtu.be/8il5ohB8FYk


Aredwood
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  #2272116 9-Jul-2019 01:57
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tripper1000:

Tesla is arguable behind in the car body manufacturing field. (Other people have been doing it for 100 years). Primarily this is due to them starting with a blank sheet of paper and little experience.  This is a good thing and a curse. Parts of their bodies have been poorly designed (eg the door handles) and other parts have been "over engineered" leading to avoidable expense, but being different to "normal" conventions has lead to better safety. The Model 3 is the "safest" car ever tested in North America.


But when it come to the Electric drive chain and batteries, everyone is starting from scratch and Tesla clearly has a 10 year head start on the pack. The others will catch up but when guys like VW are just starting out and others haven't even started yet, 10+ years it s a huge head start.


 


 



Except that other car companies also have body design issues. Things like weak central locking motors. That not only fail to lock and unlock the doors. But will sometimes leave the lock mechanism is a half locked state. Where you cant open the door and you cant manually lock or unlock it either.

Poorly designed wiring causing excessive voltage drop. Things like computers with poorly designed power supply circuits. So that if the battery is in less than perfect condition, you get issues like memory deletion, random trouble codes, going into “limp home” mode without setting any trouble codes. And in extreme cases, major failures.

Have heard that the Toyota Vitz suffers early automatic transmission failure if it has a weak car battery. As the memory in the gearbox ECU gets deleted on each engine start. And the gearbox then changes gears harshly, as it has a learning program to learn to change them smoothly. But it never gets to finish learning if the memory keeps getting deleted.

VE Holden Commodore that sometimes has the Check Engine light switch on if the outside temp is over 40deg and the aircon is running. Issue is that the alternator cant generate enough electricity at high ambient temperatures. And that is in a car that was marketed as being built for Australian conditions. They didn't realize that the weather in Australia is hot.

My Toyota Corolla, where if you locked the doors without them being fully closed. You could unlock a door just by pushing it fully closed.


In other words, Tesla dont need to make cars with perfectly designed body's and systems. As long established car companies cant even get their own cars perfect. And that is even in relation to items that have existed for many years.

And at least Tesla actually have a genuine commitment to safety. They have designed for safety from the beginning, they have been quick to issue recalls for even potential safety problems. While lots of other car manufacturers treat safety as an afterthought, or only do “enough”. Rather than doing everything that they can.

Meanwhile in my Mercedes Vito (which was considered a very safe van when it was released). If the engine stalls for any reason, you cant just turn the key to “Start” to restart the engine. You have to turn it completely off first, then turn it back on and then you can restart the engine. Except turning off the key, switches off power to the airbags and locks the steering wheel. But if you dont immediately restart the engine, you have no power steering and no brake assistance.

Now imagine that you are driving at high speed on a twisty road, or are in the middle of a dangerous intersection when the engine stalls. You are now far more likely to crash, yet you need to have the presence of mind to first do the opposite action to what you want to achieve (turning the key off first before you can restart the engine). But doing so exposes you to more hazards.

I'm amazed that Mercedes haven't been sued for wrongful death or injury over such a stupid setup. But they are still better than Mitsubishi and the L300.

Most of the mainstream car companies deserve to die. GM should already be dead (but they got bailed out).

And the others also have the penny pinching disease. Look at Nissan and Hyundai not making heatpump heating as standard on all of their Leaf and Kona EV models.





 
 
 
 


PhantomNVD
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  #2272121 9-Jul-2019 06:33
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wellygary
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  #2272122 9-Jul-2019 06:39
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the kicker is that the RUC Exemption is removed ,

So if the feebate is cost neutral across imports , this scheme is basically a reduction in the subsidy from government for EV users .

GV27
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  #2272124 9-Jul-2019 07:18
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People buying new cars definitely need subsidies that are more generous than in any other country, yep, absolutely. Won't someone think of old mate dropping $200K on a Model S? Bloke will basically be on skid row unless we get him $8k of taxpayer cash. 


tdgeek
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  #2272125 9-Jul-2019 07:23
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wellygary: the kicker is that the RUC Exemption is removed ,

So if the feebate is cost neutral across imports , this scheme is basically a reduction in the subsidy from government for EV users .

 

I just skimmed it now, its based on emissions not just EV's. Low to medium priced EV's get a better return, zero for Tesla, Kona priced EV's. Yes RUC is removed as it wasnt successful

 

I dont see how its free for taxpayers, if you need a larger car or are a tradie, get the chequebook out. It will help emissions though as it will push many to the smallest car they can manage, and help turn over older cars. Which this morning have halved in price as they are for the scrap heap, but that did need to happen.

 

This is an emissions goal not an EV move.


GV27
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  #2272126 9-Jul-2019 07:35
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tdgeek:

 

and help turn over older cars. Which this morning have halved in price as they are for the scrap heap, but that did need to happen.

 

 

There are more effective ways of doing this; e.g. cash for clunkers, rebates that are attached to the age/emissions profile of whatever you trade in, sliding scales or even just an outright cap on the vehicle values that qualify for the subsidy. 


 
 
 
 


PhantomNVD
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wellygary
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  #2272132 9-Jul-2019 08:04
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GV27:

People buying new cars definitely need subsidies that are more generous than in any other country, yep, absolutely. Won't someone think of old mate dropping $200K on a Model S? Bloke will basically be on skid row unless we get him $8k of taxpayer cash. 



The incentives Stop at 80K , although my worry is that it will basically kill Ev sales in 2020 while people wait , also there is a ramp down , which is going to push sales into the early years of the scheme

Ge0rge
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  #2272133 9-Jul-2019 08:13
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Weren't they talking about banning the Suzuki Swift because of safety issues? Now there's talk of a subsidy for buying them in?

tdgeek
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  #2272135 9-Jul-2019 08:20
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wellygary:
GV27:

 

People buying new cars definitely need subsidies that are more generous than in any other country, yep, absolutely. Won't someone think of old mate dropping $200K on a Model S? Bloke will basically be on skid row unless we get him $8k of taxpayer cash. 

 



The incentives Stop at 80K , although my worry is that it will basically kill Ev sales in 2020 while people wait , also there is a ramp down , which is going to push sales into the early years of the scheme

 

Its 2020 in 5 months, 2021 in 17 months. Right now there are few models of EV's you can pay and drive away, so there are waiting lists. By 2021 there should be a nice range here, so maybe the timing is about right. Some in this thread, while stating the virtues of emissions, are happy to wait, for a subsidy, and so it seems a bit disjointed at the moment. I'm looking for a new car, a new EV is hard to justify, these subsidies don't change that. Maybe look at a new PHEV? Maybe an older EV? Although I want new not older. I will probably get an older Leaf for the sole purpose of an extra car just for golf

 

A settling in period right now might be a good thing


kingdragonfly
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  #2272146 9-Jul-2019 08:35
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PhantomNVD: Finally the freebase news comes through!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=12247724&ref=twitter


Finally!

Aredwood
3885 posts

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  #2272212 9-Jul-2019 09:24
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tdgeek:

wellygary: the kicker is that the RUC Exemption is removed ,

So if the feebate is cost neutral across imports , this scheme is basically a reduction in the subsidy from government for EV users .


I just skimmed it now, its based on emissions not just EV's. Low to medium priced EV's get a better return, zero for Tesla, Kona priced EV's. Yes RUC is removed as it wasnt successful


I dont see how its free for taxpayers, if you need a larger car or are a tradie, get the chequebook out. It will help emissions though as it will push many to the smallest car they can manage, and help turn over older cars. Which this morning have halved in price as they are for the scrap heap, but that did need to happen.


This is an emissions goal not an EV move.



Except that it will also give subsidies for smaller ICE cars. So it is incredibly stupid paying subsidies to buy ICE cars. But some EV models not getting any subsidy.

And if you need a car with 7 seats, looks like nothing will get the subsidy. Yet another thing that will hurt Maori and Pacific Islanders the most.

The claimed emissions savings are unlikely to be achieved with what they have proposed anyway. As someone buying a little ICE car is not going to reduce their emissions much (and in some cases the new car may have higher carbon emissions than the old car) if their previous car was also a little ICE car.






tdgeek
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  #2272218 9-Jul-2019 09:40
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This would be compelling  https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/102727088/dont-diss-the-hybrid-says-toyota-as-it-launches-new-plugin-prius-prime?rm=a

 

At 48k and a price reduction coming, plus I assume a 6k subsidy, it might be a $40k commuter EV


kingdragonfly
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  #2272238 9-Jul-2019 09:56
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I like EV's because they are less complex, meaning less maintenance and less to break.

https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/686/what-self-charging-hybrid

Self-charging hybrids usually employ one or more electric motors to aid the performance of a car’s petrol or diesel engine.

Once the battery has acquired enough charge, a self-charging hybrid can use this additional energy to help the car gain speed, reducing the burden on the internal-combustion engine.

This has the effect of saving fuel, therefore improving fuel economy on typical journeys through towns and cities.

Most self-charging hybrids are also capable of moving under electric power alone for short distances, which is useful in slow-moving traffic and during manoeuvres like parallel parking. As well as conserving fuel, self-charging hybrids will reduce CO2 emissions, making them better for the environment.

Self-charging hybrids are so-named because you can't charge the battery externally: all the energy is harvested from either the engine, the brakes, or merely the act of slowing down.
...
While self-charging hybrids are likely to be a better prospect for some drivers than plug-in hybrids, it’s important to remember that they bring no efficiency benefits at motorway speeds. On fast roads, you're entirely reliant on the internal combustion engine, and if you travel cross-country a lot, then a pure petrol or diesel will be more suitable.

Because of their small batteries, self-charging hybrids can’t travel very far on electric power alone; usually no more than a mile or so. So if you frequently drive short distances and you can charge a car at home or at work, a plug-in hybrid might be a more cost-effective option. Not only will you save money by travelling on electric power rather than petrol or diesel, you’ll still have the option of driving further afield using conventional fuel should the need arise.

Finally, self-charging hybrids are unlikely to suit driving enthusiasts. Most self-charging hybrids are designed to save fuel and make driving a relaxing and pleasant experience, as opposed to an exciting or involving one.



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