EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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8218 posts

Uber Geek

#2285748 30-Jul-2019 14:07

frednz:

It's interesting that, in the case of the Kia Niro, the 40kWh model costs $68,000, but the 64kWh version costs only $6,000 more. You might have expected that, if batteries were so expensive, the 64kWh model would have cost a lot more than $6,000 above the 40kWh model.

I think there is a bit of cross subsidising going on with only a 6K price for 24KWh of Batteries,

In the US the difference between the Leaf and Leaf + is around 6-7K USD, or 10K NZD, (there are a few more bells and whistles but its mainly the battery difference)

BNEF say the cost of EV cells are around ~170 USD/kwh, so a 24kwh jump is $4100 USD whack on ~50% margin and you get 6K USD,

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Delphinus

611 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2285804 30-Jul-2019 15:24

I'd look at it the other way. If 24kWh extra batteries cost $6k (which is reasonable), that's about $250 per kWh. That means the 40kWh battery should be about $10k. But the price difference is $28k (compared to the base hybrid). And the hybrid has an electric motor AND a petrol engine.

All the manufacturers seem to be trying to recoup EV R&D costs from the early adopters.

langi27

667 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2285829 30-Jul-2019 16:21

I think its more likely they are tying to protect the ICE side of the business, everyone would jump onto EVs if they were a lot cheaper which presents many problems for car manufactures. They have billions ties up in plant that would become obsolete overnight, they have no where near enough manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand, existing ICE stock would be impossible to sell and a lot of people would be out of jobs including all in-direct people that provide services to the ICE products.

wellygary

8218 posts

Uber Geek

#2285832 30-Jul-2019 16:27

langi27:

I think its more likely they are tying to protect the ICE side of the business, everyone would jump onto EVs if they were a lot cheaper which presents many problems for car manufactures. They have billions ties up in plant that would become obsolete overnight, they have no where near enough manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand, existing ICE stock would be impossible to sell and a lot of people would be out of jobs including all in-direct people that provide services to the ICE products.

If that's the case why can't Tesla make a Model 3 for less than 70K NZ?,

I mean they got their Freemont Factory at a fire sale after the NUMMI JV fell over when GM went bust in the GFC... so their overheads are significantly cheaper that the legacy manufacturers....

If EVS were so much cheaper to make VC would be pouring money into dozens of startups churning out 20k USD cars.....

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2285838 30-Jul-2019 16:43

Delphinus:

All the manufacturers seem to be trying to recoup EV R&D costs from the early adopters.

No, that's not what's happening. What they are doing is sensibly pricing their products based on supply & demand. Obvious example: Hyundai has increased the price of the Kona and still can't keep up with the demand. The only conclusion we can draw here is that it is NOT overpriced.

What we need is increased production. As manufacturers have more cars to sell, they will lower the price to achieve the desired sales volume.

Just remember folks: companies have an obligation to their shareholders to maximise profits, so when demand out-strips supply they would be foolish to not raise prices. When supply increases they have no choice but to lower prices to increase the sales volume.

frednz

1467 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2285941 30-Jul-2019 18:46

MarkH67:

Delphinus:

All the manufacturers seem to be trying to recoup EV R&D costs from the early adopters.

No, that's not what's happening. What they are doing is sensibly pricing their products based on supply & demand. Obvious example: Hyundai has increased the price of the Kona and still can't keep up with the demand. The only conclusion we can draw here is that it is NOT overpriced.

What we need is increased production. As manufacturers have more cars to sell, they will lower the price to achieve the desired sales volume.

Just remember folks: companies have an obligation to their shareholders to maximise profits, so when demand out-strips supply they would be foolish to not raise prices. When supply increases they have no choice but to lower prices to increase the sales volume.

Because NZ is such a tiny market compared with overseas, Hyundai probably wouldn't mind if they didn't sell any Konas here at all, because the demand overseas is very high. So, from a NZ perspective, it's just a token offering from Hyundai to show they haven't completely forgotten about us. But because the overseas market is so important, Hyundai has attempted to discourage NZ buyers by selling the EV Kona at a ridiculously high price, and then even increased the price by $4,000 to push this point home.

The price of a petrol elite Kona is about $42,000 and the elite Kona EV is $84,000. To say the EV price is reasonable because a few enthusiasts have clunked out such big money is highly debatable!! If the price had been around $60,000, then I might conclude that the EV Kona isn't overpriced and I would have bought one if that was the case. So, there could be hundreds more people who would have bought the Kona if it hadn't been priced at such a ridiculously high level.

tripper1000

1604 posts

Uber Geek

#2286222 31-Jul-2019 09:09

Team, this is an EV news thread, not Google.

Why are Hyundai's EV's expensive= battery shortages due to rising world wide demand.

Why is no effort being made to sell them here - because they can more easily be sold else where for more profit.

Why are premium versions of products and services disproportionately more expensive - simple commerce and marketing.

old3eyes

9111 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2286280 31-Jul-2019 10:52

When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

Regards,

Old3eyes

wellygary

8218 posts

Uber Geek

#2286341 31-Jul-2019 11:24

old3eyes:

When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

its not the taxes that stop it,

Its actually illegal,

The Aust Government got heavied by the overseas manufacturers/local dealers in the wake of the closure of Car Manufacturing,

In 2017 iit was proposed that "near new" (less than 12 months and sub 500km) could be imported, but when the legislation was finally passed in 2018 this clause was absent,,,

Currently only returnees and specialists and enthusiasts can import used vehicles...

As a result NZ has more EVs that Australia , despite the larger and richer population over there....

old3eyes

9111 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2286355 31-Jul-2019 11:42

wellygary:

old3eyes:

When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

its not the taxes that stop it,

Its actually illegal,

The Aust Government got heavied by the overseas manufacturers/local dealers in the wake of the closure of Car Manufacturing,

In 2017 iit was proposed that "near new" (less than 12 months and sub 500km) could be imported, but when the legislation was finally passed in 2018 this clause was absent,,,

Currently only returnees and specialists and enthusiasts can import used vehicles...

As a result NZ has more EVs that Australia , despite the larger and richer population over there....

Looks like they've changed their laws in the past 15 years. When I worked for NEC in Auckland we had a Australian country manager who came from Melbourne for a four year term. Just before his first two years was up he bought two import BMWs to take back when the four years expired because if he had owned them for two years or longer they were tax free to take back. Most likely sold one when he got back for a nice profit.

Regards,

Old3eyes

SaltyNZ

8118 posts

Uber Geek

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2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2286908 1-Aug-2019 07:57

old3eyes:
When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

That and the fact that there are more fast chargers in Auckland than Australia.

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old3eyes

9111 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2286970 1-Aug-2019 09:33

SaltyNZ:
old3eyes:

When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

That and the fact that there are more fast chargers in Auckland than Australia.

And that would be because there are no cheap EV second hand imports in Ozz like NZ. As people here are always saying if you have the EVs the charger network will follow.

Regards,

Old3eyes

wellygary

8218 posts

Uber Geek

#2286988 1-Aug-2019 09:59

SaltyNZ:
old3eyes:

When I was in the Gold Coast about two weeks ago I saw two EVs in GC and Brisbane in two weeks, both Teslas. Guess the humungas tax on used imports stopped the importing of second hand Leafs from Japan and UK like NZ did.

That and the fact that there are more fast chargers in Auckland than Australia.

That "fact" gets run out every once in a while to bash our mates across the ditch, but its totally false,

I just looked on plugshare and only selected CHADEMO and CCS and I came up with 84 in Australia (114 if in include Tesla Superchargers)

Auckland does not have over 80 fast chargers...

tripper1000

1604 posts

Uber Geek

#2287059 1-Aug-2019 11:55

The fact remains though that Oz is way behind in EV uptake relative to the population difference.

SaltyNZ

8118 posts

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2degrees

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#2287095 1-Aug-2019 12:38

wellygary:

I just looked on plugshare and only selected CHADEMO and CCS and I came up with 84 in Australia (114 if in include Tesla Superchargers)

Auckland does not have over 80 fast chargers...

I'm sure you must be aware that I was somewhat exaggerating for effect, but the underlying message is true. If you go back to Plugshare and zoom in to the North Island only (closest I could get includes about 8 on the top of the South Island and cuts out a few more than that in Northland) you'll find there are over 120 CCS/CHADEMO fast chargers in the North Island alone. I count 92 for Australia all up.

I would not buy an EV with less than 60kWh capacity in Australia, and up till now your options for that have been almost exclusively Teslas.

Nothing much is going to happen in Australia with the current government. They are actively hostile to any action that might help reduce climate change and given the last election result you can only conclude that the population must be too, Zali Steggall notwithstanding.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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