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PolicyGuy
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  #2307324 28-Aug-2019 14:32
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PolicyGuy:

 

The National government promised that 30% of government agency vehicles would be EVs by 2025 IIRC, although it wasn't clear whether this meant that 30% of agency car-type vehicle purchases in 2025 would be EVs, or that the fleet would be 30% EVs by 2025. The former doesn't sound too difficult, but the latter would require agencies to be buying non-trivial numbers of EVs this year.

 

Anyone know where this sits in the current government's priority list?
Maybe I should write to James Shaw?

 

One of the big impacts will be the need to install at least slow chargers in agency car parks and garages to allow vehicles to be charged up overnight. I mentioned this to the Facilities Management folks at my former employing agency (no wonder I got retired 😂) and got the blank stare of incomprehension in return.
Presumably the larger fleet operators will need a couple of fast chargers in their main locations too.
That's a lot of car-park digging up and electrical installation upgrades

 

 

Well, it only took from 10th April until 27th August, but I did get an answer from Hon. Phil Twyford*

 

What are the government targets for EVs?


the Government is committed to the goal that by 2025/26, virtually all new vehicles entering the government's fleet should be emissions free, with exceptions limited to specialised vehicles where no practical emissions free alternative exists.

 

And what about charging infrastructure:


Regarding the State Sector's obligations to consider electric vehicle infrastructure in building refurbishments, the Government Property Group issues Building Performance Specifications (BPS) for New Government Office Accommodation Buildings. The BPS contains provisions and requirements for electric vehicle charging points and wiring at nominated parking bays to be incorporated in new buildings.

 

The NZ Government light vehicles emissions dashboard is here: https://www.procurement.govt.nz/broader-outcomes/reducing-emissions-and-waste/reducing-government-fleet-emissions/

 

 

 

 

 

* "Thank you for your email of 10 April 2019 to Hon James Shaw, Minister for Climate Change ... regarding electric vehicles in Government departments and agencies. Your correspondence was originally transferred to Hon David Parker as the then Minister for Economic Development, as the matter you have raised falls within that portfolio. Economic Development responsibilities, however, have recently shifted to me. Accordingly, your email has been forwarded to me for response."

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: add link


kingdragonfly
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  #2307387 28-Aug-2019 16:05
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http://evtv.me/2019/08/the-tesla-conspiracy-or-am-i-a-dead-whistleblower/

The Tesla Conspiracy… or Am I a Dead Whistleblower?

By Jack Rickard
...
[My US company "EVTV", petrol/"ICE" to electric car conversion,] has largely ceased to convert ICE cars to electric drive, which was long our only reason for life. ...

The outcome is assured ... and Tesla was largely the reason. Basically it costs between US $20-40,000 to do a good build converting an ICE car to electric drive.

Tilt and tittle at that all you want, I did a lot of them and a lot of different ways and several were over $100k. Not really unusual among custom car enthusiasts and I expect those guys will be doing electric conversion show cars 50 years from now.

The Model 3 at US $40k is a better car than I can do at $40k.

Tesla just owns it. And at this point, the moats of its battery technology and costing, its Supercharger network, it’s online sales model, the Over the Air Software Updates, and much much more put it SO far out ahead, that the other manufacturers are still announcing the “coming Tesla killer” aimed at the 2013 Tesla Model S. Problem: It is 2019.

And so we basically got out of converting EV’s before we got to the early adopter stage. I lied. Because the outcome is not just assured, it is unstoppable.

But if all else fails, the commonly held marker for the beginning of Everett Rogets adoption curve early adopter stage is 2.5% market penetration.

So where are we at? The current global market for automobiles is a little squishy on your definition of an automobile, but as a personal transportation device is currently widely regarded as 78 million units annually with about 15 million in the U.S.
...
The blue sky for Tesla is essentially unlimited. They can sell all they make and make all they sell starting at 360,000 units and topping out at 78 million. They are 0.46% of a $2.3 trillion dollar market. And they appear to my biased eye to already own all of it.
...

 
 
 
 


kingdragonfly
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  #2307394 28-Aug-2019 16:28
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Power Hungry Tesla Model X vs The World's Toughest Towing Test

The Fast Lane Car | Adventure X Ep. 2

Can a Tesla Model X Tow? Yes, but can it tow a maximum load up the world's toughest towing test up a mountain? That's the question that we set out to answer in this week's episode of TFL's new Adventure X video series.


Dingbatt
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  #2307414 28-Aug-2019 17:11
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That TFL ‘experiment’ was flawed in so many ways. From not towing the same way you would with an ICE, to not charging at the bottom of the mountain because they had a trailer connected.

 

Plenty of comments to that and more below the video.

 

 

 

Edit: It showed the Model X in a less favourable light than it deserved.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

Obraik
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  #2307510 28-Aug-2019 20:01
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Dingbatt:

 

That TFL ‘experiment’ was flawed in so many ways. From not towing the same way you would with an ICE, to not charging at the bottom of the mountain because they had a trailer connected.

 

Plenty of comments to that and more below the video.

 

 

 

Edit: It showed the Model X in a less favourable light than it deserved.

 

 

Wait until you see them try take it up a 4x4 track in the next video following that one 😂

 

Still, one favourable thing they did show was that it was the fastest and easiest they've ever been able to tow a trailer up that mountain. Of course, that was to the detriment of the range.


tdgeek
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  #2308199 30-Aug-2019 07:16
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What are the opinions on non plug in hybrids? I have a few friends of friends who have gone down this track.

 

 

 

We have one car and one motorbike. Works well for us, especially me in the summer :-)  However, I hardly use the bike now. Doesn't matter. But I have got back into golf, so I need another car. I thought Id get a cheapie, as it will literally only be used for golf, 3 weekends out of 4, and the odd mid week. It will literally be my golf "carT"  Hence just get a cheapie. Looking at a 2010 Nissan Note. That will fit, Im told, 2 sets of clubs and trundlers with the rear seats down. Mostly I just need 1 set, but 2 sets just in case. About $6.5k. I see the 2017 model is a non plug in hybrid. 1200cc petrol 3 cylinder engine that charges the battery. 2.9L/100km and a range of 1300km on the 47L gas tank. Regen braking, and the petrol engine can assist the EV. 40kW EV, 1.5kW battery.  Quite cool actually. At $18-$19k its an expensive golf car, but not out of the question. 

 

 

 

Good idea? Given the cost of pure EV's if new, this seems a good green option. An older Leaf is a similar price I think.

 

 

 

Thoughts? 

 

 


Dingbatt
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  #2308202 30-Aug-2019 07:32
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tdgeek:

 

What are the opinions on non plug in hybrids? I have a few friends of friends who have gone down this track.

 

 

 

We have one car and one motorbike. Works well for us, especially me in the summer :-)  However, I hardly use the bike now. Doesn't matter. But I have got back into golf, so I need another car. I thought Id get a cheapie, as it will literally only be used for golf, 3 weekends out of 4, and the odd mid week. It will literally be my golf "carT"  Hence just get a cheapie. Looking at a 2010 Nissan Note. That will fit, Im told, 2 sets of clubs and trundlers with the rear seats down. Mostly I just need 1 set, but 2 sets just in case. About $6.5k. I see the 2017 model is a non plug in hybrid. 1200cc petrol 3 cylinder engine that charges the battery. 2.9L/100km and a range of 1300km on the 47L gas tank. Regen braking, and the petrol engine can assist the EV. 40kW EV, 1.5kW battery.  Quite cool actually. At $18-$19k its an expensive golf car, but not out of the question. 

 

 

 

Good idea? Given the cost of pure EV's if new, this seems a good green option. An older Leaf is a similar price I think.

 

 

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

I have a non-plugin hybrid. It is my main car though. My Camry uses less fuel in every day running than our Swift. The best way to think about these cars though, is as efficient petrol vehicles not EVs. If all you are using it for is short trips to golf and can plug it in each night, then isn’t a Leaf, even one with slightly compromised range, a better bet?

 

 

 

Edit: As you have pointed out previously the payback on the extra cost of batteries in EVs is just not there in fuel savings. The same goes for hybrids unless you are doing a reasonable number of kms. Your use case probably doesn’t justify even a hybrid let alone an EV but there is something to be said for the intangibles. I didn’t particularly buy my car for ‘green’ reasons, but more for the smooth way it drives and the tech within. So there may be some of that in it for you. Would gliding along in an electric car, even just to golf, “bring you joy” (to borrow a phrase)?





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

 
 
 
 


kingdragonfly
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  #2308204 30-Aug-2019 07:44
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Hybrid plus side compared to EV:

* good range

* currently cheaper (will change when battery prices reduce, possible subsidy)

* since petrol engine running at narrower range, and intermittently, better for environment

Hybrid minus side compared to EV:

* more complexity

* more maintenance

* may have less performance than pure EV, in particular off-the-line torque.

The last thing to consider is think hard before buying used hybrid.

Repairs can be unbelievable expensive.

If you have a transmission problem, the repair cost could easily exceed value of car.

It's worth waiting a year to re-evaluate EVs, if possible.

MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2308208 30-Aug-2019 07:54
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Dingbatt:

 

 If all you are using it for is short trips to golf and can plug it in each night, then isn’t a Leaf, even one with slightly compromised range, a better bet?

 

 

That's the real question, what is the range required.  I'd agree that the Leaf is a great choice if it can comfortably handle the range required.  But the Leaf is kinda annoying to use when you travel too far and literally hours can be added to the trip through charging requirements.  Give it 4 or 5 years and there will be 2nd hand EVs with good range, but currently the cheaper EVs have quite a limiting short range.

 

I swicthed from a motorcycle to a Leaf for my commute (70km daily) and I don't regret it.  I get to work warm and dry without needing to put on, take off, put on & take off suitable riding gear.  I'm also saving ~2.5k per year.  But I'm planning on changing cars in ~4 years to a 2021 EV with 400+ km range that I'll be able to use for other trips that the Leaf really isn't all that practical for.

 

The hybrid Note isn't a bad option for someone that really needs more range than an under $20K EV can provide.  It can be used as a stepping stone to a longer range EV in a few years when they are available at a reasonable price.  With a Lotto win I wouldn't even consider ANY car that needs to burn fossil fuels, I'd buy a Tesla Model 3 performance with 560km range.  Without a Lotto win I just can't be spending that kind of money.  If I was buying a car right now and needed a good range at a price under $20k then I would possibly buy a hybrid Note.  The Note is a series hybrid, which I think is better than the Toyota hybrids in terms of being mechanically simpler, it also gives you the Leaf-like insta-torque which I really enjoy.

 

I'd recommend that tdgeek gives the Note a test drive.  Unless the range isn't required, then go with a Leaf instead.


tdgeek
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  #2308210 30-Aug-2019 07:58
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kingdragonfly: Hybrid plus side compared to EV:

* good range

* currently cheaper (will change when battery prices reduce, possible subsidy)

* since petrol engine running at narrower range, and intermittently, better for environment

Hybrid minus side compared to EV:

* more complexity

* more maintenance

* may have less performance than pure EV, in particular off-the-line torque.

The last thing to consider is think hard before buying used hybrid.

Repairs can be unbelievable expensive.

If you have a transmission problem, the repair cost could easily exceed value of car.

It's worth waiting a year to re-evaluate EVs, if possible.

 

The latter points are a worry!

 

We are evaluating, or at least I am, on a new EV, I would want to wait for a closer price parity, rather than buy an EV version pay double, which is where we are at now


MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2308217 30-Aug-2019 08:08
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tdgeek:

 

The latter points are a worry!

 

We are evaluating, or at least I am, on a new EV, I would want to wait for a closer price parity, rather than buy an EV version pay double, which is where we are at now

 

 

I'm not sure how well those points relate to the Note, it isn't the same kind of hybrid as the Prius (or other Toyota hybrids).  My understanding is that it DOES have the performance of an EV and that it is mechanically simpler than most hybrids.  There is no drive from the petrol motor to the wheels, this means no complex transmission system.  I think it could be a car worth looking into if there isn't an EV that suits your needs at a reasonable price.

 

The new EVs are really good, I'd love to own a 64kWh Kona or a Tesla Model 3 Performance.  Unfortunatly there just isn't a financial case to be made for these cars.  With my Leaf I'll save more in running costs than the price premium I paid over a similar size/age/mileage petrol car, but that was a second hand Japanese import - buying a new car is a whole 'nother thing.


tdgeek
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  #2308218 30-Aug-2019 08:09
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Dingbatt:

 

 

 

I have a non-plugin hybrid. It is my main car though. My Camry uses less fuel in every day running than our Swift. The best way to think about these cars though, is as efficient petrol vehicles not EVs. If all you are using it for is short trips to golf and can plug it in each night, then isn’t a Leaf, even one with slightly compromised range, a better bet?

 

 

 

Edit: As you have pointed out previously the payback on the extra cost of batteries in EVs is just not there in fuel savings. The same goes for hybrids unless you are doing a reasonable number of kms. Your use case probably doesn’t justify even a hybrid let alone an EV but there is something to be said for the intangibles. I didn’t particularly buy my car for ‘green’ reasons, but more for the smooth way it drives and the tech within. So there may be some of that in it for you. Would gliding along in an electric car, even just to golf, “bring you joy” (to borrow a phrase)?

 

 

That pretty much nails it. Get a cheap 2010 Note with low kms for 6-7k, done. At say 19k for a 2017 E-Power Note that's overkill, but quite a nice wee car. 2017 Leaf is 40k. An older Leaf at say 16k is an option, range no issue, but its older. What bothers me with used Leafs, is I see some with really low km, but bad SOH, and ones with higher kms, say 60km, but with much better SOH. I assume that comes down to the amount of fast charging?

 

Reminds me when I was a teen, myself and two mates went out to buy a dinghy for fishing, came back with an 18' powerboat


tdgeek
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  #2308220 30-Aug-2019 08:13
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MarkH67:

 

tdgeek:

 

The latter points are a worry!

 

We are evaluating, or at least I am, on a new EV, I would want to wait for a closer price parity, rather than buy an EV version pay double, which is where we are at now

 

 

I'm not sure how well those points relate to the Note, it isn't the same kind of hybrid as the Prius (or other Toyota hybrids).  My understanding is that it DOES have the performance of an EV and that it is mechanically simpler than most hybrids.  There is no drive from the petrol motor to the wheels, this means no complex transmission system.  I think it could be a car worth looking into if there isn't an EV that suits your needs at a reasonable price.

 

The new EVs are really good, I'd love to own a 64kWh Kona or a Tesla Model 3 Performance.  Unfortunatly there just isn't a financial case to be made for these cars.  With my Leaf I'll save more in running costs than the price premium I paid over a similar size/age/mileage petrol car, but that was a second hand Japanese import - buying a new car is a whole 'nother thing.

 

 

Exactly right.

 

As for my Golf "CarT", I'll take a 1.5l Note, ePower Note and a 18k Leaf for a test drive.


tdgeek
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  #2308221 30-Aug-2019 08:13
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Thanks all for the points raised


kingdragonfly
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  #2308333 30-Aug-2019 11:15
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I'm not sure how well those points relate to the Note, it isn't the same kind of hybrid as the Prius (or other Toyota hybrids).  My understanding is that it DOES have the performance of an EV and that it is mechanically simpler than most hybrids.  There is no drive from the petrol motor to the wheels, this means no complex transmission system.  I think it could be a car worth looking into if there isn't an EV that suits your needs at a reasonable price.


You are correct about the Nissan Note.

Nissan NOTE e-POWER System Explained

The e-POWER system features full electric-motor drive, meaning that the wheels are completely driven by the electric motor. The power from a high-output battery is delivered to the e-POWER’s compact powertrain comprised of a gasoline engine, power generator, inverter, and a motor. In conventional hybrid systems, a low-output electric motor is mated to a gasoline engine to drive the wheels when the battery is low (or when traveling at high speeds). However, in the e-POWER system, the gasoline engine is not connected to the wheels; it simply charges the battery. And unlike a full EV, the power source originates from the engine and not just the battery.

This system structure generally requires a bigger motor and battery because the motor is the only direct source to drive wheels. This has made it hard for the automotive industry to mount the system in compact cars. However, Nissan has cracked the code and learned how to minimize and reduce weight, develop more responsive motor control methods and optimize energy management. As a result, e-POWER uses a smaller battery than the LEAF, but delivers the same driving experience as a full EV.



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