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tdgeek
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  #2339742 17-Oct-2019 13:09
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wellygary:

 

 

 

The current Corolla is rated 6 l/100km while the hybrid version is 4.2 l/100km and there is a $3500 price difference

 

if you travel 15,000km a year  the 1.8l/100km difference means you use 270 fewer litres of fuel... 270 litres @ $2 is $540 a year, so it would take ~7 years to pay back the difference

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 years seems ok as a payback period. After that its a 100% saving. I raised that here a while back, the cost of the EV premium , example $80,000 Kona, less subsidy makes is $72000 vs $40000 for the ICE. $32000 is a LOT of petrol, more after allowing for charging costs 


kingdragonfly
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  #2339757 17-Oct-2019 13:34
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Regarding the 2020 Yarris, the petrol engine is using the "Atkinson cycle."

The Atkinson cycle engine has good fuel efficiency, with a lower power-per-displacement as compared to a traditional four-stroke engine.

I don't if the Yarris engine's better or worse than the previous Prius engine.

The 2020 Yarris has a theoretical pure EV range of up to four miles

Toyota estimates in normal urban driving, the engine will be off for 80% of the time, charging itself through regeneration.

What Is the Atkinson Combustion Cycle, and What Are Its Benefits?

 
 
 
 


al8565
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  #2339766 17-Oct-2019 13:55
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tdgeek:

 

wellygary:

 

 

 

The current Corolla is rated 6 l/100km while the hybrid version is 4.2 l/100km and there is a $3500 price difference

 

if you travel 15,000km a year  the 1.8l/100km difference means you use 270 fewer litres of fuel... 270 litres @ $2 is $540 a year, so it would take ~7 years to pay back the difference

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 years seems ok as a payback period. After that its a 100% saving. I raised that here a while back, the cost of the EV premium , example $80,000 Kona, less subsidy makes is $72000 vs $40000 for the ICE. $32000 is a LOT of petrol, more after allowing for charging costs 

 

 

 

 

As the battery degrades can we expect any savings to drop??  I always figured an 8 year old hybrid would barely be using it battery, since it can probably hold little charge. Anyone know?


tdgeek
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  #2339774 17-Oct-2019 14:10
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al8565:

 

tdgeek:

 

wellygary:

 

 

 

The current Corolla is rated 6 l/100km while the hybrid version is 4.2 l/100km and there is a $3500 price difference

 

if you travel 15,000km a year  the 1.8l/100km difference means you use 270 fewer litres of fuel... 270 litres @ $2 is $540 a year, so it would take ~7 years to pay back the difference

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 years seems ok as a payback period. After that its a 100% saving. I raised that here a while back, the cost of the EV premium , example $80,000 Kona, less subsidy makes is $72000 vs $40000 for the ICE. $32000 is a LOT of petrol, more after allowing for charging costs 

 

 

 

 

As the battery degrades can we expect any savings to drop??  I always figured an 8 year old hybrid would barely be using it battery, since it can probably hold little charge. Anyone know?

 

 

IIRC they might drop 10%. Savings would be the same as if the battery dropped 10% the other 90% is enough, the petrol charging would come on a  little sooner and for a little shorter = the same. Just as if you reduced the size of your petrol tank, you still get the same mpg


kingdragonfly
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  #2339860 17-Oct-2019 15:54
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The Prius and Yarris do not use a typical CVT; Toyota calls it the "Power Split Device". The electric motors and gas engine are connected to a planetary gear set which is always engaged, and there is no shifting.

It always concerns me if the "Power Split Device" breaks, replacing it would cost more than the car's worth.

I like the Nissan e-power drivetrain better. No "Power Split"; an electric engine drives the wheels, and an petrol engine charges the battery. Just simpler.


kingdragonfly
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  #2339912 17-Oct-2019 19:52
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The Best Car for Someone in a Wheelchair?! - Our new Tesla Model X!


kingdragonfly
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  #2339922 17-Oct-2019 20:44
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IMOH, I'm not sure a Tesla with autopilot stopping in its own lane on a highway is a great idea. Flashers are not enough. Pulling over as far as possible would be better.

People constantly collide with the huge traffic management trucks. That's why they have a large flashing sign and giant crash cushion.

A US woman was convicted of involuntary manslaughter when she stopped on a highway to allow baby ducks to pass, triggering a fatal accident.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/15/what-is-tesla-autopilot-answers-for-faq/

What Is Tesla Autopilot? Answers For FAQ

What happens if you don’t keep your hands on the wheel?

In Tesla Autopilot 2.0, after about 45 seconds, the car will put up a note on the screen that it has not been able to detect you and you need to move the wheel. After about 15 more seconds, it will start to flash a warning on the screen. After 15 more seconds, the system will beep loudly, including turning down the radio if it is on. Finally, after about 1:30 seconds total, the car will sound the alarm, flash a large “take over” sign on the screen, and slow the car down while turning on its hazard lights in its lane as it carefully comes to a complete stop.

Additionally, once the driver has taken back over, Autopilot will be disabled for the rest of that trip.

Note that, as of when I am writing this article, a driver can continue driving using Autopilot at this point by depressing the accelerator. However, if the accelerator is depressed while driving on Autopilot, the vehicle will not brake or maintain distance automatically.

How are people falling asleep in Tesla cars with Autopilot on?

In short, with the above active driver monitoring system in place, it is extremely improbable that anyone is falling asleep with Autopilot on for any extended period of time. Instead, these reports are almost definitely created by people either attempting to play pranks on surrounding drivers, or looking for attention. Hopefully, this is obviously an extremely stupid idea and not many people will do it.

As an aside, if a driver had something happen that made them unable to control their vehicle, I would much rather have them have that happen with Autopilot on so the car would come to a stop and signal others that there was a problem, instead of departing its lane and endangering others around it at a high rate of speed.

 
 
 
 


Dingbatt
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  #2339994 18-Oct-2019 08:39
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kingdragonfly: The Prius and Yarris do not use a typical CVT; Toyota calls it the "Power Split Device". The electric motors and gas engine are connected to a planetary gear set which is always engaged, and there is no shifting.

It always concerns me if the "Power Split Device" breaks, replacing it would cost more than the car's worth.

I like the Nissan e-power drivetrain better. No "Power Split"; an electric engine drives the wheels, and an petrol engine charges the battery. Just simpler.


snip (removed YouTube link)

 

I wrote a long reply to this, but after watching the ‘captcha’ emblem go round and round for ten minutes I gave up (possibly due to the YouTube link). So here it is in bullet form.

 

I’m a Camry Hybrid owner, it’s not an EV. I wish it was available as a plug-in.

 

The Hybrid Synergy Drive system in Toyotas and Lexus’ (and Fords next year) is simpler than modern automatics.

 

Series hybrids are best in my view, but I believe are used less because they require larger (heavier) electric motors.

 

Any transmission replacement will probably be worth more than the vehicle.

 

Most plug-in hybrids available here have the horrible (imo) dual clutch transmission.





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kingdragonfly
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  #2340120 18-Oct-2019 11:49
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I found this article from the Union of Concerned Scientists, which helped me.

Hybrids that use a series drivetrain only receive mechanical power from the electric motor, which is run by either a battery or a gasoline-powered generator.

In hybrids with parallel drivetrains, the electric motor and internal combustion engine can provide mechanical power simultaneously.

Series/parallel drivetrains enable the engine and electric motor to provide power independently or in conjunction with one another.

...Series/parallel drivetrains merge the advantages and complications of the parallel and series drivetrains.

By combining the two designs, the engine can both drive the wheels directly (as in the parallel drivetrain), and be effectively disconnected, with only the electric motor providing power (as in the series drivetrain).

The Toyota Prius helped make series/parallel drivetrains a popular design....

tripper1000
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  #2340123 18-Oct-2019 11:56
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I would expect the power split system to be more reliable than almost all other automotive transmission systems. It is one of the new generation of CVT that does away with clutches, gear-selectors and other components that rely on friction or engage/disengage and the associated wear/maintenance. It mechanically simplifies transmissions and is (mechanically) far simpler that other CVT's.

 

As I understand it, (and simplified to explain it from only a mechanical point of view) it basically replaces the transmission with an extra differential and a motor generator. The ICE and electric motor feed into each side what would normally be the outputs of the diff. The electric motor/generator then spins either forward or backwards relative to the ICE. When it spins forward the "diff" combines the output to achieve a RPM overdrive, and when the electric motor spins backwards it achieves a net RPM reduction. By modulating the electric motor/generator speed and direction you achieve any ratio you need with no gear shifting, no clutches & no belts or cones.

 

It further blurs the line between hybrids and EV's.


ilovemusic
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  #2340152 18-Oct-2019 14:17
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all these pure EVs bore me to tears,

 

for me there's only one i could live with, a bmw i8 hybrid

 

great performance, best in class handling, even sounds good when the 3 cyl turbo kicks in

 

:D


Linuxluver

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  #2340164 18-Oct-2019 14:42
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ilovemusic:

all these pure EVs bore me to tears,


for me there's only one i could live with, a bmw i8 hybrid


great performance, best in class handling, even sounds good when the 3 cyl turbo kicks in


:D



Yeah. Never mind effectively addressing climate change if it means a few people are determined to be bored.

That's it then.




_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


Guilliman
80 posts

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  #2340165 18-Oct-2019 14:47
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Dingbatt:

kingdragonfly: The Prius and Yarris do not use a typical CVT; Toyota calls it the "Power Split Device". The electric motors and gas engine are connected to a planetary gear set which is always engaged, and there is no shifting.

It always concerns me if the "Power Split Device" breaks, replacing it would cost more than the car's worth.

I like the Nissan e-power drivetrain better. No "Power Split"; an electric engine drives the wheels, and an petrol engine charges the battery. Just simpler.


snip (removed YouTube link)

 

I wrote a long reply to this, but after watching the ‘captcha’ emblem go round and round for ten minutes I gave up (possibly due to the YouTube link). So here it is in bullet form.

 

I’m a Camry Hybrid owner, it’s not an EV. I wish it was available as a plug-in.

 

The Hybrid Synergy Drive system in Toyotas and Lexus’ (and Fords next year) is simpler than modern automatics.

 

Series hybrids are best in my view, but I believe are used less because they require larger (heavier) electric motors.

 

Any transmission replacement will probably be worth more than the vehicle.

 

Most plug-in hybrids available here have the horrible (imo) dual clutch transmission.

 

 

An evil green thing I used to drive, otherwise known as a 2003 Mini Cooper, ended up costing me thousands for TWO transmission servicings [think one was around $4500]. Any rough figures for said hybrid transmissions?

kingdragonfly
5091 posts

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  #2340305 18-Oct-2019 16:02
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From what I can find on the web, generation 1 (to 2003) the split unit failures were not too rare, but when it failed the labor costs was more than the car was worth.

From 2004 forward, as long as the fluids get replaced, it's pretty rare.

As mentioned there are no sliding dog-rings, synchros or a torque converter. However there is a slipper clutch and automatic transmission fluid pump. Overall it seem to be more reliable than a standard automatic transmission.

I've read the owner needs to change the transaxle oil more frequently than a petrol-only car, because the oil gets twice as hot than a conventional transmission.

Much more common is replacing the batteries which seem to be in the NZ $3,500 range. The current warranty is 160,000K or 8 years. Private cars commonly have 10 year life spans, Taxis have 5 year lifespan. I read a battery pack from a wrecked Prius can be just a few hundred, but not a DIY job I'd guess those prices are coming down.

I've read that it's a good idea to avoid any Prius more than 300,000 km.

Again I'm just going by what I've read.

Dingbatt
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  #2340310 18-Oct-2019 16:14
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Linuxluver:
ilovemusic:

 

all these pure EVs bore me to tears,

 

 

 

for me there's only one i could live with, a bmw i8 hybrid

 

 

 

great performance, best in class handling, even sounds good when the 3 cyl turbo kicks in

 

 

 

:D

 



Yeah. Never mind effectively addressing climate change if it means a few people are determined to be bored.

That's it then.

 

 

 

Yes, there are some pretty awesome looking EV hypercars. Not that any of them are even remotely affordable. I guess you missed the smiley face at the end of ilovemusic’s post, but don’t let that stop a humourless comment just because everyone isn’t as passionate as you on some topics.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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