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clive100
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  #2382980 30-Dec-2019 17:26
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Now if you think about it as battery range (capacity) increases so will charging time with the existing fast charger network. So charging stops will necessarily become longer. 

 

When charging at home the time required will increase so overnight charging may/will not be possible when a larger capacity battery is nearly depleted. 

 

Existing home charger installations will need to be beefed up to allow acceptable recharge times to maintain full usability of the extended range available.

 

3 Phase 32A home chargers will be the minimum recommendations & the associated costs of charger & installation.   


PolicyGuy
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  #2382994 30-Dec-2019 18:21
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clive100:
Now if you think about it as battery range (capacity) increases so will charging time with the existing fast charger network. So charging stops will necessarily become longer. 
When charging at home the time required will increase so overnight charging may/will not be possible when a larger capacity battery is nearly depleted.

 

A 15A "blue caravan" plug will give about 30kWh battery boost on a nine-hour overnight charge. At 6km/kWh that's enough for close to a 90km commute each way, i.e. much, much more than most people will do. If your daily commute is 200km or more, then you might need a higher-capacity power supply, although your attainable range will go up if you charge the EV all night (7pm to 6am) rather than just 'off peak'.

 

You'd hope that BEV vehicle efficiency will get better over time, and that 7km/kWh or even better will be the median performance by say 2025

 

 

 

clive100:
Existing home charger installations will need to be beefed up to allow acceptable recharge times to maintain full usability of the extended range available.
3 Phase 32A home chargers will be the minimum recommendations & the associated costs of charger & installation.

 

If beefed up home chargers are required, then single phase 30A and 40A plugs and sockets have been available for decades - they were call 'range or 'stove' plugs - although those particular ones are not in much favour these days, permanent wiring is much preferred.
A modern 32A single phase socket and plug set such as the PDL56CV332LE and PDL56P332 would do the job nicely, and would allow a vehicle to gain 65kWh during an off-peak charge, and close to 100kWh if put on all-night charge.

 

The vast majority of NZ homes built since the 1970's have only single-phase, or occasionally two-phase (one for the stove, one for everything else) mains power supplies. The cost of upgrading residential power supplies to three phase would be completely unsustainable, it would involve a lot of digging up roads, driveways and gardens, and major switchboard modification/replacement. That is one thing that won't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: spelling


 
 
 
 


Linuxluver

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  #2383149 30-Dec-2019 22:12
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dafman:

Range remains the single issue that would still see me still choose an ICE over EV.


We've just returned from a five day trip ranging the north island, yesterday driving from Auckland to Wellington with a lunch stop at Taupo (shout out for Replete Cafe, great food & coffee).


There is no way I would have wanted to complete our trip with a limited range vehicle. EV enthusiasts will point out that there is a charging station at Taupo within an easy walk to Replete Cafe,  but this is a convenience of chance and not always the case. I don't want to be forced to make periodic stops at fixed locations when on holiday.


And as EV ownership ramps up, what about demand versus supply for the limited number of charging stations. Imaging pulling into the Taupo charging station yesterday only to find several EVs lined up waiting in advance of you.



I drove Opotiki to Wellington - and back - on Friday in my EV. I charged once each way at a Supercharger for 20 minutes and filled up in Wellington.

Here's my drive. https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/d3d0f63c11f4c5d7512fd1489c3bdd63.jpg




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Linuxluver

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  #2383150 30-Dec-2019 22:12
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dafman:

Range remains the single issue that would still see me still choose an ICE over EV.


We've just returned from a five day trip ranging the north island, yesterday driving from Auckland to Wellington with a lunch stop at Taupo (shout out for Replete Cafe, great food & coffee).


There is no way I would have wanted to complete our trip with a limited range vehicle. EV enthusiasts will point out that there is a charging station at Taupo within an easy walk to Replete Cafe,  but this is a convenience of chance and not always the case. I don't want to be forced to make periodic stops at fixed locations when on holiday.


And as EV ownership ramps up, what about demand versus supply for the limited number of charging stations. Imaging pulling into the Taupo charging station yesterday only to find several EVs lined up waiting in advance of you.



I drove Opotiki to Wellington - and back - on Friday in my EV. I charged once each way at a Supercharger for 20 minutes and filled up in Wellington.

Here's my drive. Well....the car drove a fair bit of it, under my supervision.

EVs are not limited range anymore. The price is the only obstacle. That will change rapidly.




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If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


Technofreak
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  #2383155 30-Dec-2019 22:36
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I wonder how long it will be before motels start offering charging facilties for the their clients.




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Obraik
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  #2383169 31-Dec-2019 00:53
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Technofreak: I wonder how long it will be before motels start offering charging facilties for the their clients.

This is already a thing. The motel I stayed at in Wellington over Christmas had a Tesla destination charger. I'd come back from.a day of activities, plug in and get up in the morning to a charged car. No extra cost or anything 🙂

SaltyNZ
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  #2383201 31-Dec-2019 09:41
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clive100:

 

Now if you think about it as battery range (capacity) increases so will charging time with the existing fast charger network. So charging stops will necessarily become longer.   

 



 

Only if you insist on charging to 100% each time. Why would you do that, when your long range EV only needs another, say 20% charge for you to arrive with a comfortable range remaining?





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clive100
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  #2383214 31-Dec-2019 10:08
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SaltyNZ:

 

clive100:

 

Now if you think about it as battery range (capacity) increases so will charging time with the existing fast charger network. So charging stops will necessarily become longer.   

 



 

Only if you insist on charging to 100% each time. Why would you do that, when your long range EV only needs another, say 20% charge for you to arrive with a comfortable range remaining?

 

 

 

 

Yes I see your point but I was commenting on the total time required to fully replenish the battery if required. At a fast charger enroute to a final destination then yes only stop for as long as required but at the end destination you still need to fully (100%) recharge & at a residential situation an overnight charge may not cut the mustard on a larger capacity battery.

 

 


Obraik
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  #2383216 31-Dec-2019 10:23
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clive100:

Yes I see your point but I was commenting on the total time required to fully replenish the battery if required. At a fast charger enroute to a final destination then yes only stop for as long as required but at the end destination you still need to fully (100%) recharge & at a residential situation an overnight charge may not cut the mustard on a larger capacity battery.


 


The bigger the battery the faster they can charge. New chargers with faster rates are also being introduced, such as the 350kw chargers being installed at the Bombay hills in the next few months. For the long range Model 3 this means it can charge to 80% in nearly 20mins at 250kw (the cars current max) vs around 45mins on the current max of 120kw at Superchargers.

clive100
240 posts

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  #2383218 31-Dec-2019 10:31
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But I am talking residential as in at home in your carport or garage. Am I wrong to believe that most people choose to charge at home as the most convenient & economical option ? 

 

 


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2383229 31-Dec-2019 10:51
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clive100:

But I am talking residential as in at home in your carport or garage. Am I wrong to believe that most people choose to charge at home as the most convenient & economical option ? 


 


Sure, but just because you have a bigger battery doesn't mean you're going to need more charge for the daily commute. As it is I can recharge my daily commute usage in around a couple hours with my 7kw home charger. It's pretty rare that you'll arrive home completely empty and even rarer that you'll need to quickly turn around and go out again. However it would take around 11 hours to go from 10% to 100% at my home with my current Model 3.

However, the notion that you can't go again until you're fully charged again isn't the correct way to do things. If there was a scenario where I was going somewhere and would arrive at a home charger nearly empty and then I had to go on again then I'd simply stay on the home charger long enough to get enough to get to the nearest fast charger. In NZ that's only going to be an hour or so.

kingdragonfly
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  #2383241 31-Dec-2019 11:22
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The current value of Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Market is expected to grow by over 5 times in 5 years.

MarketWatch: Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Market is Anticipated to Grow US$ 30 Billion by 2024

The Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Market is segmented on the lines of its vehicle type, charging station, installation type and regional. Based on vehicle type it covers Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV). Based on charging station it covers AC Charging Station and DC Charging Station. Based on installation type it covers Residential and Commercial. The Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Market on geographic segmentation covers various regions such as North America, Europe, Asia Pacific, Latin America, Middle East and Africa. Each geographic market is further segmented to provide market revenue for select countries such as the U.S., Canada, U.K. Germany, China, Japan, India, Brazil, and GCC countries.

The report covers detailed competitive outlook including the market share and company profiles of the key participants operating in the global market. Key players profiled in the report ABB, Aerovironment, Chargepoint, Engie, Tesla, Schneider Electric, Siemens, Efacec, EVGO and Leviton. Company profile includes assign such as company summary, financial summary, business strategy and planning, SWOT analysis and current developments.

The Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Market is expected to exceed more than US$ 30 Billion at a compound annual growth rates of 40% in 5 years.

To buy this report is $3,000, so I don't expect individuals to buy it.

SaltyNZ
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  #2383242 31-Dec-2019 11:27
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clive100:

 

But I am talking residential as in at home in your carport or garage. Am I wrong to believe that most people choose to charge at home as the most convenient & economical option ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even without installing anything over and above the normal 10A socket which you already have in your garage, you get maybe 18kWh overnight, which is more than enough to get you to a fast charger if you aren't full already. Spend a few hundred dollars on an electrician to install a 20A circuit with a caravan plug and that's now more like 33kWh.

 

The bigger issue is for people who do not have any off-street parking. Those people will be more reliant on public chargers. Generally speaking though, those areas are also well served by public transport so people living there are less reliant on cars anyway. Not always, obviously, but mostly no off-street parking means inner city.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


SaltyNZ
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  #2383244 31-Dec-2019 11:30
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Obraik:
Technofreak: I wonder how long it will be before motels start offering charging facilties for the their clients.

This is already a thing. The motel I stayed at in Wellington over Christmas had a Tesla destination charger. I'd come back from.a day of activities, plug in and get up in the morning to a charged car. No extra cost or anything 🙂

 

 

 

And even if not, we've stayed at multiple places that were quite happy for us to run an extension cable out the window. If you're going to a holiday park to camp, get a powered spot. That's what we just did for our overnight stops on the way to/from Taranaki.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2383262 31-Dec-2019 12:30
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Obraik: As it is I can recharge my daily commute usage in around a couple hours with my 7kw home charger. It's pretty rare that you'll arrive home completely empty and even rarer that you'll need to quickly turn around and go out again. However it would take around 11 hours to go from 10% to 100% at my home with my current Model 3.

 

I suspect that over 90% of NZers would be fine on a 7kW home charger.

 

As batteries get bigger there is less & less need to hit 100%, charging to 70 or 80 percent will be easily enough for most people's commute - and they would still get home with comfortably enough power left to be able to go out for the evening.

 

With long trips the need to charger from near zero to a full 100% will almost never happen when driving a longer range car.  I could get from home to Cape Reinga or from home to Wellington in a Model 3 performance, with only a single stop to top up to 80%.  Basically I'd run out of North Island before the range was a problem.  Even a 100kW charger would be enough so long trips were no biggie.

 

My 24kWh Leaf would be rubbish on a long trip, but it does get me to work & back (70km total for the round trip) at a low cost and with great reliability.


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