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258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2387448 8-Jan-2020 14:50
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SaltyNZ:

 

Interestingly, according to those stats, PHEV annual mileage is only around 8% higher than BEV annual mileage. This suggests that the longer range of a PHEV (being the main reason to choose one over a BEV) is not really being taken advantage of in a big way.

 

 

 

 

I ran an Outlander PHEV for a couple years, you are not generally keen to use it on petrol tbh, its not bad but you get used to not filling it with expensive smelly liquids. its like burning cash 


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  #2387450 8-Jan-2020 14:57
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RobDickinson:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

Interestingly, according to those stats, PHEV annual mileage is only around 8% higher than BEV annual mileage. This suggests that the longer range of a PHEV (being the main reason to choose one over a BEV) is not really being taken advantage of in a big way.

 

 

 

 

I ran an Outlander PHEV for a couple years, you are not generally keen to use it on petrol tbh, its not bad but you get used to not filling it with expensive smelly liquids. its like burning cash 

 

 

 

 

Ugh, I know what you mean. Our other car is a Pajero that's old enough to vote. It gets driven about once a fortnight if that, and every time I put petrol in it I wince.





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  #2390723 12-Jan-2020 21:54
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SaltyNZ:

 

Ugh, I know what you mean. Our other car is a Pajero that's old enough to vote. It gets driven about once a fortnight if that, and every time I put petrol in it I wince.

 

 

Same. My wife drives a 998cc VW UP! while we wait for her MG ZS EV to arrive. It now takes about $80 to fill the tank. It's very efficient, with range in the neighbourhood of 800km / tank......but I hate putting anything in it.





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  #2390776 13-Jan-2020 08:15
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SaltyNZ:

Interestingly, according to those stats, PHEV annual mileage is only around 8% higher than BEV annual mileage. This suggests that the longer range of a PHEV (being the main reason to choose one over a BEV) is not really being taken advantage of in a big way.



Yep people seem to be buying for the exceptions rather than the norm (unless you need to tow).

We’ve done 18k in our 30kwh Leaf since May and I’ve “only” used fast chargers 34 times (circa $200). Over half those fast chargers were unnecessary for reasons such as early range anxiety, showing people how to use them, the free charger on Bond St, and needing a top up the night before our monthly trip from Wellington to Palmy (so that we could slow charge to 100 overnight - we used to charge in Ōtaki each way).

For long trips, the money saved in petrol will easily cover an ICE rental, but with a 19 month old, we don’t tend to travel far.

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  #2390786 13-Jan-2020 08:34
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Smix:
SaltyNZ:

 

Interestingly, according to those stats, PHEV annual mileage is only around 8% higher than BEV annual mileage. This suggests that the longer range of a PHEV (being the main reason to choose one over a BEV) is not really being taken advantage of in a big way.

 



Yep people seem to be buying for the exceptions rather than the norm (unless you need to tow).

We’ve done 18k in our 30kwh Leaf since May and I’ve “only” used fast chargers 34 times (circa $200). Over half those fast chargers were unnecessary for reasons such as early range anxiety, showing people how to use them, the free charger on Bond St, and needing a top up the night before our monthly trip from Wellington to Palmy (so that we could slow charge to 100 overnight - we used to charge in Ōtaki each way).

For long trips, the money saved in petrol will easily cover an ICE rental, but with a 19 month old, we don’t tend to travel far.

 

 

 

Even then I think it's more about range anxiety than reality. I've driven the Leaf from Warkworth to Eltham and back twice now, and to/from the Whangarei and Tauranga regions multiple times. For really long trips, you're ultimately limited by battery heating so even if there was a fast charger half way between Te Kuiti and New Plymouth it'd still probably be a 2 day trip in the 24/30kWh Leaf ... but the point is, you can do it. Of course the only way to learn that is to actually do it. Just having someone tell you it's possible won't convince you.

 

Having said that I will be looking to trade the Leaf in on a new car next year. I've already put 94,000km on it so far and by next year at its current rate of battery degradation it will start to become too short range to get me to work and back (110km round trip with a big hill climb at the end) without a charge during the day. Hopefully next year the range of options within my price range will be a big bigger. It would be nice to be able to get to Eltham in one day.





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Master Geek


  #2390792 13-Jan-2020 09:09
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Realistically if you only have one car you want one that can do everything you might want to do in a car and a 24kwh leaf just doesn't cut it for most people. Plug in hybrids however have most of the advantages and none of the limitations so that's why they sell. Sure you may only do long distance driving a few times a year, but having to plan ahead and hire a car is not what you want to be doing.

 

I have a 2013 leaf and I love it. Almost all of my driving is in the leaf, 20km a day to work and back, 90km round trip to some friends once a fortnight, and just general round town and short trip driving. However after about the first two months of owning it as an only car the limitations it imposed on my travel choices started to hit home and I ended up buying a cheap second car for long trips. The 40kwh leaf I could live with but I can't afford it. The 30kwh would really stretch my budget and might be good enough but it's still marginal.

 

I live in Hamilton and here's why I can't recommend a leaf except as a second car or for people who almost never do long trips.

 

   Want to do a day trip to Kawhia, can't unless you charge at a camping ground or someone's house.

 

      (ok charge at pirongia, limp along at 60-70km/h and you might make it there and back - maybe.)

 

  Want to visit Marakopa falls - can't

 

  Tow a trailer - well you could but Nissan don't recommend it

 

  Visit my dad in Whanganui - doable but - 1.5- 2 extra hours, 4-6 stops, and hope the chargers are free when you get there or it's even worse, and you need to detour down state highway 1 to avoid long stretches with no chargers adding quite a few km to the trip. If they put a charger between Taumaranui and national park somewhere this would really help.

 

 

 

Initially I planned to hire a car from time to time, realised I don't want the hassle.

 

Probably I should have bought an outlander which would have done everything, but I liked the leaf better. Now I've essentially bought the same thing spread across 2 vehicles for close to the same price.

 

 

 

 

 

All that said if a leaf fits your needs they are great little cars and surprisingly fun to drive, I prefer it to the corolla whenever I have the option.


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  #2390810 13-Jan-2020 09:56
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Dugimodo:

 

The 30kwh would really stretch my budget and might be good enough but it's still marginal.

 

 

 

 

As a 30kWh owner I probably would not buy one a second time. It appears the 30kWh batteries don't hold up as well as the 24kWh batteries do, so my 30kWh car is now a more expensive slightly-less-than-24kWh car, about a year "early" and still going down faster than the 24s seem to be.





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Ultimate Geek


  #2390811 13-Jan-2020 09:59
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I dont understand how Nissan have not ,moved on from the 2011 leaf tech. 

 

Well I do, they dont want too, the whole Japanese auto world is in denial of the upcoming changes.


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Master Geek


  #2390824 13-Jan-2020 10:20
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SaltyNZ:

 

As a 30kWh owner I probably would not buy one a second time. It appears the 30kWh batteries don't hold up as well as the 24kWh batteries do, so my 30kWh car is now a more expensive slightly-less-than-24kWh car, about a year "early" and still going down faster than the 24s seem to be.

 

 

 

 

Has your leaf had the firmware update? the 30kwh had a battery degradation issue which Nissan said is a firmware issue that has been fixed in the latest version. The reported SOH was being calculated wrong.

 

 

 

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/30kwh-nissan-leaf-battery-issue-resolved-by-software-fix

 

 

 

My 2013 leaf is down to about 80% SOH and realistically can do about 90km on the open road if you want to keep at least 10% charge in reserve.




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  #2390860 13-Jan-2020 10:44
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SaltyNZ:

As a 30kWh owner I probably would not buy one a second time. It appears the 30kWh batteries don't hold up as well as the 24kWh batteries do, so my 30kWh car is now a more expensive slightly-less-than-24kWh car, about a year "early" and still going down faster than the 24s seem to be.



I'll agree here. The 30kWh LEAF charges a bit faster and can go a bit further. I drove mine happily and we'll for about 2 years. But then the range started to fall. But a firmware update restored a lot of that. But that was temporary as the range began to fall again. Another firmware update (custom) changed the charging profile and that helped reduce the stress on the battery at fast chargers due to heating. But the range was still going down. It's now about 84% SoH and 12 bars after 4 years and 115,000km. But the "extra" range is almost gone. It now slightly better than a brand new 24kWh LEAF.

The temptation with the 30 is to go further and cycle the battery harder to do longer trips and it works great for 2-3 years. But eventually you come up against Nissan's deliberate crippling of their batteries. Almost every other EV has actively cooled batteries. (VW e-Golf excepted).

I bought a Tesla Model 3 with the larger battery. What an amazing car. Wow. Just drive and drive and drive. Last week I drive from Opotiki to Whangarei via Dargaville and Opononi (scenic route) and charged once in Aucklabd at the Tesla Superchargers. Took half an hour at 120kw. Was free as I have my original 1500 free kms plus another 1500km from a referral.

The LEAF can do it all, but there's a price to it.




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258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2390862 13-Jan-2020 10:49
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Certainly part of teslas secret sauce on batteries is no secret - larger batteries generally have shallower cycles. 


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  #2390865 13-Jan-2020 11:06
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Dugimodo:

 

Has your leaf had the firmware update? the 30kwh had a battery degradation issue which Nissan said is a firmware issue that has been fixed in the latest version. The reported SOH was being calculated wrong.

 

 

 

 

Yes, had that done April or May last year. Jumped up from apparent mid-70s to 87% and has since fallen to just under 80% (slight bump back up to 81% after the last Eltham trip as a brief period of multiple FCs often temporarily does).





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  #2390867 13-Jan-2020 11:08
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Linuxluver:

 

I bought a Tesla Model 3 with the larger battery.

 

 

 

 

Sadly, I expect Tesla to remain out of my price range for some time. :-(





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28 posts

Geek


  #2390871 13-Jan-2020 11:16
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I have to say, saying "The leaf... has a price to it" when you've spend an additional $70,000 on a long range tesla seems a bit absurd. (I recognise the "price" is time and convenience, but come on!)


258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2390916 13-Jan-2020 11:18
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A new leaf is $60k, a new tesla is $77k, not a huge gap given the vast gulf in ability and tech.


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