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Obraik
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  #2424005 19-Feb-2020 13:28
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tdgeek:

 

Your accusing me of context issues? LOL. I dont think you recall where this started

 

You started off yakking about $160,000 cars, re read if you forgot already. No, we dont need them to pave the way. Tesla has and fair enough. If you want to "compare" a $160,000 upmarket brand, with a Kona and now call Kona also expensive, thats fine, just another moving target or "adjustment" to your arguments. A Kona EV is a standard, base, mass market model that has a price premium, to cover R+D and battery cost, as has always been the case for new products. Thats just plain basic knowledge. Its not your $160,000 upmarket model by any stretch. 

 

Bizarre,and more time wasting

 

 

Nah, I suggest you go back and reread, and take note of the context. The $160,000 car was being compared to other $160,000 cars.  YOU then came along and put forward the ground breaking revelation that they don't compare to cheaper cars, a comparison that was never made. This whole Kona vs $160,000 car comparison is your own narrative, not mine.

 

I'll go back to my original statement "you can't get the cheaper EVs without the expensive ones paving the way". The EV market today would not be what it is without Tesla.


SaltyNZ
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  #2424010 19-Feb-2020 13:34
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Dugimodo:

 

A lot of people's concerns regarding EVs are overstated and easily answered by just using one for a while, the concern over price however is not.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, see, given the current purchase ratios of ICE to EV, I think a significantly higher than proposed feebate would level the playing field. At the rate of 64 SUVs to 1 EV (I can no longer find the article, but it was published last year based on Ministry figures) you could charge $1K to the ICE buyers and make the EV free ... (yes I know, I'm being slightly sarcastic)





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tdgeek
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  #2424015 19-Feb-2020 13:40
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Whatever. You throw the word expensive around quite liberally. Timewasting , dont bother


tdgeek
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  #2424018 19-Feb-2020 13:44
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SaltyNZ:

 

Dugimodo:

 

A lot of people's concerns regarding EVs are overstated and easily answered by just using one for a while, the concern over price however is not.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, see, given the current purchase ratios of ICE to EV, I think a significantly higher than proposed feebate would level the playing field. At the rate of 64 SUVs to 1 EV (I can no longer find the article, but it was published last year based on Ministry figures) you could charge $1K to the ICE buyers and make the EV free ... (yes I know, I'm being slightly sarcastic)

 

 

LOL, nice post. Slightly sarcastic yes, but in all seriousness, when an ICE has an EV equivalent (ignoring range as long as range is ok), I see nothing wrong with incrementing the Tax penalty and the subsidy. The only downside is people might be forever waiting for the next big deal, so you actually reduce sales increases


SaltyNZ
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  #2424030 19-Feb-2020 13:57
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tdgeek:

 

LOL, nice post. Slightly sarcastic yes, but in all seriousness, when an ICE has an EV equivalent (ignoring range as long as range is ok), I see nothing wrong with incrementing the Tax penalty and the subsidy. The only downside is people might be forever waiting for the next big deal, so you actually reduce sales increases

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you have to balance it so that the rebate isn't so high you run out of fees to cover it. But I am truly believe that there is a case to make the in many (but not all) unnecessarily more polluting vehicles pay more to push price parity between EVs and other vehicles in their class. The rebate on a Leaf, for example, should push its price to the same as, say, the Corolla, at the cost of making Ford Rangers another $5000 more expensive. If you insist on buying a Ranger to go to the supermarket, another $5K won't stop you. But it will get more people into Leafs than would otherwise have bought Corollas.





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Linuxluver

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  #2424179 19-Feb-2020 18:37
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@tdgeek @obraik

It would be great if new EVs were cheaper today. I think we can all agree on that.

It's also true there are used EVs ranging in price from $7000-ish (cheap) to over $100,000.

Beyond that, who said what isn't really adding much value to the topic. You're both EV fans. Can we focus on all the cool stuff happening?







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mattwnz
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  #2424184 19-Feb-2020 18:51
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Anyone seen the pics new mazda EV, think it is the MX30. Looks horrible and boxy and reminds me of Lada. I would have considered it if it looked like the new CX30. Why do some companies need to make EVs so ugly. I would have expected Mazda to use the same design language as their other models.  At last the teslas look more like normal cars (apart from that ute)


 
 
 
 


Obraik
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  #2424203 19-Feb-2020 19:37
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mattwnz:

 

Anyone seen the pics new mazda EV, think it is the MX30. Looks horrible and boxy and reminds me of Lada. I would have considered it if it looked like the new CX30. Why do some companies need to make EVs so ugly. I would have expected Mazda to use the same design language as their other models.  At last the teslas look more like normal cars (apart from that ute)

 

 

Not only may it be ugly, but Mazda decided it was a good idea to artificially limit its performance to be "more like a conventional car" and that they put a small battery in it to "be responsible"


tdgeek
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  #2424206 19-Feb-2020 19:52
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Linuxluver: @tdgeek @obraik

It would be great if new EVs were cheaper today. I think we can all agree on that.

It's also true there are used EVs ranging in price from $7000-ish (cheap) to over $100,000.

Beyond that, who said what isn't really adding much value to the topic. You're both EV fans. Can we focus on all the cool stuff happening?



 

You're right. 

 

My cool stuff are new models arriving. 


tdgeek
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  #2424207 19-Feb-2020 19:54
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mattwnz:

 

Anyone seen the pics new mazda EV, think it is the MX30. Looks horrible and boxy and reminds me of Lada. I would have considered it if it looked like the new CX30. Why do some companies need to make EVs so ugly. I would have expected Mazda to use the same design language as their other models.  At last the teslas look more like normal cars (apart from that ute)

 

 

Yep, I HATE the futuristic look of some EV's. Its JUST a car, it has a new engine, thats all. Nothing more. If you want mass buyers, make it like a car, not a Jetsons car


tdgeek
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  #2424208 19-Feb-2020 20:00
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Obraik:

 

mattwnz:

 

Anyone seen the pics new mazda EV, think it is the MX30. Looks horrible and boxy and reminds me of Lada. I would have considered it if it looked like the new CX30. Why do some companies need to make EVs so ugly. I would have expected Mazda to use the same design language as their other models.  At last the teslas look more like normal cars (apart from that ute)

 

 

Not only may it be ugly, but Mazda decided it was a good idea to artificially limit its performance to be "more like a conventional car" and that they put a small battery in it to "be responsible"

 

 

It looks like a normal car to me. Not ugly. But the battery at 35.5 isnt great. 200 km. Not great. Cant find a rough price but range isnt worth it. 


SaltyNZ
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  #2424238 19-Feb-2020 20:50
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Yeah I feel like Mazda is having to be dragged kicking and screaming into this EV generation, and are just building cars so they can say 'Fine, we'll build a stupid EV too. Are you happy now, Karen?'





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tdgeek
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  #2424245 19-Feb-2020 20:55
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SaltyNZ:

 

Yeah I feel like Mazda is having to be dragged kicking and screaming into this EV generation, and are just building cars so they can say 'Fine, we'll build a stupid EV too. Are you happy now, Karen?'

 

 

Pretty much. I find it quite good, not bad, without yet looking into every detail, but a 200km range? 48kW battery and its probably in the line up, but 220km?, hence your comment fits.


jonathan18
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  #2424324 20-Feb-2020 09:01
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The argument behind the smaller battery in the Mazda EV is, I understand, to keep down weight (the bigger the battery, the heavier the car, the more drain on the battery/the more power that's needed to cart the weight around...) and price (batteries making up a significant proportion of the cost of an EV).

 

I think there's a market for this, especially for those using their car most of the time in an urban setting. Also pertinent for two-car families, where one will often be a smaller car for use around town (so easily replaced by a low-range electric).

 

I'm guessing many owners of the G 1a and 1b Leafs find their limited range adequate - 200km on a charge would actually nearly double what our own Leaf is now capable of!

 

Pricing on this Mazda will be key, I imagine; if another decent EV is not too much more but offers significantly better range then it may indeed be a hard sell.

 

Personally, it doesn't interest me at all, as we're happy enough with a Leaf for tootling around town; I'm more keen on a comparatively affordable, decently sized and ranged BEV of say a Mazda 6 /RAV 4 size - ie the replacement to the typical 'main family car' (eg, must have decent boot space). I await the Model Y with interest, but hopefully other manufacturers will also start to provide offerings in this space.


Obraik
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  #2424342 20-Feb-2020 09:46
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Mazda's PR is saying they went with a smaller battery because it's "better for the environment", based on a rather flawed argument. It seems like they're spinning this PR so it doesn't impact sales of their new diesel powered Mazda 3.

 

I don't really have a problem with short ranged vehicles but I do have a problem with the spin. I also think short range vehicles are going to have to be priced accordingly so as long as it's priced around the same as a Leaf or MG then that's fine. If it's the cost of a Kona then that isn't going to work.


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