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Obraik
785 posts

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  #2425994 23-Feb-2020 20:21
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GV27:

 

I guess it comes down to priorities - do we want to use limited government funds to give to people who can afford to buy a new car, especially if it's going to be funded by making (presumably) older cheaper cars more expensive? 

 

You'll have a hard time convincing many people that's equitable. 

 

 

The funds came from the penalties incurred from those buying new high emission vehicles, not from general taxes.


kingdragonfly
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  #2426002 23-Feb-2020 20:44
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It's a bit of a moot point arguing about the freebate. It's not Trump-got-elected level of disappointment.

I have to agree with previous posters: f__k you Winston. You are among one of the misguided Boomers who got theirs, and will die without remorse, upon on bags of senior gold cards, giving next generations a big one finger salute.

I'm not saying all Boomers are bad, but there are some.

Yeah, just disappointed.

 
 
 
 


kingdragonfly
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  #2426036 23-Feb-2020 21:12
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Radio-Controlled Tesla Cybertruck Comes with Cracked-Window Decal

The Hot Wheels RC Cybertruck is ready for pre-orders and will ship in December, way ahead of the full-size Tesla version.

Car And Driver By Roberto Baldwin

Can’t wait for your Tesla Cybertruck to arrive? Well, Mattel has decided to fill the weird-looking sci-fi-truck gap in your life with two radio-controlled (RC) Cybertrucks available for pre-order right now, with delivery in December of this year. Sure, it's a long time to wait for a toy. But it’ll be under the tree quicker than the actual Cybertruck (which starts production in late 2021) will be in anybody's garage.

...For the hard-core Tesla fanatic, the NZ $630 1:10 scale RC Cybertruck will not only ship at the same time as the smaller Hot Wheels–size version, but it will also come with a reusable shattered-glass decal. You can relive the Tesla launch event in your own home without trying to figure out where to buy a softball-sized piece of metal.

tdgeek
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  #2426125 24-Feb-2020 07:08
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Obraik:

 

Grunta47:

 

You can’t really compare Norway to NZ as there are a huge number of differences, but two really stand out

 

- a higher than average wage.
- A large percentage of ICE cars sold in Norway were higher cost cars (Volvo, etc), especially when considering their harsh winter driving conditions. Changing to an EV was not that much of an increase for most buyers.

 

But the most important, most of the has been financed through Norway’s large oil exports. A bit hypocritical really.

 

 

It wasn't really a comparison between NZ and Norway but a discussion of "do incentives influence" and for Norway the answer is clearly yes, they do.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, Norways subsidies and those extras you mentioned are a lot. Its a great package. You wont get that here. Personally I don't see an 8k subsidy is a world breaker for me on a 60k to 80k car. Some will and will hang out for the last cent though


Grunta47
51 posts

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  #2426146 24-Feb-2020 09:12
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MarkH67:

 

Wait, which of those things required funding?

 

My understanding is that Norway gets a big gain in funding from an investment fund (from money invested that had been received from the sale of oil) which presumably means they can take in less tax.  But the EV incentives are about taking in less tax rather than giving oil money to EV buyers.  If we had the taxes on new cars that Norway does then we could also exempt EVs from those taxes as well as having money to finance other incentives, I'm not sure how we would be unable to do exactly what they have done, even without the oil money they have.

 

 

If you give away large subsidies then the money to cover that loss of revenue has to come from somewhere. if EV's are not paying road user tax and sales tax then this is a huge loss of revenue for the government.

 

As you noted, the investment fund (from the sale of oil) would be offsetting the reduction in tax income, which is totally smoke and mirror accounting. At the end of the day the sale of oil is enabling Norway to have a large uptake of EV's.

 

 

 

 


jarledb
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  #2426345 24-Feb-2020 14:46
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Grunta47:

 

As you noted, the investment fund (from the sale of oil) would be offsetting the reduction in tax income, which is totally smoke and mirror accounting. At the end of the day the sale of oil is enabling Norway to have a large uptake of EV's.

 

 

While probably not completely untrue, it's not correct either. Norway has more than one income stream, oil and gas only accounts for 20% of the economy.

 

Norway also effectively have a system in place that is very much like the feebate system that was proposed for NZ: Cars with big engines and high CO2 emissions pay a much higher tax on import than more environmentally friendly ICE cars.

 

I think it's time that NZ also adds import tax on cars that taxes CO2 emissions.


afe66
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  #2426370 24-Feb-2020 15:26
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Norway also has had a luxury car tax for decades so removing the car tax off evs is more palatable vrs introducing a tax on non evs.

 
 
 
 


jarledb
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  #2426676 24-Feb-2020 22:27
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afe66: Norway also has had a luxury car tax for decades so removing the car tax off evs is more palatable vrs introducing a tax on non evs.

 

No need to introduce it, it's already in place.

 

New taxes are introduced all the time, a tax on CO2 emissions on cars would not be the end of life in NZ.


wellygary
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  #2426721 25-Feb-2020 08:56
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jarledb:

 

afe66: Norway also has had a luxury car tax for decades so removing the car tax off evs is more palatable vrs introducing a tax on non evs.

 

No need to introduce it, it's already in place.

 

New taxes are introduced all the time, a tax on CO2 emissions on cars would not be the end of life in NZ.

 

 

One exists already,

 

Iits called the ETS, now people will argue its done absolutely nothing to curb behaviour, but if the unit price went from $25/tonne to $250/tonne, it would certainly have an impact, - as well as creating a stampede to every pine nursery in the country....


afe66
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  #2426811 25-Feb-2020 11:35
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If there is a luxury car tax in nz it's not well known and so I'd argue the general public doesn't consider there to be one.

I've never heard of someone saying I bought car x rather than car y because its below the luxury car tax band.

wellygary
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  #2426818 25-Feb-2020 11:44
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afe66: If there is a luxury car tax in nz it's not well known and so I'd argue the general public doesn't consider there to be one.

I've never heard of someone saying I bought car x rather than car y because its below the luxury car tax band.

 

 

 

No, the ETS is not a luxury car tax, its a de -facto Tax on Co2


jarledb
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  #2426920 25-Feb-2020 13:42
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afe66: If there is a luxury car tax in nz it's not well known and so I'd argue the general public doesn't consider there to be one.

 

That's the confusion that arise when talking about two different countries. Was talking about Norway, and then in the second part of my answer I said that there is no reason not to add it in New Zealand.

 

 


wellygary
5010 posts

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  #2427457 26-Feb-2020 13:40
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This is a pretty damning review of the Government's action (or inaction) on EVs

 

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/26/1052384/this-generations-nuclear-free-moment

 

It also confirms that they have even walked away from the agreement between Labour and NZ First on electrifying the Government fleet by 2025,  and the commitment now only applies to new government vehicles post 2025...

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2427501 26-Feb-2020 14:00
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wellygary:

 

This is a pretty damning review of the Government's action (or inaction) on EVs

 

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/26/1052384/this-generations-nuclear-free-moment

 

It also confirms that they have even walked away from the agreement between Labour and NZ First on electrifying the Government fleet by 2025,  and the commitment now only applies to new government vehicles post 2025...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has the Government scrapped the Feebate Scheme?  Last I heard Peters blocked it, and Shaw said they will take it to the election. So its get Peters out, so that and possible the other options can in fact go ahead.

 

But right now in NZ. Greens and Labour want the Feebate scheme.

 

NZF doesnt as it affects Northland farmers, National doesn't as its yet another tax and its punitive, Treasury doenst as it doenst reduce emisisons much

 

Its not really the Government scrapped it.

 

I don't follow this one  "Out of 15,766 vehicles the Government owns, just 82 of them are electric. Another 754 are hybrid. Since the last quarter, the fleet has added four electric vehicles, 240 hybrids and 49 fossil fuel vehicles."

 

Was the Govt supposed to sell its 15,700 ICE vehcles and replace them with EV's? There isn't 15,700 EV's available for sale right now I'd suggest. One day,. and soon hopefully , but not right now. They added 293 vehicles. Only 49 were ICE. Sounds very good to me. Yes most were hybrids, thats prpobbaly range/time issues and availability issues.


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2427508 26-Feb-2020 14:05
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wellygary:

 

This is a pretty damning review of the Government's action (or inaction) on EVs

 

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/26/1052384/this-generations-nuclear-free-moment

 

It also confirms that they have even walked away from the agreement between Labour and NZ First on electrifying the Government fleet by 2025,  and the commitment now only applies to new government vehicles post 2025...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, that article is pretty bang on really. So far, it's really all been talk when it comes to NZ actively doing anything to reduce transport emissions.


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