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jfanning
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  #2427519 26-Feb-2020 14:13
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

I don't follow this one  "Out of 15,766 vehicles the Government owns, just 82 of them are electric. Another 754 are hybrid. Since the last quarter, the fleet has added four electric vehicles, 240 hybrids and 49 fossil fuel vehicles."

 

Was the Govt supposed to sell its 15,700 ICE vehcles and replace them with EV's? There isn't 15,700 EV's available for sale right now I'd suggest. One day,. and soon hopefully , but not right now. They added 293 vehicles. Only 49 were ICE. Sounds very good to me. Yes most were hybrids, thats prpobbaly range/time issues and availability issues.

 

 

 

 

That was part of the agreement they made to make the entire Government fleet emissions-free by mid-2025, which was scrapped quietly last year.

 

 

 

Most of those vehicles will be leased, so would be replaced with new ones every three years or so.


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2427527 26-Feb-2020 14:25
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jfanning:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

I don't follow this one  "Out of 15,766 vehicles the Government owns, just 82 of them are electric. Another 754 are hybrid. Since the last quarter, the fleet has added four electric vehicles, 240 hybrids and 49 fossil fuel vehicles."

 

Was the Govt supposed to sell its 15,700 ICE vehcles and replace them with EV's? There isn't 15,700 EV's available for sale right now I'd suggest. One day,. and soon hopefully , but not right now. They added 293 vehicles. Only 49 were ICE. Sounds very good to me. Yes most were hybrids, thats prpobbaly range/time issues and availability issues.

 

 

 

 

That was part of the agreement they made to make the entire Government fleet emissions-free by mid-2025, which was scrapped quietly last year.

 

 

 

Most of those vehicles will be leased, so would be replaced with new ones every three years or so.

 

 

Ok. Do you have details on why it was scrapped. Did Labour scrap it, Greens scrap it or NZF blocked it?


wellygary
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  #2427536 26-Feb-2020 14:36
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tdgeek:

 

Ok. Do you have details on why it was scrapped. Did Labour scrap it, Greens scrap it or NZF blocked it?

 

 

NZFirst blocked it, no reason has been given.... This was on NZFirst's FB on Friday, After National claimed they were the reason it died..

 




Batman
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  #2427544 26-Feb-2020 14:51
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apparently Boris Johnson has passed a something to ban ICE and HYBRIDs from 2035 in the UK


tripper1000
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  #2427548 26-Feb-2020 14:56
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jfanning: 
tdgeek: I don't follow this one  "Out of 15,766 vehicles the Government owns, just 82 of them are electric. Another 754 are hybrid. Since the last quarter, the fleet has added four electric vehicles, 240 hybrids and 49 fossil fuel vehicles."

 

Was the Govt supposed to sell its 15,700 ICE vehcles and replace them with EV's? There isn't 15,700 EV's available for sale right now I'd suggest. One day,. and soon hopefully , but not right now. They added 293 vehicles. Only 49 were ICE. Sounds very good to me. Yes most were hybrids, thats prpobbaly range/time issues and availability issues. 

 

That was part of the agreement they made to make the entire Government fleet emissions-free by mid-2025, which was scrapped quietly last year.

 

Most of those vehicles will be leased, so would be replaced with new ones every three years or so. 

 

This is a missed opportunity - all those ex-lease vehicles become affordable cars for people without the means to buy brand new. If the Govt was rolling over hybrids and electric cars ever 3 years, firstly it provides a source of affordable environmental friendly cars for "hard working kiwi families", secondly it motivates the brands to have those options available new in N.Z. in order to compete for the government fleets and improves cost reductions through scales of economy. 


tdgeek
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  #2427549 26-Feb-2020 14:59
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Batman:

 

apparently Boris Johnson has passed a something to ban ICE and HYBRIDs from 2035 in the UK

 

 

Thats all well and good but its a bit stupid. It sounds good but thats all it is. What needs to be said is we will be banning ICE. No one knows when that can happen. 2035 may be too soon, or its all on for 2030, or 2027 we will ban two sectors more to come etc. Or you can play safe and say 2060, which is equally stupid. When a few ducks line up, that have to, then its all on. No one can date that right now 


tdgeek
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  #2427554 26-Feb-2020 15:08
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tripper1000:

 

 

 

Most of those vehicles will be leased, so would be replaced with new ones every three years or so. 

 

This is a missed opportunity - all those ex-lease vehicles become affordable cars for people without the means to buy brand new. If the Govt was rolling over hybrids and electric cars ever 3 years, firstly it provides a source of affordable environmental friendly cars for "hard working kiwi families", secondly it motivates the brands to have those options available new in N.Z. in order to compete for the government fleets and improves cost reductions through scales of economy. 

 

 

100%. But I dont agree with the lost opportunity. There are 17000 electric cars here, 13000 hybrids and 4000 EV's, as at late 2019. This has built up over quite a few years. I doubt that we could buy that 15000 cars as EV's if we wanted to. Most of the cars in NZ were used imports, Tesla's are the main sales right now, we dont seem to have a lot of new EV's ready to register this afternoon, let alone in the previous two years when it was mainly or possibly only the Leaf that was an option. And Prius for the hybrid side. I also think you would find that a business or Government wants to buy these cars as they are cost savers, but you cant buy them if they arent here.




jfanning
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  #2427564 26-Feb-2020 15:27
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Ok. Do you have details on why it was scrapped. Did Labour scrap it, Greens scrap it or NZF blocked it?

 

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/116395302/government-abandons-electric-vehicle-target-for-public-service-fleet

 

 

 

Not much details but it was quietly reported back in October


jfanning
437 posts

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  #2427565 26-Feb-2020 15:28
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wellygary:

 

tdgeek:

 

Ok. Do you have details on why it was scrapped. Did Labour scrap it, Greens scrap it or NZF blocked it?

 

 

NZFirst blocked it, no reason has been given.... This was on NZFirst's FB on Friday, After National claimed they were the reason it died..

 

 

 

 

 

This was different, there was a scheme to make the majority of the government fleet emissions free, this was canned last year


frankv
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  #2427569 26-Feb-2020 15:36
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tripper1000:

 

This is a missed opportunity - all those ex-lease vehicles become affordable cars for people without the means to buy brand new. If the Govt was rolling over hybrids and electric cars ever 3 years, firstly it provides a source of affordable environmental friendly cars for "hard working kiwi families", secondly it motivates the brands to have those options available new in N.Z. in order to compete for the government fleets and improves cost reductions through scales of economy. 

 

 

Presumably in the next year or two, 754 + 82 ex-Govt-lease hybrids & electrics will come on the market, and the following year another 240 * 4? hybrids.

 

But this doesn't add up... at 289 cars per quarter, it will take 54 quarters = 13 years to replace the whole 15,700 fleet. To replace them in 3 years, you need to change 5,233 cars per year.

 

 


wellygary
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  #2427570 26-Feb-2020 15:38
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jfanning:

 

This was different, there was a scheme to make the majority of the government fleet emissions free, this was canned last year

 

 

Oh, you are talking about the Government fleet promise,  basically it would have come down to the cabinet having to authorise extra $$$ (new EVs being more expensive that ICE vehicles)

 

I also suspect a number of political advisers had been whispering in Minsters ears that it would open them up to attack from parties like ACT and groups like the Taxpayers Unions running Social Media ads that the Government was paying out big bucks for public servants to drive around in EVs while "Joe Voter" can only afford a used Toyota Corolla, -


frankv
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  #2427578 26-Feb-2020 15:55
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tdgeek:

 

tripper1000:

 

Most of those vehicles will be leased, so would be replaced with new ones every three years or so. 

 

This is a missed opportunity - all those ex-lease vehicles become affordable cars for people without the means to buy brand new. If the Govt was rolling over hybrids and electric cars ever 3 years, firstly it provides a source of affordable environmental friendly cars for "hard working kiwi families", secondly it motivates the brands to have those options available new in N.Z. in order to compete for the government fleets and improves cost reductions through scales of economy. 

 

 

100%. But I dont agree with the lost opportunity.

 

 

Not to mention that dumping 10,000 extra cars on the NZ used car market is going to depress prices, leaving some "hard working kiwi families" finding that the car they bought 3 years ago is suddenly unsellable. And of course this would be a nasty surprise for whoever leases cars to the Govt... the resale value on the cars would be much lower than expected.

 

And Govt departments needing to install *all* the infrastructure they need to support EVs in one year.

 

 


wellygary
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  #2427581 26-Feb-2020 16:04
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frankv:

 

Not to mention that dumping 10,000 extra cars on the NZ used car market is going to depress prices, leaving some "hard working kiwi families" finding that the car they bought 3 years ago is suddenly unsellable.

 

 

Dropping 10K used vehicles wouldn't have that much impact on the Used Market,  in an average year around 150K used vehicles are added to the fleet,  ( + 120K new cars and 50K new uts/vans)

 

Given they will be only 3-5 years old and have likely done only a few miles , its more likely they would be competition for new Vehicles,

 

I suspect the new car importers/dealers may have had a hand in squashing it,


jfanning
437 posts

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  #2427587 26-Feb-2020 16:16
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wellygary:

 

 

 

Oh, you are talking about the Government fleet promise,  basically it would have come down to the cabinet having to authorise extra $$$ (new EVs being more expensive that ICE vehicles)

 

I also suspect a number of political advisers had been whispering in Minsters ears that it would open them up to attack from parties like ACT and groups like the Taxpayers Unions running Social Media ads that the Government was paying out big bucks for public servants to drive around in EVs while "Joe Voter" can only afford a used Toyota Corolla, -

 

 

 

 

Yes I was talking about that, as that is what was referenced.  Also a lot of those vehicles are leased, so while the opex is higher, it isn't an all at once cost.

 

 

 

This wasn't just public servants, this is all government agencies (large difference), and it would have been the best opportunity to lead from the top


Ge0rge
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  #2427589 26-Feb-2020 16:28
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tdgeek:

wellygary:


This is a pretty damning review of the Government's action (or inaction) on EVs


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/26/1052384/this-generations-nuclear-free-moment


It also confirms that they have even walked away from the agreement between Labour and NZ First on electrifying the Government fleet by 2025,  and the commitment now only applies to new government vehicles post 2025...


 


 



Has the Government scrapped the Feebate Scheme?  Last I heard Peters blocked it, and Shaw said they will take it to the election. So its get Peters out, so that and possible the other options can in fact go ahead.


But right now in NZ. Greens and Labour want the Feebate scheme.


NZF doesnt as it affects Northland farmers, National doesn't as its yet another tax and its punitive, Treasury doenst as it doenst reduce emisisons much


Its not really the Government scrapped it.


I don't follow this one  "Out of 15,766 vehicles the Government owns, just 82 of them are electric. Another 754 are hybrid. Since the last quarter, the fleet has added four electric vehicles, 240 hybrids and 49 fossil fuel vehicles."


Was the Govt supposed to sell its 15,700 ICE vehcles and replace them with EV's? There isn't 15,700 EV's available for sale right now I'd suggest. One day,. and soon hopefully , but not right now. They added 293 vehicles. Only 49 were ICE. Sounds very good to me. Yes most were hybrids, thats prpobbaly range/time issues and availability issues.



What is counted as a government vehicle? Police?.Defence force? Some of the vehicles owned by them are pretty specialist and there certainly isn't an ev or hybrid alternative. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the government working towards changing what they do have, but I don't believe that they'll be able to change out the entire fleet, even if they wanted to, as there just aren't the vehicles available - numbers or variants.

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