EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2427590 26-Feb-2020 16:30

frankv:

Not to mention that dumping 10,000 extra cars on the NZ used car market is going to depress prices, leaving some "hard working kiwi families" finding that the car they bought 3 years ago is suddenly unsellable. And of course this would be a nasty surprise for whoever leases cars to the Govt... the resale value on the cars would be much lower than expected.

And Govt departments needing to install *all* the infrastructure they need to support EVs in one year.

It wasn't expected they'd do it one big hit, but as leases come up for renewal that they would be replaced with an EV.

Do "hard working kiwi families" replace their cars every 3 years?

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jfanning

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Ultimate Geek

#2427597 26-Feb-2020 16:45

Ge0rge:

What is counted as a government vehicle? Police?.Defence force? Some of the vehicles owned by them are pretty specialist and there certainly isn't an ev or hybrid alternative. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the government working towards changing what they do have, but I don't believe that they'll be able to change out the entire fleet, even if they wanted to, as there just aren't the vehicles available - numbers or variants.

Here is some help for you.

https://www.procurement.govt.nz/broader-outcomes/reducing-emissions-and-waste/reducing-government-fleet-emissions/

Also, why do you think they would do 15000 vehicles in one go? for starters the leased ones will be in contact, so can only be changed when that comes up

Ge0rge

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#2427601 26-Feb-2020 16:51

Thanks for the link. Interesting that police and fire feature but not defence.

I never said in one go. But my statement about there not being enough vehicles still stands.

Batman

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#2427673 26-Feb-2020 18:21

https://www.am-online.com/news/market-insight/2020/02/04/uk-new-car-sales-will-go-ev-only-by-2035-says-boris-johnson

tdgeek

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#2427681 26-Feb-2020 18:40

frankv:

Not to mention that dumping 10,000 extra cars on the NZ used car market is going to depress prices, leaving some "hard working kiwi families" finding that the car they bought 3 years ago is suddenly unsellable. And of course this would be a nasty surprise for whoever leases cars to the Govt... the resale value on the cars would be much lower than expected.

And Govt departments needing to install *all* the infrastructure they need to support EVs in one year.

I feel the infrastructure is no biggie. Dumping the cars? Not sure. But my point was are the EV's available? I dont think so. As an accountant by trade I would have got every possible car to EV or hybrid status to reduce costs. But they have to be there to buy. National I think aimed for 64000 EV's by this or next year? Great, but are they in production and delivered to NZ? I doubt it. My only grump would be if NZF was involved with the numbers. Sept 2020 needs to solve that.

tdgeek

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#2427683 26-Feb-2020 18:46

Ge0rge:What is counted as a government vehicle? Police?.Defence force? Some of the vehicles owned by them are pretty specialist and there certainly isn't an ev or hybrid alternative. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the government working towards changing what they do have, but I don't believe that they'll be able to change out the entire fleet, even if they wanted to, as there just aren't the vehicles available - numbers or variants.

Exactly. But I didn't mention that in so many words, as that comes across as anti EV here. As I said, the last count was highly favoured to electric, but mainly hybrids. 1. Not enough EV's to buy? 2. A number of use cases won't support them yet? The number of vehicles labeled, is about the total number that are here now after many years. They dont come form thin air.

Tesla's you order and wait, take the Kona EV, can I order 15000 and get them next month? I doubt it.

But the Govt has failed by not being open and saying why. If I was the CEO of a large company, or the Vehicle Manager, I would have to say why.

tdgeek

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#2427686 26-Feb-2020 18:48

Obraik:

frankv:

Not to mention that dumping 10,000 extra cars on the NZ used car market is going to depress prices, leaving some "hard working kiwi families" finding that the car they bought 3 years ago is suddenly unsellable. And of course this would be a nasty surprise for whoever leases cars to the Govt... the resale value on the cars would be much lower than expected.

And Govt departments needing to install *all* the infrastructure they need to support EVs in one year.

It wasn't expected they'd do it one big hit, but as leases come up for renewal that they would be replaced with an EV.

Do "hard working kiwi families" replace their cars every 3 years?

Agree, but they needed to be transparent, and say why. Then its no issue. But now its a "silently moved the target" Hence this thread and the requisite media attention.

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PolicyGuy

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#2427724 26-Feb-2020 20:20

Ge0rge: Thanks for the link. Interesting that police and fire feature but not defence.

The eligible fleet of Defence Force vehicles is quite small, some dozens to maybe a couple of hundred.

You will be delighted to hear that hybrid is all the go in army combat vehicles at the moment, but for reasons that may surprise you: they can loiter ICE off while observing 'stuff' for an extended period, or sneak very quietly from one place to another. No noise & no IR signature is very desirable for light combat vehicles. Also nobody is against better range for the same fuel load. :)
You can be pretty sure that when the LAVs are given a mid life upgrade or replaced, the new / refurbished vehicle will be a serial hybrid with electric drive motors in all the wheels.

Edit: Add range comment

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2427825 27-Feb-2020 02:06

tdgeek:

Tesla's you order and wait, take the Kona EV, can I order 15000 and get them next month? I doubt it.

Maybe you couldn't get 15,000 next month, but why is that relevant?

If the NZ Government wanted 15,000 EVs over the next 3 years then that would be 100% possible. I'd be interested to know what use cases would rule out a Tesla Model 3 or a Hyundai Kona. In particular, how many of the 15,000 would not be alright to replace with any available EV? I would think that a Model 3 performance would make a pretty decent police car, how many KMs would they do per shift?

tdgeek

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#2427836 27-Feb-2020 06:36

MarkH67:

tdgeek:

Tesla's you order and wait, take the Kona EV, can I order 15000 and get them next month? I doubt it.

Maybe you couldn't get 15,000 next month, but why is that relevant?

If the NZ Government wanted 15,000 EVs over the next 3 years then that would be 100% possible. I'd be interested to know what use cases would rule out a Tesla Model 3 or a Hyundai Kona. In particular, how many of the 15,000 would not be alright to replace with any available EV? I would think that a Model 3 performance would make a pretty decent police car, how many KMs would they do per shift?

I doubt 15000 Tesla's/Kona's would be available to order, even in 3 years. Possibly the next 3 years but not the last 3.

SaltyNZ

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#2427953 27-Feb-2020 08:21

It's been pretty disappointing overall. The only thing we can do to get it moving again (no pun intended) is to ensure that NZF don't get to make the rules this time round. Labour may be tepid but National certainly won't do jack. Going to be an uphill battle though.

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tdgeek

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#2427958 27-Feb-2020 08:29

SaltyNZ:

It's been pretty disappointing overall. The only thing we can do to get it moving again (no pun intended) is to ensure that NZF don't get to make the rules this time round. Labour may be tepid but National certainly won't do jack. Going to be an uphill battle though.

NZF has to go. Or Labour/Greens dont select NZF as a coalition partner if that will scuttle key deals, or it will drag more cash out of the budget. National can have them

wellygary

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#2428057 27-Feb-2020 09:40

tdgeek:

NZF has to go. Or Labour/Greens dont select NZF as a coalition partner if that will scuttle key deals, or it will drag more cash out of the budget. National can have them

For that to happen there needs to be a significant increase in the vote for Labour/ Greens,

On current voting intentions, If NZ First make is back to Parliament they get to call the shots...

Obraik

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#2428058 27-Feb-2020 09:42

MarkH67:

Maybe you couldn't get 15,000 next month, but why is that relevant?

If the NZ Government wanted 15,000 EVs over the next 3 years then that would be 100% possible. I'd be interested to know what use cases would rule out a Tesla Model 3 or a Hyundai Kona. In particular, how many of the 15,000 would not be alright to replace with any available EV? I would think that a Model 3 performance would make a pretty decent police car, how many KMs would they do per shift?

There are a few Police departments in the US that have added a Tesla to their fleet, such as this one. I don't know if an EV would suit every Police car duty but I think something with the range of a Model 3 would probably be plenty for the majority. I just don't see our Police departments getting away with spending $90k per car.

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SaltyNZ

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#2428063 27-Feb-2020 09:49

Obraik:

MarkH67:

Maybe you couldn't get 15,000 next month, but why is that relevant?

If the NZ Government wanted 15,000 EVs over the next 3 years then that would be 100% possible. I'd be interested to know what use cases would rule out a Tesla Model 3 or a Hyundai Kona. In particular, how many of the 15,000 would not be alright to replace with any available EV? I would think that a Model 3 performance would make a pretty decent police car, how many KMs would they do per shift?

There are a few Police departments in the US that have added a Tesla to their fleet, such as this one. I don't know if an EV would suit every Police car duty but I think something with the range of a Model 3 would probably be plenty for the majority. I just don't see our Police departments getting away with spending $90k per car.

Well they won't be buying any more Commodores ...

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