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wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2428317 27-Feb-2020 15:27
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tdgeek:

 

djtOtago:

 

Of course the police buget will alow for $40,000 vehicles to be replaced by $75,000 vehicles.

 

 

If they have lower running costs, I see no issue there. Lower fuel costs and lower maintenance. Plus less time off road. PR value would be huge IMHO "If it works well for the Police then it should work well for me" that type of thing. There is a lot of "but" around with the masses perception of EV's

 

 

As has been traversed back and forward and up and down in this thread, on Current Economic metrics EVs are still more expensive than ICE Vehicles, even when lower Opex is factored in....

 

( there would also likely be a reasonable Capex in the first year or so to upgrade power supplies at local cop shops, charging 20 EVs at once even on regular AC 3-phase is still going to be an issue..)

 

Additionally EVs are still heavily supply constrained meaning there is little ability to leverage discounts, (which large ICE fleet buyers like the police traditionally do)

 

The big thing to watch will be the Ministerial Limo contract, ( which expired in late 2019) they are high end, so there is more $$$ to play with, - Although they trialled a BMW 7 Series PHEV a couple of years ago, but didn't like it much, as found on long trips it was more expensive to run as it was Petrol as opposed to the regular Diesel that the rest of the BMW fleet is...

 

There were signs of an e-7series test car late last year,  but its no where near production....

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/382857/bmw-i7-electric-spy-photos/

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2428319 27-Feb-2020 15:36
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Yes supply is the big issue which was my point earlier on. Some put it across as why arent these 15000 vehicles all replaced


 
 
 
 


Technofreak
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  #2428324 27-Feb-2020 16:14
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tdgeek:

 

Technofreak:

 

Aren't all coalition governments effectively a minority government? No party has a majority to govern on their own therefore they need a partner. 

 

 

They can get over 50% of the seats by themselves.

 

 

The fact is they couldn't get over 50% last time, therefore we have a minority government. One of the "features" of MMP is the high probability of a minority government. For all of it's touted benefits MMP certainly hamstrings progress sometimes.





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Handle9
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  #2428326 27-Feb-2020 16:24
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Technofreak:

Aren't all coalition governments effectively a minority government? No party has a majority to govern on their own therefore they need a partner. 




A coalition isn't necessarily a minority government. The Labour / NZ First coalition is a minority government but has a confidence and supply agreement with the Greens.

Basically a coalition involves fully integrated decision making and has a highly formal agreement between the parties. A confidence and supply agreement says that the outside party will support the government on matters of confidence and supply (IE confidence votes and funding votes in the house) but are free to vote however they like on other matters.

tdgeek
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  #2428380 27-Feb-2020 17:33
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Handle9:
Technofreak:

 

Aren't all coalition governments effectively a minority government? No party has a majority to govern on their own therefore they need a partner. 

 




A coalition isn't necessarily a minority government. The Labour / NZ First coalition is a minority government but has a confidence and supply agreement with the Greens.

Basically a coalition involves fully integrated decision making and has a highly formal agreement between the parties. A confidence and supply agreement says that the outside party will support the government on matters of confidence and supply (IE confidence votes and funding votes in the house) but are free to vote however they like on other matters.

 

It seems the opposite in practice though. Greens seem a loyal ally, NZF is an unreliable ally, even though as a coalition partner, Labour and NZF should be one. 


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2428431 27-Feb-2020 19:26
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wellygary:

 

As has been traversed back and forward and up and down in this thread, on Current Economic metrics EVs are still more expensive than ICE Vehicles, even when lower Opex is factored in....

 

( there would also likely be a reasonable Capex in the first year or so to upgrade power supplies at local cop shops, charging 20 EVs at once even on regular AC 3-phase is still going to be an issue..)

 

Additionally EVs are still heavily supply constrained meaning there is little ability to leverage discounts, (which large ICE fleet buyers like the police traditionally do)

 

The big thing to watch will be the Ministerial Limo contract, ( which expired in late 2019) they are high end, so there is more $$$ to play with, - Although they trialled a BMW 7 Series PHEV a couple of years ago, but didn't like it much, as found on long trips it was more expensive to run as it was Petrol as opposed to the regular Diesel that the rest of the BMW fleet is...

 

There were signs of an e-7series test car late last year,  but its no where near production....

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/382857/bmw-i7-electric-spy-photos/

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Model S would be a decent 7 Series replacement.


jfanning
409 posts

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  #2428606 28-Feb-2020 09:16
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Obraik:

 

The Model S would be a decent 7 Series replacement.

 

 

 

 

At the moment Tesla are not a registered supplier of motor vehicles to the government


 
 
 
 


Geektastic
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  #2428630 28-Feb-2020 09:47
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Obraik:

 

wellygary:

 

As has been traversed back and forward and up and down in this thread, on Current Economic metrics EVs are still more expensive than ICE Vehicles, even when lower Opex is factored in....

 

( there would also likely be a reasonable Capex in the first year or so to upgrade power supplies at local cop shops, charging 20 EVs at once even on regular AC 3-phase is still going to be an issue..)

 

Additionally EVs are still heavily supply constrained meaning there is little ability to leverage discounts, (which large ICE fleet buyers like the police traditionally do)

 

The big thing to watch will be the Ministerial Limo contract, ( which expired in late 2019) they are high end, so there is more $$$ to play with, - Although they trialled a BMW 7 Series PHEV a couple of years ago, but didn't like it much, as found on long trips it was more expensive to run as it was Petrol as opposed to the regular Diesel that the rest of the BMW fleet is...

 

There were signs of an e-7series test car late last year,  but its no where near production....

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/382857/bmw-i7-electric-spy-photos/

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Model S would be a decent 7 Series replacement.

 

 

 

 

From experience, Ministers do go to places where charging a Tesla may range from almost impossible to very slow whereas filling a 740iL with fuel would be easy. Ministers would not be impressed if their rides were not ready on time or replacements had to be summoned.

 

Ministerial cars also have to have odd things in the criterion used to choose them, such as their ability to be used to get Ministers out of potentially lethal encounters in a hurry which might be complicated if you cannot easily ensure that the car has adequate 'fuel' at all times. (Yes, I realise assassination attempts on government Ministers are not common - it is nevertheless part of the process).

 

I would say some form of hybrid would be acceptable but for now probably they would not accept full electric due to lack of flexibility.






Obraik
785 posts

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  #2428632 28-Feb-2020 09:49
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jfanning:

 

Obraik:

 

The Model S would be a decent 7 Series replacement.

 

 

 

 

At the moment Tesla are not a registered supplier of motor vehicles to the government

 

 

I didn't expect they would be...but maybe the government could fix that 🤷🏻‍♂️


jfanning
409 posts

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  #2428645 28-Feb-2020 10:08
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Obraik:

 

 

 

I didn't expect they would be...but maybe the government could fix that 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

 

Nothing to fix, if Tesla want to be one, then that would involve Tesla applying to be, the same as other vehicle manufacturers do


wellygary
5011 posts

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  #2428650 28-Feb-2020 10:14
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Geektastic:

 

Ministerial cars also have to have odd things in the criterion used to choose them, such as their ability to be used to get Ministers out of potentially lethal encounters in a hurry which might be complicated if you cannot easily ensure that the car has adequate 'fuel' at all times. (Yes, I realise assassination attempts on government Ministers are not common - it is nevertheless part of the process).

 

 

The "bog standard" silver 730s are all pretty much stock,

 

They have 2 "specials" , 750s they retained from the former fleet, that include around 1500Kg of armouring ( including glass) and other security upgrades...

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/108203712/why-are-harry-and-meghan-riding-around-in-an-old-bmw

 

 

 

 


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2428654 28-Feb-2020 10:31
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Geektastic:

 

From experience, Ministers do go to places where charging a Tesla may range from almost impossible to very slow whereas filling a 740iL with fuel would be easy. Ministers would not be impressed if their rides were not ready on time or replacements had to be summoned.

 

Ministerial cars also have to have odd things in the criterion used to choose them, such as their ability to be used to get Ministers out of potentially lethal encounters in a hurry which might be complicated if you cannot easily ensure that the car has adequate 'fuel' at all times. (Yes, I realise assassination attempts on government Ministers are not common - it is nevertheless part of the process).

 

I would say some form of hybrid would be acceptable but for now probably they would not accept full electric due to lack of flexibility.

 

 

Firstly, the Model S has 600km of range. That's more than adequate for the trips a minister will be doing in their Crown vehicle. I don't imagine they even do half that distance before they choose to fly. The test they do to evaluate the vehicles is between Wellington and Taihepe. The Model S can do that round trip without needing to be charged and still have plenty left over. Having said that, I also don't believe they're frequently going to locations where there isn't a nearby charger. ChargeNet is all over New Zealand.

 

I think a Model S is more than capable of getting a Minister out in a hurry, especially since as I mentioned "fuel" is a non-issue.


Obraik
785 posts

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  #2428655 28-Feb-2020 10:33
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jfanning:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

I didn't expect they would be...but maybe the government could fix that 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

 

Nothing to fix, if Tesla want to be one, then that would involve Tesla applying to be, the same as other vehicle manufacturers do

 

 

If that's true then that's ridiculous lol. Change will never happen if the government is relying on a company to come grovelling for a contract.


jfanning
409 posts

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  #2428760 28-Feb-2020 11:53
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Obraik:

 

 

 

If that's true then that's ridiculous lol. Change will never happen if the government is relying on a company to come grovelling for a contract.

 

 

 

 

So it is ridiculous that our Government has a robust documented procurement process?  They aren't a little business, they need processes around this, other companies including a number of other EV providers have no issue following the requirements to sell to the Government, why can't Tesla?


kingdragonfly
5127 posts

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  #2428766 28-Feb-2020 11:58
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wellygary:They have 2 "specials" , 750s they retained from the former fleet, that include around 1500Kg of armouring ( including glass) and other security upgrades...


https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/108203712/why-are-harry-and-meghan-riding-around-in-an-old-bmw



AS an interesting sidenote, the Tesla CyberTruck is going to be sold in Europe as an armoured vehicle, because it lacks any crumple zones.

I've heard it may be a pretty unsafe vehicle if you hit a tree, because little energy is being dissipated crumpling. Meaning if it hits like a tree, there will be a much faster deceleration than any regular passenger car.

AIrbags and seat belts can only do so much, and all that energy has to go somewhere.

It would be funny to see royalty using a Tesla Truck in the possible future, perhaps with a turret mounted mini-machine gun :)

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